Rideau Street: A Tale of Lost Opportunities

[J.OT13]

Since we were going way off topic on the 1451 Wellington Thread, I thought I'd start one for Rideau Street to talk about the past, the lost opportunities and the future.




http://www.pastottawa.com/comparison...king-east/225/

[J.OT13]

To continue our conversation;

Originally Posted by defishel

Wait, West Rideau doesn't have a CDP? East does, but I'm surprised nothing for this area would exist.

He's estranged from his father? Maybe I was raised with odd beliefs, but if I'm estranged from someone why should it matter if my relative works for a company that's screwing over the city (not that the father should be penalized for his son's work any way)? If there's any integrity and care for the community and city then he should have been stricter. Maybe even tried to convince Claridge to do something better, right?

Edit: So basically because of Fleury Claridge can hold his ward and Ottawa hostage, to get what they want without much retribution while he holds his position?

My bad, there is an East Rideau CDP, but it dates from 2005. Shows a streetcar (God no!) for Rideau in the future. Also note figure 9 on page 13 showing buildings of heritage/architectural value. It includes the restaurant proposed for demolition (with no opposition) at Cobourg/Rideau.

http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/doc.../con020328.pdf

And here is the 2005 CDP for Downtown Rideau.

http://ottawa.ca/en/official-plan-0/...ongress-centre

Very outdated, both of them.

And yes, even if he's estranged from his father, it is still considered a conflict of interest. I would like someone new with the balls to fight Claridge coming in. It's sad to say since they do come up with moments of brilliance like the Beth Shalom redevelopment, the 30 storey Somerset building and to an extent Tribeca and Icon.

[Urbanarchit]

We should post more photos here.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm not blaming Fleury (though I don't like the guy; think Ogilvy and Casino), but it would be nice to have someone who can face off with Claridge.

Ogilvy just needed a good interior cleanout and exterior restoration (could have used bricks and detailing from Besserer façade), but 0 structural work. That thing was solid as could be!

BTW, I'm starting a Rideau Street thread to continue this conversation.

He may not be completely to blame, but if the reason Claridge can't be touched is because of him then it's in his ward and the city's best interest to replace him with someone else who is willing to challenge them. Otherwise Claridge is, maybe unintentionally, holding us all hostage to bad architectural and urban design without penalty. But if he cares about the city and wins again then he needs to take a step up against Claridge.

I know my Nonna is sad to see Ogilvy go. She worked there when they moved back from Omaha.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

To continue our conversation;



My bad, there is an East Rideau CDP, but it dates from 2005. Shows a streetcar (God no!) for Rideau in the future.

http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/doc.../con020328.pdf

And here is the 2005 CDP for Downtown Rideau.

http://ottawa.ca/en/official-plan-0/...ongress-centre

Very outdated, both of them.

Hahaha, that drawing gets me, it's so bad. I think I heard that were some community meetings to make amendments to the East Rideau CDP.

[Uhuniau]

I would love to press the "detonate" buttons on those hideous skywalks.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

My bad, there is an East Rideau CDP, but it dates from 2005. Shows a streetcar (God no!) for Rideau in the future.

God no why not?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

God no why not?

Streetcars on Rideau would be a disaster. It's way to busy, dense and urban for streetcars. Rideau should be next on the list, along with bank, for a full fledged subway.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by defishel

Hahaha, that drawing gets me, it's so bad. I think I heard that were some community meetings to make amendments to the East Rideau CDP.

CDPs have come a long way from crude drawings to these new 3D computerized renderings showing future buildings. I love the Centretown CDP for that.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Streetcars on Rideau would be a disaster. It's way to busy, dense and urban for streetcars. Rideau should be next on the list, along with bank, for a full fledged subway.

Ever been to Toronto? Its streetcar routes are even busier, denser, and urbaner.

Ditto Vancouver's trolleybus routes.

There is nothing about Rideau that streetcars couldn't run on it, though I'd prefer an underground alignment for the Rideau-Montreal LRT west of about Notre-Dame Cemetery. But given that it won't be built in this lame, backwards-thinking, cheap suburban shell of a city until some time in the 25th century, who cares? Buses, overcrowded buses, with poorly-trained drivers who couldn't keep on a smooth trajectory if their lives depended on it, are good enough for the actual city of Ottawa; only the burbs are entitled to rail transit.

I wish the east side of downtown had a city councilor.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Ever been to Toronto? Its streetcar routes are even busier, denser, and urbaner.

Ditto Vancouver's trolleybus routes.

There is nothing about Rideau that streetcars couldn't run on it, though I'd prefer an underground alignment for the Rideau-Montreal LRT west of about Notre-Dame Cemetery. But given that it won't be built in this lame, backwards-thinking, cheap suburban shell of a city until some time in the 25th century, who cares? Buses, overcrowded buses, with poorly-trained drivers who couldn't keep on a smooth trajectory if their lives depended on it, are good enough for the actual city of Ottawa; only the burbs are entitled to rail transit.

I wish the east side of downtown had a city councilor.

But in TO, streetcars are a supplement to the subway. Why do you think they built the original Yonge Street line; overcrowded streetcar line, just like Rideau's have we kept the old system.

I just don't believe in building a system we removed 60 years ago. time to upgrade.

[lrt's friend]

At least Rideau is a wide corridor for surface LRT. Bank Street?? We would have to eliminate all curbside parking to even consider it.

There is not enough density on either street to possibly consider subways.

By the way, it is miracle that we are going to have even a short subway for a city this size. Unless everybody suddenly switches to transit because of some horrendous economic calamity, it will be a long, long time before a second subway is built.

[Doug]

Anyone have picks of Rideau from the days when it had the sliding glass enclosures over the sidewalks?

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Doug

Anyone have picks of Rideau from the days when it had the sliding glass enclosures over the sidewalks?

I found this one:

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Bank Street?? We would have to eliminate all curbside parking to even consider it.

I'm fine with this. Let's do this with most of the city, especially the Byward Market.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

But in TO, streetcars are a supplement to the subway. Why do you think they built the original Yonge Street line; overcrowded streetcar line, just like Rideau's have we kept the old system.

Huh?

I just don't believe in building a system we removed 60 years ago. time to upgrade.

Huh?

What does the fact we removed streetcars before have to do with anything?

[J.OT13]

Rideau façades 1950s.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Doyle+S...120/story.html

More Rideau from previous post;

Originally Posted by drawarc

Found these on Ebay:


George street with trolley right of way, 1973:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-SLI...item27d7cd60e4

Similar vantage point today:
https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll...75.68,,0,-2.57


Another pic of George street, 1973:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OTTAWA-BUS-S...item5d43354019

Today:
https://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll...,,1,-0.64&z=17


Postcard of Rideau street in front of Ogilvy's, with glass enclosures and an old Orion-Ikarus bus, mid 80s:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/OC-Transpo-A...item5d4321a58b

[S-Man]

I'm not blaming Fleury (though I don't like the guy; think Ogilvy and Casino)

Don't forget his Sandy-Hill student housing opposition!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

At least Rideau is a wide corridor for surface LRT. Bank Street?? We would have to eliminate all curbside parking to even consider it.

There is not enough density on either street to possibly consider subways.

Not as long as we keep freaking the fluck out about density and killer condos and dead vitamin-D deprived children, anyway.

We need to tie our transportation and land-use planning more tightly together. If they could capture, for a term, a portion of the increase in tax revenue that can be directly attributed to real transit development, the private sector would likely be interested in PPP real transit development in Canadian cities.

By the way, it is miracle that we are going to have even a short subway for a city this size. Unless everybody suddenly switches to transit because of some horrendous economic calamity, it will be a long, long time before a second subway is built.

And it's likely to be in Orleans before it's in any downtown neighbourhood (not including the CBD) because only the burbs deserve real transit in ass-backwards Ottawa.

But how about those awesome overcrowded 40-foot buses w00t w00t! It feels so awesome to be able to donate artic-allocations to suburban express routes. Every time I have to stand the whole 5 km from home to work on an overcrowded downtown route, I just think of the Kanatan and Barrhavener who I've donated a seat to, and I stop thinking of how hard it is for me to actually stand on a sardine-packed 40-foot tube being driven by an imbecile lead-footed driver in stop-and-go traffic.

Yay Ottawa.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Don't forget his Sandy-Hill student housing opposition!

That I actually agree with. proposal was too tall for the area and saw the demolition of a few nice old buildings.

Uhuniau, your right; with Stage 2, it's guaranteed Orleans will get rapid transit before Rideau. No doubt the new Transitways to Kanata will be converted to ORT before any urban RT is built downtown. And maybe, just maybe, they will extend the ORT to the Corel Centre AFTER it closes down.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by defishel

I found this one:

I heard about this Rideau Street bus mall but I'd never seen it before. This is so nasty! Gross. I can't believe any local elected official, or the NCC, ever let this happen to Rideau Street.