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  #121  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2019, 10:43 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
My bad, it's less nailed down than that:



Its located underneath the circular part of the Preston ped/cycling bridge on the west side of the Aqueduct District. Not to be confused with the larger optional arena/events centre they've located west of Preston, north of Albert, and south of the LRT.
Maybe Ottawa could finally get its chamber music hall ...
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  #122  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2019, 11:49 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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But I mean, what else do we put there? We all know what happens when you line up a museum in a park: an open, windy place that fills with people once or twice a year.

We need to have a vibrant, mixed-use community with DENSITY. Granted, the programming at the base of these dense buildings needs to be thought out.
Mid-rise. 6-10 floors.
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  #123  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 12:27 AM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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The only thing I really like about this plan is that they now have buildings fronting onto Wellington Street across from the museum instead of open space like in the RVL plan.
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  #124  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 12:59 AM
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NCC reveals LeBreton draft master plan, as the redesigning begins

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: November 21, 2019




Eight months after abandoning years of fruitless work and going back to the drawing board, the National Capital Commission has the concept map of a new plan for rebuilding LeBreton Flats.

Commissioners were lining up on Thursday to say that this time, it’s far better than all of the previous plans — with a better chance of actually being built.

Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson kept repeating that it has “wow factor,” though he has some suggestions, too.

The draft master concept plan shows areas of different types of development. It doesn’t yet have precise details, or developers, or a hockey arena — though there is a space labelled “Potential Events Centre” that could have an arena some day, if things work out that way.

Asked whether Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk would be involved in development, Watson said: “I don’t think so. He seems to have lost interest in moving downtown from what I’m told. Ultimately he owns the team now and if he is not going to move the team, then we are going to have to keep the space longer (as) green space. But it shouldn’t be boarded up and locked off from the public.”

He said the NCC should preserve the potential arena site “until that time when it’s either a new (Senators) owner or the NHL steps in or Mr. Melnyk changes his mind.”

The plan differs from previous LeBreton plans in that it divides the site into seven distinct areas — “bite-sized pieces,” as one commissioner put it. This does not oblige the NCC to develop the whole site in a single take-it-or-leave-it chunk.

More than 40 per cent of the site will be public green space.

The NCC is looking for public reaction. Details about the plan and how to provide reaction are online.

The seven areas are:

• A central Aqueduct District, with entertainment and dining. It will feature an “urban playground” and “skatable landscape” along with lofts for artists’ studios or law offices, and a variety of cafés and restaurants.

“People can relax in the cafés and watch the action in the urban playground,” said Katie Paris, director of the NCC’s Building LeBreton office. The plan envisions a canoe portage, and a place to land a kayak if visitors decide to arrive by water.

• LeBreton Place, a little to the west, a large theatre, music centre, sports facility or cultural institution;

• Parking to the west;

• The Potential Events Centre, to the southwest. Mayor Jim Watson said he would like to see the Ottawa Senators play there some day.

• Albert District, for homes, offices and shops along Albert Street;

• Library District, at the site’s east end, with the future public library; and

• Flats District, “a pedestrian-oriented, primarily residential district” on the northern part of the site.

The apartments and condos would be in towers ranging from 12 to 40 storeys. The NCC is following the theory that “density pays for amenities.”

Tobi Nussbaum, the NCC’s chief executive, said the plan “ensures that the NCC is ambitious in its approach, cohesive in its planning and focused on feasibility, as it works to create a new dynamic community and Capital destination, minutes from downtown.”

There was enthusiasm all around the NCC table.

“So far we’re really on the right track here,” said Michael Foderick, a planning and development lawyer from Toronto.

“It is a coherent vision.”

He praised the planners for coming up with a plan where the NCC will keep long-term control of the site, “and not just hand it over to a private-sector developer” which may not carry the original vision into the long term.

“It’s realistic,” he said. And without naming the recent plan by RendezVous LeBreton, which collapsed after four years of planning, he added that this time, it’s not a case where “when we kick the tires, the whole car falls apart … It’s real.”

“If I were moving today and that were built, that’s where I would move,” said Denis Vaillancourt of Clarence-Rockland.

“There’s a tremendous amount of potential in the spaces and venues that you are creating,” said commission member Deborah Morrison.

And then the mayor weighed in.

“What excites me the most about this are the public spaces,” he said.

“Wow factor” means there is more than homes and retail space, he said.

And NHL hockey?

“It’s important that we not give up hope that the (Senators’) arena could move downtown,” he said, noting that the trend across North America is to bring sports downtown. “In the interim, that (potential arena site) should be parkland.

He also cautioned that developers should not look to city hall for too much funding.

RendezVous LeBreton proposed an Abilities Centre and a Sensplex, and “the assumption was that the City of Ottawa was going to pay for those. That was a false assumption.”

Watson also wants 25 per cent of the housing to be affordable. In the end, there should be “upwards of 8,000” people living at LeBreton, he said — just as there were more than 50 years ago, when the federal government threw them all out.

Watson also wants a further major attraction near the Canadian War Museum. More “wow factor that will bring people to the whole site,” he said. He would have liked to see the Canada Science and Technology Museum there, “but that horse is out of the barn.”

“I think we’ve come up with a winner here,” said Larry Beasley, who teaches planning at the University of British Columbia.

He called it a “complete community” that has “a real integration with the existing neighbourhood.” The previous plan, he said, was cut off from its surroundings — “a separate thing floating out there.”

In January, the NCC board will put out a call for development proposals for the Library District.

tspears@postmedia.com
twitter.com/TomSpears1

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...signing-begins
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  #125  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 2:41 AM
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I wonder why the buildings are planned to be '12 to 40 stories'. Claridge has a 45 story building on the drawing board in their parcel of the flats and Trinity has 58 and 65 stories about to break ground at Bayview. 40 stories seems arbitrary. A building has to be over 45 stories at the bottom of the escarpment to even stand out on the skyline so no fear of affecting Parliament sightlines. I don't see any reasons to limit height in this area at all. Density here is good, density here is necessary. If developers want to go big than they should be welcome in this area!
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  #126  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 3:35 AM
Brannwagon Brannwagon is offline
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The major reaction I've seen is nothing but skepticism about when/whether this will be built (with good reason, given the track record). However, I almost feel like we've been waiting for so long that we have no choice but to get behind this plan. Will this plan satisfy everybody? Of course not. No plan will. But I feel that this one comes damn close, and it has my full support. I found a good comment from u/FitCareer7 on Reddit (of all places) that I thought I'd share here...

Quote:
Call me naive but I'm actually very satisfied with this plan, here's why:

- A significant portion of the space is devoted to flexible-use public space (for festivals, celebrations, etc.) in the form of greenspace and open, "tiled-space" (don't know what to call it). There are also unique public-use features such as the elevated walkway, boardwalks along the river, urban beaches and playgrounds. Amazing.

- A mix of affordable housing and rental units integrated with condo developments, ranging from 25-40 storeys. This makes a mixed-income community while also leveraging "air-space" (i.e. building up instead of out) to increase density, especially important with two O-Train stations close by.

- Using a phased approach to divide the site into smaller districts. Some may say this makes it impossible to have a single "grand vision" for the space, which is true, but I argue the chosen approach does two things: it makes it easier to get shovels in the ground by parcelling-off land to different developers, while creating distinct "flavours" within each district of the Flats. This will give different people with different needs and tastes each a reason to visit the Flats.

- Carving out land for a future "major events arena" (i.e. an NHL arena). Whether or not this happens is out of the hands of the NCC and the City. Eugene (or a future Sens owner) and a developer need to step up and make this happen. But the fact that land was set aside for them despite the Rendez-Vous faceplant is amazing. As Mayor Jimbo is quoted saying, "I think it’s important that we not give up hope that the arena can move downtown".
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  #127  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 5:07 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
But I mean, what else do we put there? We all know what happens when you line up a museum in a park: an open, windy place that fills with people once or twice a year.

We need to have a vibrant, mixed-use community with DENSITY. Granted, the programming at the base of these dense buildings needs to be thought out.
I think the problem is the pace of high rise building in Ottawa is so slow that for the first several decades developers will be marketing towers in an empty field, which will not have broad appeal. If significant public money is not available then I think townhouses are the most practical option. They could still set aside a dozen or so condo sights (which is still probably a 30 year supply).
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  #128  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 1:22 PM
m0nkyman m0nkyman is offline
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Build some cheap and nasty OCH housing and get people living down there fast, then it can get redeveloped. Release early and release often style.
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  #129  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 1:33 PM
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I think the problem is the pace of high rise building in Ottawa is so slow that for the first several decades developers will be marketing towers in an empty field, which will not have broad appeal. If significant public money is not available then I think townhouses are the most practical option. They could still set aside a dozen or so condo sights (which is still probably a 30 year supply).
We're currently experiencing a rental building boom and the condo market is picking up. We have a good dozen towers u/c within walking distance from the O-Train, totaling one or two thousand units. The Liberals are in power with a very stable minority and the Phoenix Pay System slowly stabilizing, so this is a good time to launch LeBreton. Some developers might be willing to cast aside nearby projects if it means getting a piece of LeBreton.
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  #130  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 1:48 PM
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This new plan I find is very much a toned-down version of RVL. Still very urban focused, same amount of units, same goals towards sustainable development, rough street grid plan. The difference is that the O-Train line is not covered, Preston is not extended through the site and the arena moved one block south. The reasoning for the park at Bayview is that the land is infill, so building would be technically difficult and very expensive. RVL also had a lot of it as green space.

This new plan is growing on me. I do have a few reservations such as the relatively few crossings over the rail line, how the rail line will be treated (chain-link fences and exposed overhead wires?), Preston not extending (I find it very hard to get to the War Museum by car), the Parkways dividing the large park space, the lack of indoor connection to the O-Train Stations, especially between for the library up on a hill and the future arena.

The height of the buildings seem fine to me. It balances the density warranted for a site served by two rapid transit lines and the reality of development demand in a city like Ottawa.

Last edited by J.OT13; Nov 22, 2019 at 1:54 PM. Reason: Comment on height.
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  #131  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 2:10 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
This new plan is growing on me. I do have a few reservations such as the relatively few crossings over the rail line, how the rail line will be treated (chain-link fences and exposed overhead wires?), Preston not extending (I find it very hard to get to the War Museum by car), the Parkways dividing the large park space, the lack of indoor connection to the O-Train Stations, especially between for the library up on a hill and the future arena.
These are some good points. While I like the plan overall...

- I agree that there is too little focus/connectivity to the Pimisi underpass/entrance.
- The ped/cycling bridges are too narrow - they should be each be wider than Corktown at least.
- The "urban playground" they have on the north side of the LRT tracks would not be a fun place to hang out unless they do something interesting with the LRT tracks themselves. They show basketball courts, but what is the chance of a basketball going over the fence onto the LRT tracks... I need to see how this is going to be handled.
- Also agree that Capital Park and Riverfront Park need more focus and more inter connectivity.
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  #132  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 2:11 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
I think the problem is the pace of high rise building in Ottawa is so slow that for the first several decades developers will be marketing towers in an empty field, which will not have broad appeal. If significant public money is not available then I think townhouses are the most practical option. They could still set aside a dozen or so condo sights (which is still probably a 30 year supply).
They have the right idea by selling off the "Library District" first, which is the area that feels the least disconnected from the rest of the City. I'd imagine the next phases would logically be the sections between Albert and the LRT.
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  #133  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 2:20 PM
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Back on the topic of how the rail line will be treated, here are two renderings focused on the same area, from different angles. The treatment of the rail line seems different, however.

In this first image, the rail line seems to be partially covered, with a south wall and a roof. The north side is still exposed (which is kind of cool). This option would at the very least hide the overhead wires and poles. The city could even install the same rigid rods we have in tunnels. A chain-link fence might only be needed on the north side.



In the second image, the line is fully uncovered. The overhead wires and fencing are absent, as per the artistic licence commonly used.



In both renderings, I'm a big fan of the graffiti wall. This treatment should be applied to all blank concrete walls, starting with the one between Bayview Station and Bayview Road.

To be fair, RVL's renderings seemed a little off when it came to covering the rail line. The elevation changes were inconsistent between their renderings and reality. Vertical circulation was also not clarified (other than the ramps and stairs down to the arena plaza). The north side of the aqueduct seemed very narrow.
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  #134  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 2:34 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Hmm, based on those renderings it looks like they are excavating most of the area between the LRT tracks and the aqueduct to a lower level (to a similar level as the Pimisi underpass). That creates the graffiti walls. Interesting, I'm going to have to explore that area to see how realistic that is.
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  #135  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 2:45 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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Hmm, based on those renderings it looks like they are excavating most of the area between the LRT tracks and the aqueduct to a lower level (to a similar level as the Pimisi underpass). That creates the graffiti walls. Interesting, I'm going to have to explore that area to see how realistic that is.
In the first rendering, you can see the existing Pimisi art piece at it's existing level with the aqueduct. Only small changes, with low disruption to the line.
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  #136  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 2:50 PM
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In the first rendering, you can see the existing Pimisi art piece at it's existing level with the aqueduct. Only small changes, with low disruption to the line.
Ya, but, I think the line goes down in grade from Pimisi towards Preston... while the grade difference shown at Pimisi is realistic, I'm not sure if its realistic at the Preston Street ped/cycling bridge.
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  #137  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 5:56 PM
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Reminder: Here's the survey

LeBreton Flats Draft Master Concept Plan Consultation
https://www.research.net/r/buildinglebreton
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  #138  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 6:12 PM
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NCC's LeBreton plan saves space for NHL arena
Master concept plan includes parks, entertainment centre and 4,000 residential units

Joanne Chianello · CBC News
Posted: Nov 21, 2019 12:03 PM ET | Last Updated: 2 hours ago




The National Capital Commission's latest concept for LeBreton Flats puts the spotlight on a public entertainment area surrounding the historic aqueduct, but still sets aside space for a major events centre like an NHL arena.

Less than nine months after the fall of the RendezVous LeBreton partnership and plan, the NCC unveiled its new vision on Wednesday that incorporates some of the elements of previous plans — such as thousands of residential units, offices and retail space, and even a possible hockey arena — but puts more emphasis on public and green spaces.

Public consultations in June this year indicated that residents wanted LeBreton to be a place that included affordable housing, public and green spaces, and both community-scale amenities and major attractions.

The NCC appears to have listened to that feedback, unveiling a plan Wednesday that envisions the 24-hectare site as different districts that focus on each of these public demands.

The Albert district, for example, would include mixed-use highrises — with some towers reaching between 25 and 40 storeys — while the so-called Flats district is envisioned as a pedestrian-oriented residential neighbourhood. In all, 4,000 homes are being planned for LeBreton, some of which will be designated as affordable units.

Spotlight on Aqueduct District

The anchor of the 24-hectare site is a small-scale entertainment district built around the historic aqueduct, with boutique retail shops, cafés and restaurants. A "grand staircase" will connect the district with Booth Street above.

The addition of 4.5 kilometres of pathways will connect the districts, which will also include several parks, such as the large, naturalized area planned for the western end of the site.

NHL arena still possible

The NCC has set aside a parcel of land on Albert Street for a potential "events centre."

A new downtown home for the Ottawa Senators was central to the RendezVous LeBreton Group plan. But the group's feuding partners — Sens owner Eugene Melnyk and developer John Ruddy — failed to reach a deal after years of negotiation, ending in an acrimonious lawsuit.

In February, the Senators organization indicated it was still interested in moving the arena downtown at some point. A request for comment from the franchise on its interest in the NCC's latest plan was not answered.

But Mayor Jim Watson, who is a non-voting member of the NCC board, said he believes the arena will eventually have to relocate.

"Clearly there's challenges with attendance at an arena that has no walk-up traffic," said Watson, referring to the Senators' attendance dip this season.

The mayor called the NCC's plan, with its focus on the aqueduct, "very exciting" but believes that an NHL arena also belongs at LeBreton.

"The success of most North American franchises is to have the arena in the downtown core, next to transit," Watson told reporters. "I think you will see an arena downtown."

Asked if Melnyk would be the person to bring the team downtown, Watson said: "I don't think so. He seems to have lost interest in moving it downtown, so I'm told."

Watson said that until Melnyk changes his mind, or a new owner takes over the team, the land should be held as greenspace.

More feasible plan

The NCC believes the latest plan is more feasible, in part because it will sell off parts of land to be redeveloped in a number of stages, using the proceeds of the sale to develop the public parts of the redevelopment.

If the board approves the final version of the plan in January, the NCC will put out a request for proposals to develop the Library district, a parcel of land slated for highrises next to the new central library site.

If all goes well, the NCC may release a second RPF for the next phase of the project, although the redevelopment of the entire site would take years, even decades.

NCC is asking for input on this early-stage concept in a public survey you can take here.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...plan-1.5367812
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  #139  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 6:15 PM
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Tobi Nussbaum was interviewed on CBC's Ottawa Morning this morning, and he mentioned that there is a hidden second aquaduct on the site that they would investigate uncovering. Has anybody heard about this?

AUDIO: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio...lebreton-flats
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  #140  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2019, 6:49 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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More than 40 per cent of the site will be public green space.
Jumpin' Jehosaphat.

The NCC and popular opinion in Ottawa will never be satisfied until 100% of the city is public open green space.
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