Final voyage from B.C. for fast ferries

[officedweller]

It was on one of the newscasts for the first one. Maybe check the CTV website, but I think that was back in the summer.

[vanman]

Is it weird that I see the fast ferries f**ck up as more of the Liberal's fault rather than the NDP's?

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by djh

Was anybody there to see how they loaded the ferry onto the huge ship?

I believe the middle part sinks, like a dry dock... then when it's surrounded they lift it up... maybe ?

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by vanman

Is it weird that I see the fast ferries f**ck up as more of the Liberal's fault rather than the NDP's?

A little, yes. It's not the Liberals fault they couldn't sell 3 massive ferries that aren't much use as ocean going ships, let alone ferries.

[vanman]

^ I just think the Libs sold them off for such a ridiculously low price to make an ideological point, instead of doing what was in BCs interest. They would have been better off leaving them in the public domain, and coming up with a more creative way of utilizing the ferries somewhere down the road.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by vanman

^ I just think the Libs sold them off for such a ridiculously low price to make an ideological point, instead of doing what was in BCs interest. They would have been better off leaving them in the public domain, and coming up with a more creative way of utilizing the ferries somewhere down the road.

Like sending the homeless and drug addicts on a leisure cruise during the Olympics.

NO guarantee they come back. Turns out the NDP didn't order them to be able to float...

[SpongeG]

hopefully dubai's cheque didn't bounce

[touraccuracy]

they were put on auction i think, so don't blame the liberals for the low price...

[twoNeurons]

I think he was blaming the libs for selling them.

I thing we can all agree that both the Millennium Line Phase II cancellation ( which is now back on the table and called the Evergreen Line ) and the FastCats were mostly political decisions.

Weren't scrap prices higher than the price at which they were sold? A reserve may have been a good idea.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I think he was blaming the libs for selling them.

I thing we can all agree that both the Millennium Line Phase II cancellation ( which is now back on the table and called the Evergreen Line ) and the FastCats were mostly political decisions.

Weren't scrap prices higher than the price at which they were sold? A reserve may have been a good idea.

Well, the FastCats were total failures as BC Ferries, that was the first problem. And because they sat around without any maintenance, they became scrap metal. I'm not sure if that is because of their low quality, or that would happen to any ferry.

I can't think of a bigger failure than the FastCats. Being overbudget is one thing, but this project had absolutely zero payoff. They might as well have blasted off a pile of money to explode on the moon.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well, the FastCats were total failures as BC Ferries, that was the first problem. And because they sat around without any maintenance, they became scrap metal. I'm not sure if that is because of their low quality, or that would happen to any ferry.

I can't think of a bigger failure than the FastCats. Being overbudget is one thing, but this project had absolutely zero payoff. They might as well have blasted off a pile of money to explode on the moon.

The 1976 Olympics in Montreal and the SkyDome in Toronto both come to mind, but locally, I don't think there's any bigger failure than FastCat.


...well, maybe the Canucks, but that's another sort of failure.

[Zassk]

^ I would put the Island Highway in the same breath as the FastCats and Evergreen among the NDP's dubious legacy. The Island Highway was badly needed, but it was built with political priorities favouring union labour, and therefore it only covers half the island and omitted most of the planned interchanges. If memory serves, it cost slightly over $2 billion, and we got something that is a mere shadow of the Coquihalla Highway despite it being on much more favourable terrain - and it didn't even get built in the direction that has the most traffic, i.e. south of Nanaimo.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

The 1976 Olympics in Montreal and the SkyDome in Toronto both come to mind, but locally, I don't think there's any bigger failure than FastCat.


...well, maybe the Canucks, but that's another sort of failure.

Those buildings are still in use at least. Although I hear the SkyDome will never he paid off. Both of those buildings are something to keep in mind for everybody who complains about BC Place.

The Leafs aren't failures? How about the Argos? Toronto's Olympic hopes?

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Well, the FastCats were total failures as BC Ferries, that was the first problem. And because they sat around without any maintenance, they became scrap metal. I'm not sure if that is because of their low quality, or that would happen to any ferry.

I can't think of a bigger failure than the FastCats. Being overbudget is one thing, but this project had absolutely zero payoff. They might as well have blasted off a pile of money to explode on the moon.

They were sold for $20 million to the Washington Group... the same group that just prior to auction offered $60M.

I'm not into taking sides politcally, but I will say one thing... the Fast Ferries were never really about the boats, they were about building an industry. Little experience working with aluminum, design changes, and BC Ferries insisting on Diesel ( Originally designs called for Petrol ), kowtowing to nimby residents ( who didn't want trucks in town, so the ferries weren't built with them in mind ) and other design oversights when building the world's largest ( at the time ) were all considerations.

If they had been successful, it may have turned into a competitive industry for the area. We'll never know if that was possible, as we never stayed the course. These kind of industries require a lot of government capital and backing to get started and like anything, in the beginning there will be problems and teething problems. We never really had the chance to get out of the infant phase on Aluminum-hulled boats.

Neither party has clean hands on this one, I'm afraid.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Zassk

^ I would put the Island Highway in the same breath as the FastCats and Evergreen among the NDP's dubious legacy. The Island Highway was badly needed, but it was built with political priorities favouring union labour, and therefore it only covers half the island and omitted most of the planned interchanges. If memory serves, it cost slightly over $2 billion, and we got something that is a mere shadow of the Coquihalla Highway despite it being on much more favourable terrain - and it didn't even get built in the direction that has the most traffic, i.e. south of Nanaimo.

Yes a lot of people forget about the island highway. Total political BS, NDP style.

The route was a little dubious, but I would have been totally ok if they had tolled it like the Coquihalla.

Do you know if the cost was way over the original budget, or just a huge waste from the start? I'd say this is was worse that the Liberals convention center money pit. Both serve a function, but hopefully the convention centre will pay for itself. That, and you could have built two convention centres for that price, or the Canada Line, or most of the UBC Skytrain extension, or a replacement PMB back in the early 90s..

[Zassk]

^ Going from memory, I believe $2.1 billion was the budget from the start. The Island Highway was in bad shape and needed something done, but...

If we had saved $1 billion on the Island Highway, then imagine what we could have done 10 years ago with Sea to Sky or Kicking Horse. Or the Evergreen Line could have opened in 2007 as planned...

But none of those are in NDP ridings, I guess...


(Disclaimer: my family contains founding members of the NDP party, so I criticize them without remorse. :-) )

[BCPhil]

Ujjal Dosanjh placed them up for sale first and no one bit. There were rumors that the Washington Marine group originally offered to buy them for $60 million. But it was turned down (I don't know if it was by the NDP or Libs) probably because for that price WMG would want conditions and warranties on the ships. If that was the case, either party was right to turn down the offer, because I wouldn't want to have to worry about fixing them in the future; better to just get rid of them.

They were a colossal failure at being ferries in tame BC waters, and are unsuitable for ocean going in almost any other waterway in the world. Good riddance.

WRT The Island Highway, it's a mixed bag. I used to live up there, and the highway was sorely needed, but it was almost a complete screw up. Way too many lights for a highway. Around Nanaimo they should have been interchanges (especially the light at Woodgrove Center where the highway splits, its all set up for an overpass, but they never put it in). And in the rural areas, instead of a simple tunnel underpass with merge/exit lanes for small rural roads (like on the Coquihalla), there are intersections. It was needed, but it deserved a whole lot more.

And why did the NDP improve the highways around Victoria, but NOT put in an interchange at McKenzie? It's the only spot in the province where I'm almost in an accident every single time I go passed.

[Stingray2004]

The Vancouver Island Highway Project had a final budget of $1.3 billion and the government of the day downgraded much of the scope of the project in order to keep it within that budget.

Actually, initial construction began circa 1990 in the Parksville area.

A detailed summary of the project scope downgrades between 1988 and 1996 is set out at pages 44 - 46 of this BC Auditor-General report. (Click the Report .pdf link)

It's too bad about the scope downgrades. Otherwise the Pat Bay Highway as well as Hwy 1 from Tillicum northward to Campbell River would have been a marvelous drive/engineering feat.

http://www.bcauditor.com/pubs/1996/r...ing-and-design

[Klazu]

Interesting read: https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/383...oats-in-Egypt-

[Coldrsx]

That's a sad, but appropriate ending to this fiasco.