PHILADELPHIA | W Hotel & Element by Westin | 617 FT | 51 FLOORS

[josef]

Guyysss, we're just starting a huge project on Market Street that'll improve an area everyone already complains about. It's not like progress doesn't happen. The W and the move to residential for that corner building will help. Also, they're actually doing renovation on the south side of Chestnut just before 16th, anyone know what's up with that? Something good?

At any rate: patience!

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by MSFHQ

I fail to see how someone being concerned about groups of teens loitering at all hours gets twisted into some type of closeted racist statement. And yay, I'm happy that it's been almost a year since a large scale mob attack on center city Philadelphia. So proud of that.


Plain fact is it looks shoddy when you have people loitering by that clothespin. And chestnut St is garbage. How walnut can be so nice and this place is sneaker mecca is besides me. People who bought at the Ellington are making a value play because I'd take one look at the area and pass.

I have friends come to Philly all the time and they break my balls about how trashy parts of CC can be, chestnut included, so let's not pretend this is hyperbole.

Are you still that blind to see that Chestnut St is on the up? 2116 Chestnut, AQ Rittenhouse, W Hotel, massive 1100 block development, etc. And let's not forget the Retail chains that have been coming to Chestnut: J Crew, Express, H&M, American Eagle, Camper, Allen Edmonds, Uniqlo, Nordstrom Rack, Walgreens, Sephora, West Elm, etc. etc.

East Chestnut is still dumpy as is Market East in general, but things are changing rapidly. And I think it's funny that people fail to see this - I hope you don't work in Real Estate in any way, shape or form.

And those people who bought at the Ellington are going to see increased property values and when it comes time to sell, are going to make a fortune on their investment.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by MSFHQ

I fail to see how someone being concerned about groups of teens loitering at all hours gets twisted into some type of closeted racist statement. And yay, I'm happy that it's been almost a year since a large scale mob attack on center city Philadelphia. So proud of that.


Plain fact is it looks shoddy when you have people loitering by that clothespin. And chestnut St is garbage. How walnut can be so nice and this place is sneaker mecca is besides me. People who bought at the Ellington are making a value play because I'd take one look at the area and pass.

I have friends come to Philly all the time and they break my balls about how trashy parts of CC can be, chestnut included, so let's not pretend this is hyperbole.

With all due respect, I think you need some less sensitive, delicate friends. Cities are in constant flux and have lots of refinement juxtaposed with grittiness. The grittiness does not make them unsuccessful as dynamic urban places. When I go to cities like DC or Boston, where huge swathes have just become homogenized yuppie playgrounds, it makes me grateful that Philly is what it is. It keeps it fresh and helps it retain its sense of place. And I've heard the same comments from foreign visitors. A lot of other places in the US do not feel like real cities anymore. They feel like a somewhat denser version of the Truman Show.

[MSFHQ]

I guess my statement about Ellington being a value play didn't appropriately convey that the price will increase as the area improves.

Man, people on this forum get so upset when this city is critiqued even a little. Relax. It's a zip code, not your mom.

My statement was directed towards a couple block section of chestnut not it's entire length. Yes, it's improving, but it is also incredibly dumpy in sections you'd think should be otherwise nice.

As far as my friends being delicate, I beg to differ. Regardless, they are young professionals with good jobs, the kind of people the bolster tax roles. Regardless of opinions on their "yuppieness" if they think an area is busted maybe it should be taken as a valid concern.

I'll let this topic get back to development.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by MSFHQ

I guess my statement about Ellington being a value play didn't appropriately convey that the price will increase as the area improves.

Man, people on this forum get so upset when this city is critiqued even a little. Relax. It's a zip code, not your mom.

My statement was directed towards a couple block section of chestnut not it's entire length. Yes, it's improving, but it is also incredibly dumpy in sections you'd think should be otherwise nice.

As far as my friends being delicate, I beg to differ. Regardless, they are young professionals with good jobs, the kind of people the bolster tax roles. Regardless of opinions on their "yuppieness" if they think an area is busted maybe it should be taken as a valid concern.

I'll let this topic get back to development.

Again, remember where Center City has come from since even the 1990s. It has changed rapidly and continues to change. Market East/Chestnut East and the "Loft District/Callowhill" are really the last two stretches of Center City that need redevelopment. Market East seems to be picking up speed quickly. The Loft District is improving but at a much slower clip.

[1487]

Originally Posted by josef

Guyysss, we're just starting a huge project on Market Street that'll improve an area everyone already complains about. It's not like progress doesn't happen. The W and the move to residential for that corner building will help. Also, they're actually doing renovation on the south side of Chestnut just before 16th, anyone know what's up with that? Something good?

At any rate: patience!

There is a large retail space on south side of chestnut that has been under construction for a long time. The permit info doesnt tell you much but I heard it was going to be bar/restaurant venue with live music. Perhaps something with a western theme- I cant recall. They definitely arent advertising it in advance with any "coming soon" signage.

[1487]

Originally Posted by MSFHQ

I fail to see how someone being concerned about groups of teens loitering at all hours gets twisted into some type of closeted racist statement. And yay, I'm happy that it's been almost a year since a large scale mob attack on center city Philadelphia. So proud of that.


Plain fact is it looks shoddy when you have people loitering by that clothespin. And chestnut St is garbage. How walnut can be so nice and this place is sneaker mecca is besides me. People who bought at the Ellington are making a value play because I'd take one look at the area and pass.

I have friends come to Philly all the time and they break my balls about how trashy parts of CC can be, chestnut included, so let's not pretend this is hyperbole.

The transpasses issued by the PSD only work up until 7PM or so. The idea that these kids are there "all hours" of the day and night makes no sense- unless they spend the night or walk home. With all the scaffolding up on that building there is barely room to walk by wendy's, much less loiter for hours.

Parts of chestnut are in need of a lot of investment- this is hardly the worst stretch. I'd rather have an active use like a fast food outpost than vacancy- which is what you have to the east of this location on other side of broad.

Even though Im not even sure there was any event one year ago near the location I do not understand the notion that based on this event (whether it be 1, 2 or more years ago) people have determined you should not have things like Wendy's in CC Philadelphia. If something bad happens in a subway station does that mean we should close down the subway system? Newsflash: most major cities have pockets in and around their CBDs that are not exactly the best examples of what their cities offer.

[Dean4983]

This is the W Hotel thread right?

[Kidphilly]

also known as the Wendy's Tower

[iheartphilly]

Might as well as this to the mix:

http://www.nj.com/burlington/index.s...port_says.html

You can't make this stuff up!

[josef]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

also known as the Wendy's Tower

Ha. The top of the building's gonna have huge red pigtails.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Might as well as this to the mix:

http://www.nj.com/burlington/index.s...port_says.html

You can't make this stuff up!

Hopefully this W Hotel attracts the higher-class sort of hookers to help spiff up that part of Chestnut.

[Jawnadelphia]

[IMG]Untitled by TallCoolOne2014, on Flickr[/IMG]

Just chillin' - y'all gotta chill.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 1487

I think people have to separate simply SEEING a demographic they arent comfortable with in or around the Wendy's and accusations of fighting, trouble making or flash mobbing. There are a handful of charters in CC and kids are going to get food from affordable places such as wendys. Ive been past this place and this place MANY times. Ive yet to see anyone fighting or harassing anyone else. And the idea that a Wendys (and brand new one at that) could jeopardize the W hotel's chances for success is ridiculous. 15th and chestnut will soon have 2 condo buildings, an upscale apt building and a W hotel at its perimeter. I think the area is moving in right direction. Its actually doing better than most of east chestnut.

Who said Wendy's would jeopardize the W's success? I didn't. Nor do I think it. That said, I've seen fights outside the Wendy's in the last several years. Actual physical fights happen without the cops arriving, you know. I don't care whether the fighters are white, black, blue, or orange. The corner remains not such a great stretch. I expect that will be changing. Anyhow, let's get back to the W...sorry I said anything.

[1487]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

[IMG]Untitled by TallCoolOne2014, on Flickr[/IMG]

Just chillin' - y'all gotta chill.

Arrest them immediately! They are standing on the sidewalk looking unsightly! You would never see this in NYC.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Who said Wendy's would jeopardize the W's success? I didn't. Nor do I think it. That said, I've seen fights outside the Wendy's in the last several years. Actual physical fights happen without the cops arriving, you know. I don't care whether the fighters are white, black, blue, or orange. The corner remains not such a great stretch. I expect that will be changing. Anyhow, let's get back to the W...sorry I said anything.

I simply would like to know what you and others are suggesting be done exactly. Everytime anyone is pressed on this they are quick to offer up all the standard PC responses about how they aren't talking about any particular race of kids, they don't care if the kids are blue or pink or purple, how they aren't targeting one particular group, etc. Same old nonsense. So instead of talking around what you're talking about just tell us what you want the Police (or whomever) to do about these kids that you don't feel should be allowed in this area. Should their be an age ban? Should they be locked up on site because some kids that looked like them had a fight nearby within the last 3-4 years? should we having zoning regulations that prevent any fast food establishment that MIGHT attract kids who MIGHT get into a fight once or twice a calendar year? I'm curious as to what remedies are suggested. Also, who would get to determine which demographics "we" need to eliminate from select parts of Center city? Chestnut street has far worse problems from 10th to broad, namely half the storefronts are vacant and pedestrian traffic is lacking in many stretches. In terms of the health of CC this is more of an issue than the fact that too many charter school teens patronize wendy's in the afternoon.

[el don]

Originally Posted by 1487

i simply would like to know what you and others are suggesting be done exactly. Everytime anyone is pressed on this they are quick to offer up all the standard pc responses about how they aren't talking about any particular race of kids, they don't care if the kids are blue or pink or purple, how they aren't targeting one particular group, etc. Same old nonsense. So instead of talking around what you're talking about just tell us what you want the police (or whomever) to do about these kids that you don't feel should be allowed in this area. Should their be an age ban? Should they be locked up on site because some kids that looked like them had a fight nearby within the last 3-4 years? Should we having zoning regulations that prevent any fast food establishment that might attract kids who might get into a fight once or twice a calendar year? I'm curious as to what remedies are suggested. Also, who would get to determine which demographics "we" need to eliminate from select parts of center city? Chestnut street has far worse problems from 10th to broad, namely half the storefronts are vacant and pedestrian traffic is lacking in many stretches. In terms of the health of cc this is more of an issue than the fact that too many charter school teens patronize wendy's in the afternoon.

this.

[Insoluble]

Originally Posted by 1487

I simply would like to know what you and others are suggesting be done exactly. Everytime anyone is pressed on this they are quick to offer up all the standard PC responses about how they aren't talking about any particular race of kids, they don't care if the kids are blue or pink or purple, how they aren't targeting one particular group, etc. Same old nonsense. So instead of talking around what you're talking about just tell us what you want the Police (or whomever) to do about these kids that you don't feel should be allowed in this area. Should their be an age ban? Should they be locked up on site because some kids that looked like them had a fight nearby within the last 3-4 years? should we having zoning regulations that prevent any fast food establishment that MIGHT attract kids who MIGHT get into a fight once or twice a calendar year? I'm curious as to what remedies are suggested. Also, who would get to determine which demographics "we" need to eliminate from select parts of Center city? Chestnut street has far worse problems from 10th to broad, namely half the storefronts are vacant and pedestrian traffic is lacking in many stretches. In terms of the health of CC this is more of an issue than the fact that too many charter school teens patronize wendy's in the afternoon.

Thank you! I feel like the majority of the complaints about the Wendy's (among other things) aren't motivated by race so much as class. Having a mix of ages and incomes walking through Center City is healthy and helps make the city a vibrant and interesting place to be. I much prefer this to the massive empty lots and vacant storefronts between 8th and 11th on Chestnut.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

Thank you! I feel like the majority of the complaints about the Wendy's (among other things) aren't motivated by race so much as class. Having a mix of ages and incomes walking through Center City is healthy and helps make the city a vibrant and interesting place to be. I much prefer this to the massive empty lots and vacant storefronts between 8th and 11th on Chestnut.

For real - I admit I posted that pic to stir the pot a bit - my apologies.
However, people do seem to forget that:

Philadelphia is a minority city overall !

36.3% white
44.3% black
13.0% Hispanic/Latino
6.9% - Asian
2-3% - Biracial
-- give or take - estimates from US Census 2013 update. So, there's going to be a lot of different peeps walking around.

And, Meek Mill is from Philly.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Again, remember where Center City has come from since even the 1990s. It has changed rapidly and continues to change. Market East/Chestnut East and the "Loft District/Callowhill" are really the last two stretches of Center City that need redevelopment. Market East seems to be picking up speed quickly. The Loft District is improving but at a much slower clip.

I actually think the "loft district", Northern Libs to Fishtown is changing rapidly. I drove around killing time last week and its construction every where I look. There are a couple more older warehouses that stand out for a remodel, but things seem to continue to change at a decent pace.