Street Closures

[pierremoncton]

Same with Euston Park. Limited parking, yet it's always packed. Always a bunch of people finding their way there by bicycle.

Nothing wrong with trying something new. And this is the best time given the new reality.

[Fischbob]

So Saint John has unveiled it's own street "opening" scheme (they've chosen to frame it as opening the streets to alternate uses rather than just closing them to vehicles). The proposal is to have weekend street closures that rotate between 3 different sets of Uptown streets from July through September. See map below, from the staff presentation in Monday's Council agenda:



The street rotation will be as follows:

A - Canterbury from King to Princess; Grannan from Rogue Alley to Prince William
B - Prince William from Duke to Grannan; Princess from Canterbury to Water
C - Germain from Princess to Grannan; Grannan from Germain to Rogue Alley

The City has also proposed the permanent closure of South Market Street to vehicle traffic, creating a fully pedestrianized street adjacent to the City Market.

In addition to the above, there are proposals to:

-Add several 15-minute on-street parking spaces for pick-up/drop-off purposes (the blue car markers on the map above). The idea is not only to facilitate access to the rotating pedestrian streets when they're up and running but also to help Uptown businesses conduct curbside pick-up services and the like, and
- Create a more streamlined community street closure application process that will cut down on the lead time required for community groups to request a street closure for their event.

I think this is a good approach to testing the waters for pedestrianized streets in the Uptown. The rotating nature of street openings allows for the City and businesses to experiment with what works and where it might work, as well as backtrack if things don't work out as expected. Limiting them to Friday evening through Sunday morning allows businesses who prefer the status quo to not be perpetually cut off. And South Market Street makes perfect sense to pedestrianize on a permanent basis since it opens up a lot of possibilities for the Market to have a greater outdoor presence.

[J81]

The Main street closure might be one of the dumbest things ive seen in Moncton since we became infatuated with roundabouts and dogbones. There is zero point to doing this. It isnt for the expansion of patios as the majority of the patios are on the north side of the street. It’s basically an empty bike lane.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by J81

The Main street closure might be one of the dumbest things ive seen in Moncton since we became infatuated with roundabouts and dogbones. There is zero point to doing this. It isnt for the expansion of patios as the majority of the patios are on the north side of the street. It’s basically an empty bike lane.

I'm not a fan of the whole idea either. But if it had to happen, this design leaves a lot to be desired. Not well thought out.

[MonctonRad]

An experiment doomed to failure if you ask me. If anything, I will be visiting downtown less this summer rather than more because of this.

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

An experiment doomed to failure if you ask me. If anything, I will be visiting downtown less this summer rather than more because of this.

Its just a typical Moncton boondoggle. Does anyone at city hall think anything through thoroughly before acting on their wild fantasyland ideas? Like this is beyond laughable. Surely someone will come to their senses. I was downtown this afternoon and didnt see one single bicycle or patio chair in the blocked off area. So it’s basically a long empty space. Not to mention hideously ugly.

[shazapple]

Just like the pandemic made something like this possible, it probably also imposes some restrictions, so is this an ideal setup? Probably not, but like I said before the city should be applauded for being willing to experiment.

Success or fail, they will learn more from doing this than years of planning and piles of money could accomplish. I'd rather see them spend tens of thousands on paint and barricades that are easily removable than hundred of thousands on permanent changes that weren't even tested to see if they were feasible.

Either way, businesses and people need time to adjust, so maybe lets be reasonable and give it a little bit more than a week before writing it off?

[L'homard]

Went down to experience it myself. Here's the salient points.
- 5 dollars to park for approximately 90 minutes.
- Few patios open.
- Closed section of the street is on the side of the road that has NO patios at all.
- Not a single bike used the bike lane in 90 minutes.
- They took the biggest urban blight on the planet, the dreaded Jersey barrier, and snaked dozens of them through the middle of the downtown, like a bad surgical scar.
- Unmanned pay station to get out of the parking lot, with indecipherable instructions on how to pay the parking machine. Even passersby who stopped to help me get out of the parking lot couldn't figure out how to pay for parking.

This whole idea seemed like a bad one from the beginning, but I was keeping an open mind. It's actually even worse than I imagined. It's ugly, it inconveniences far more people than it helps, and is a total waste of taxpayer money and city staff's time.
You either shut your downtown to cars or you don't. When you do stuff half way, no one is ever going to be happy. I can just see tourists going downtown, half ending up going the wrong way, the other half wondering "WtF is this? Are they about to demolish a rebuild downtown?"

[J81]

Originally Posted by L'homard

Went down to experience it myself. Here's the salient points.
- 5 dollars to park for approximately 90 minutes.
- Few patios open.
- Closed section of the street is on the side of the road that has NO patios at all.
- Not a single bike used the bike lane in 90 minutes.
- They took the biggest urban blight on the planet, the dreaded Jersey barrier, and snaked dozens of them through the middle of the downtown, like a bad surgical scar.
- Unmanned pay station to get out of the parking lot, with indecipherable instructions on how to pay the parking machine. Even passersby who stopped to help me get out of the parking lot couldn't figure out how to pay for parking.

This whole idea seemed like a bad one from the beginning, but I was keeping an open mind. It's actually even worse than I imagined. It's ugly, it inconveniences far more people than it helps, and is a total waste of taxpayer money and city staff's time.
You either shut your downtown to cars or you don't. When you do stuff half way, no one is ever going to be happy. I can just see tourists going downtown, half ending up going the wrong way, the other half wondering "WtF is this? Are they about to demolish a rebuild downtown?"

Its funny you mention the parking. I hadnt parked downtown in over two years. I was surprised to see the booth gone. Upon exit the woman in front of me seemed to have a very hard time. Mustve been 3 or 4 minutes after i pulled up behind her that she finally made it out. I didnt have any issue with it at all. Hit start, scan your ticket then tap your card. But they have similar systems around Toronto and many airports so i was quite familiar with it. I could see how it might be confusing to some people though.

I agree that this is a complete farce and embarrassment to the city though. Theres nothing more inviting in a downtown than a string of jersey barriers! Way to go Moncton!

[MonctonRad]

Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll give it up as a lost cause by August 1st before too much damage is done.......

2020, what a year..........

[L'homard]

Originally Posted by J81

Its funny you mention the parking. I hadnt parked downtown in over two years. I was surprised to see the booth gone. Upon exit the woman in front of me seemed to have a very hard time. Mustve been 3 or 4 minutes after i pulled up behind her that she finally made it out. I didnt have any issue with it at all. Hit start, scan your ticket then tap your card.

It took me by surprise as well. The biggest surprise, however, came when I hit Start, scanned my ticket, hit the button to pay by tap, and then everything froze up. It wouldn't accept my tap. Nothing would happen when I tapped. So I tried the button to allow me to insert my card. That wouldn't work either, the machine refused to switch over to the "insert card" mode. I don't know what I did wrong. I'm pretty good with this type of tech, eg I figured out the terribly complicated on=street parking meters on Main St. in no time flat. But in this case I must have done something wrong, as the poor driver behind me, when he finally got to the meter after the big delay caused by me, he had no problems. I'd still be there if not for a nice lady who helped me out. No doubt the problem, though, was me.
Anyway, I was a strong advocate for closing Main Street to cars. I lost that argument, and that's okay. But now we see the result. No one will ever convince me this is the better option. To be frank, this is an embarrassment and will not lure patrons downtown in any way, shape or form. Just one taxpayer's opiniion.

[jonny golden]

Apparently there are a lot of bus drivers who aren't too happy with the new set up.

[gehrhardt]

About the parking, we usually just park on Assomption, Downing st, or one of the streets north of Main. They're metered, but it's not pricey. No hassle, and free on evenings and weekends, when my wife and I are usually downtown. Unless some major event is happening, I've never had an issue.

I'm willing to give the situation downtown a try. At least they're trying something. If it fails, so be it.

[J81]

Originally Posted by L'homard

It took me by surprise as well. The biggest surprise, however, came when I hit Start, scanned my ticket, hit the button to pay by tap, and then everything froze up. It wouldn't accept my tap. Nothing would happen when I tapped. So I tried the button to allow me to insert my card. That wouldn't work either, the machine refused to switch over to the "insert card" mode. I don't know what I did wrong. I'm pretty good with this type of tech, eg I figured out the terribly complicated on=street parking meters on Main St. in no time flat. But in this case I must have done something wrong, as the poor driver behind me, when he finally got to the meter after the big delay caused by me, he had no problems. I'd still be there if not for a nice lady who helped me out. No doubt the problem, though, was me.
Anyway, I was a strong advocate for closing Main Street to cars. I lost that argument, and that's okay. But now we see the result. No one will ever convince me this is the better option. To be frank, this is an embarrassment and will not lure patrons downtown in any way, shape or form. Just one taxpayer's opiniion.

Lol that sounds like a disaster. You managed to get it sorted out though. Technology is finicky. What id love to see here is what I see alot in Toronto where you can pay for parking with an app on your phone. It makes it so easy if youre running a bit behind and your meter is about to run out. You just open your app and buy more time. Saves a lot of headaches.

[lirette]

I haven't experienced it yet, have seen pictures of the barriers and don't disagree they are ugly. You'd think the entire city was falling apart though reading these comments.

I'm guessing if the feedback is consistent across the board though they will likely revert back which shouldnt be difficult to simply take the barriers back. Likely this will end up being something we laugh about years from now. I do applaud new ideas, and will give them a break on it if they listen to feedback assuming its overwhelmingly one sided.

[L'homard]

Originally Posted by J81

Lol that sounds like a disaster. You managed to get it sorted out though. Technology is finicky. What id love to see here is what I see alot in Toronto where you can pay for parking with an app on your phone. It makes it so easy if youre running a bit behind and your meter is about to run out. You just open your app and buy more time. Saves a lot of headaches.

Check out Hotspot Parking. https://htsp.ca/
Developed by a Fredericton guy. Works well. I forgot all about this app even though I have it on my phone. DOH! I always have a ton of change for parking meters and coffees, so I rarely use it but it has worked well for me when I did use it.
Plus the developer of the app is a super guy and a local.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by L'homard

Check out Hotspot Parking. https://htsp.ca/
Developed by a Fredericton guy. Works well. I forgot all about this app even though I have it on my phone. DOH! I always have a ton of change for parking meters and coffees, so I rarely use it but it has worked well for me when I did use it.
Plus the developer of the app is a super guy and a local.

Best part of the app is that you can add time while you are away. Use this feature when you are running into a SNB or office and you are not sure if the appointment will take 10 min or an hour. Start off just putting 15 min on meter and then add as you need from the waiting room. I have not used it yet for bus or taxi but you can use it for airport parking now in Freddy.

[jonny golden]

My wife & I decided to go for a downtown walk along Main St. Friday night. We just wanted to check it out since they made the changes. What we observed:
1. A motorcycle using the bike lane going east. (opposite to the 1 way direction)
2. Multiple bicycles using the sidewalks.
3. Several pedestrians walking in the bicycle lane.

I can't say that I see any real benefit to this idea. To me, there's no noticeable difference in the sidewalk seating because of the reconfiguration.

[MonctonRad]

Well, there's at least one cyclist using the new bicycle lane on Main Street.


T&T photo

[Colouratura]

I finally had a chance to go downtown and I don't understand the point of this reconfiguration on Main St.

The original idea made sense to allow restaurants to expand their patios and also provide more room for pedestrians to walk while maintaining social distancing. However this reconfiguration does nothing to achieve either of those things.

All it does is make a giant bike lane that takes up the whole lane that normally would have been traffic heading towards Dieppe. Main St. wasn't exactly a street that I felt sketchy with riding a bike on before this. It's nothing like trying to go down Mountain Road or the area near the mall *shudder.

If I was to redesign this....
1. Get rid of the bike lane

2. Traffic use the side of Main St. that currently has the bike lane. It's much nicer to dine without traffic constantly going right by your seat.

3. Use the closed traffic lane to allow for the sidewalk area to expand into that whole lane. Restaurants could add much more seating and help their businesses. Pedestrians would still have more room to walk as well.

Currently it just doesn't seem to be doing anything to help businesses to increase seating. They need that much more than we need a bike lane on a short stretch of street. I never did see a bike the whole time I was walking or hanging out on Main St.