Dartmouth viewplanes under study

[someone123]

Awfully vague and leading survey -- they've already chosen their "principles" it looks like!

I do like the idea of the varied building line. One of my problems with the viewplanes is that they create ugly "tabletop" skylines. However, it might not be easy to determine which buildings can be higher than others.

[halifaxboyns]

I have completed the survey as well - i'm not happy about the idea of keeping the brightwood viewplane; regardless if it's a golf course or anything.

[beyeas]

yeah I wasn't a fan of their survey questions, so I made sure to make my views clear (especially in relation to brightwood, and adding any more viewplanes) in the free form comments!

[Dmajackson]

Another report on this project;

http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/...Viewplanes.pdf

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Another report on this project;

http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/...Viewplanes.pdf

By reading the comments, the option of abolishing the viewplanes seems to be as popular an opinion as any other. However it wasn't mentioned as alternative. It seems as though the choice was made in advance - that viewplanes will be maintained.

Once viewplanes are implemented, it is almost impossible to eliminate them. I realize that viewplanes already exist in Dartmouth, but now is an excellent time to minimize such unnecessary red-tape. I hope that the people involved in this study realize that they are affecting the future development of Dartmouth and that they won't take this responsibility lightly. Is this study being undertaken to appease the minority? As a person stated recently in the a local newspaper, Nova Scotians want to be fair to everyone including the viewpoint of a few people, but democracy means accepting the view of the majority (I have paraphrased it, but I agree completely with their sentiment).

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

By reading the comments, the option of abolishing the viewplanes seems to be as popular an opinion as any other. However it wasn't mentioned as alternative. It seems as though the choice was made in advance - that viewplanes will be maintained.

Once viewplanes are implemented, it is almost impossible to eliminate them. I hope that the people involved in this study realize that they are affecting the future development of Dartmouth and that they won't take this responsibility lightly. Is this study being undertaken to appease the minority? As a person stated recently in the newspapers, Nova Scotians want to be fair to everyone including the minority, but democracy means accepting the view of the majority (I have paraphrased it, but I agree completely with their sentiment).

I don't have a problem with maintaining the viewplanes from the Dartmouth Commons, what I had a huge issue with was Brightwood - which is the biggest obsticle to development covering about 80% of downtown Dartmouth.

If you look at the existing viewplanes from the Dartmouth Commons (all excluding Brightwood), the impact is really not much - it covers mainly the low density development down the hill to the waters edge and the railway yards. The potential that CN is ever going to move that railyard so that any other type of development could occur is pretty slim.

If you remove the brightwood viewplane - you open up 80% (or more) of downtown for bigger, better development. If it's a choice between keeping the ones from the Dartmouth Parks and dropping Brightwood (as a compromise), I'm fine with that.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I don't have a problem with maintaining the viewplanes from the Dartmouth Commons, what I had a huge issue with was Brightwood - which is the biggest obsticle to development covering about 80% of downtown Dartmouth.

If you look at the existing viewplanes from the Dartmouth Commons (all excluding Brightwood), the impact is really not much - it covers mainly the low density development down the hill to the waters edge and the railway yards. The potential that CN is ever going to move that railyard so that any other type of development could occur is pretty slim.

If you remove the brightwood viewplane - you open up 80% (or more) of downtown for bigger, better development. If it's a choice between keeping the ones from the Dartmouth Parks and dropping Brightwood (as a compromise), I'm fine with that.

Thanks for clarifying that. Based on your explanation, I am ok it with it also.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for clarifying that. Based on your explanation, I am ok it with it also.

Well just to clarify, I'm basing my comment on the current viewplanes. From the report, it looks like they may be changing the locations somewhat and clarifying how the view is determined, but the main plus is dropping Brightwood. That, to me, is huge.

So just to clarify how the current viewplanes affect downtown Dartmouth, I've attached a screenshot of the viewplanes from the HRM mapping system. I was apparently wrong about the affect on the low density housing, there is virtually none. The affect is mainly on the rail yards and Alderney Landing. But still, that's not really a big deal because as I said, I doubt CN is moving their rail yard anytime soon.

The big vp from the top is obviously Brightwood. So as I pointed out; a huge amount of downtown opens up with it being removed (I would guess even more than 90% now that I look at it).

Here is the diagram:

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well just to clarify, I'm basing my comment on the current viewplanes. From the report, it looks like they may be changing the locations somewhat and clarifying how the view is determined, but the main plus is dropping Brightwood. That, to me, is huge.

So just to clarify how the current viewplanes affect downtown Dartmouth, I've attached a screenshot of the viewplanes from the HRM mapping system. I was apparently wrong about the affect on the low density housing, there is virtually none. The affect is mainly on the rail yards and Alderney Landing. But still, that's not really a big deal because as I said, I doubt CN is moving their rail yard anytime soon.

The big vp from the top is obviously Brightwood. So as I pointed out; a huge amount of downtown opens up with it being removed (I would guess even more than 90% now that I look at it).

Here is the diagram:

Thanks for posting the illustration. Unfortunately, some of the new views being considered (from further back in the Dartmouth Commons) will cover some of the Brightwood views. Hopefully, those alternative views will not be included in the study. Views B and E seem to be the top two candidates and would probably have the least impact on future development.

[halifaxboyns]

That was the other part of my clarification that I didn't post (it was late). I guess we'll have to wait and see what the process does and what views they map. But even if some of the brightwood viewplane gets covered again - if you look at how much it covers, if even 70% becomes 'viewplane free' that's still an impressive amount of area.

[beyeas]

HRM ponders view from Dartmouth park
CBC News Posted: Jul 8, 2011 9:11 AM AT

Dartmouth councillors are taking steps to protect the view of Halifax harbour from the Dartmouth Common.

On Thursday, the four politicians on the Harbour East community council selected four view planes to use as a guideline for future developments.

It means people in the park would see the harbour, not a building.

Coun. Gloria McCluskey loves the views from the Common.

"It's beautiful in that Dillman park," she said. "I'm not so fussy about looking over at Halifax. But to look out at the harbour, it's wonderful."

...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...mmon-view.html

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by beyeas

HRM ponders view from Dartmouth park
CBC News Posted: Jul 8, 2011 9:11 AM AT

Coun. Gloria McCluskey loves the views from the Common.

"It's beautiful in that Dillman park," she said. "I'm not so fussy about looking over at Halifax. But to look out at the harbour, it's wonderful."

Gloria may have been joking with her comment about Halifax. But I heard her say it, and she sure didn't SOUND like she was joking. And that parochialism speaks volumes about the problems we face with HRM and our useless council.

[mcmcclassic]

Is there a phobia for "fear of tall (over 3 stories) buildings"? Cause our city seems to have it. Seems smart to put the tall towers on the Dartmouth side- that way Phil Pacey can have his heritage gems not ruined by the sight of change.

[Keith P.]

IIRC, the Paceys under the umbrella of the Heritage Trust opposed the Kings Wharf towers in Dartmouth at the public hearing. Too TALL!!! was their complaint. I believe they may have been the only persons, perhaps with one other naysayer, to speak against it, while the preponderance of speakers were strongly in favor. I believe the HT thinks that seeing tall structures from Citadel Hill is just as bad as having tall structures block said view.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

IIRC, the Paceys under the umbrella of the Heritage Trust opposed the Kings Wharf towers in Dartmouth at the public hearing. Too TALL!!! was their complaint. I believe they may have been the only persons, perhaps with one other naysayer, to speak against it, while the preponderance of speakers were strongly in favor. I believe the HT thinks that seeing tall structures from Citadel Hill is just as bad as having tall structures block said view.

As I recall you maybe mostly correct. I think there were a few cranky old people from the adjacent high density building that opposed it too, but they were obvious nimbys. If memory serves, King's Wharf was given an almost unanimous approval.

The HT trust game on tall buildings has been their standard catch all argument, which more and more progressive minds on council are obviously ignoring. But my feeling on their 'game' is to play it and play it hard. The HT and Bev Miller all argued that Quinpool and Agricola areas are where tall buildings should be, because they wouldn't impact the view. So I say, let's play that game. Do a huge policy and design exercise and let those areas go to 40 stories. Because the Pacey's will be the first ones out to say they are against it, particularly Quinpool - since they live a couple blocks up from it. Then you can firmly establish that they are just a nimby group.

[halifaxboyns]

Well the proposed viewplane changes are now before Harbour East Community Council in this report. Looks like the Brightwood Viewplane is being blown away and 4 viewplanes from the commons are being retained. Interesting proposal...

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well the proposed viewplane changes are now before Harbour East Community Council in this report. Looks like the Brightwood Viewplane is being blown away and 4 viewplanes from the commons are being retained. Interesting proposal...

It seems as though the Brightwood viewplanes are just being replaced with other viewplanes in order to curb development. Allnovascotia.com interviewed a HRM planner and it seemed evident that the point was to protect Dartmouth from developers.

[Drybrain]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say: I understand the Citadel viewplanes and support them (with some qualifications).

I have NO idea why anyone would consider it important to see George's Island from a golf course in Dartmouth, however.

[ILoveHalifax]

I don't think that many people use the dartmouth Common, that we need to start preserving view plains from there. Why don't we just let people enjoy the views from the towers we could build along the waterfront. This city has too many view plains.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

It seems as though the Brightwood viewplanes are just being replaced with other viewplanes in order to curb development. Allnovascotia.com interviewed a HRM planner and it seemed evident that the point was to protect Dartmouth from developers.

Yes, because the empty gravel lots and rundown old buildings are such an asset...