HOUSTON | Development Thread II - Page 605

bilbao58 · #**12081** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc

Austin's construction boom is largely residential and their economy seems to be more diverse than Houston's was during the 70's and early 80's...which lived and breathed all things oil.

Let's not forget the Texas banking crisis of the 1980s. The two tallest towers in Houston (plus the proposed-but-never-built very tallest) were not built for oil companies, they were for banks. Texas had a huge banking industry up until its collapse in the 80s.

https://www.fool.com/investing/gener...-the-1980.aspx

bilbao58 · #**12082** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 5:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Best Forumer

Let's hope it will be that and more... say... at least 600 feet tall...

I would think the FAA would balk at a 600-footer interfering with a busy flightpath to Hobby.

IMBY · #**12083** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCReid

Austin's downtown was not 'nothing' but has gotten very big skyscrapers that altered the skyline.
Houston has not done too bad with downtown skyscrapers, but it had some big ones from the 1970s/80s so the new ones don't alter the skyline. Dallas seems to have gotten hardly nothing major downtown since its 80s boom. It's kind of surprising but perhaps the metro has always been more sprawling than the other TX cities

Of the big cities in TX, IMO, San Antonio's skyline I deem almost pathetic and embarrassing. The Dallas skyline is lacking, lacking something, never found the Dallas skyline attractive. Never much cared for the Austin skyline even with the new towers. Houston, in my books, is the clear cut winner for an attractive skyline. A sucker for curved buildings, Houston has them in the downtown area and elsewhere.

Dallas' tallest looks cheap, as if the developer was on a tight budget. It's a shame it's the focal point of the skyline.

TexasPlaya · #**12084** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 6:58 PM**

I still like Houston's downtown skyline the best, but Austin and DFW have done much better with the areas immediately next to downtown. Midtown, Eastside, and "Near West" are pretty underwhelming compared to their peers in Texas. The freeways and the still active heavy industry just really make it disjointed.

Houston downtown pre-Covid was really getting its legs, but went over the weekend for an Astros game and it didn't have nearly the same energy and crowds.

bilbao58 · #**12085** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Houston downtown pre-Covid was really getting its legs, but went over the weekend for an Astros game and it didn't have nearly the same energy and crowds.

It also, of course, depends on the time of year. I was last there in February of 2020. Discovery Green was hopping. I wouldn't necessarily expect the same energy in hot weather...even if it has been less hot than usual lately...even here in San Antonio. Highs in the 80s in mid-July is...just...weird. But I'm not complaining.

TexasPlaya · #**12086** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 7:09 PM**

Also West Dallas in Montrse is booming, there's like 3 mixed use developments plus several separate apartment boxes. My buddy lives right there and that area is going to be really interesting in about 2 years when it's built out.

TexasPlaya · #**12087** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 7:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbao58

It also, of course, depends on the time of year. I was last there in February of 2020. Discovery Green was hopping. I wouldn't necessarily expect the same energy in hot weather...even if it has been less hot than usual lately...even here in San Antonio. Highs in the 80s in mid-July is...just...weird. But I'm not complaining.

Just a different weekend vibe at 9/10pm in downton verses pre covid.

JManc · #**12088** Posted **Jul 12, 2021, 9:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I still like Houston's downtown skyline the best, but Austin and DFW have done much better with the areas immediately next to downtown. Midtown, Eastside, and "Near West" are pretty underwhelming compared to their peers in Texas. The freeways and the still active heavy industry just really make it disjointed.

Houston downtown pre-Covid was really getting its legs, but went over the weekend for an Astros game and it didn't have nearly the same energy and crowds.

And the view coming up 45S is the best angle. Looks massive from that perspective especially with much of the new developments on that side of town.

DCReid · #**12089** Posted **Jul 13, 2021, 1:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbao58

Let's not forget the Texas banking crisis of the 1980s. The two tallest towers in Houston (plus the proposed-but-never-built very tallest) were not built for oil companies, they were for banks. Texas had a huge banking industry up until its collapse in the 80s.

https://www.fool.com/investing/gener...-the-1980.aspx

And banks loaned to oil companies, which is why most (if not all) of the TX went under with the bust. I read Houston was 80% dependent on energy then. I am not sure what is it now - 30-35% maybe? Probably still to much given the industry's longer term prospects.

photoLith · #**12090** Posted **Jul 13, 2021, 2:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by N90

All three of ATX, HOU, and DAL have changed a lot in the core. Just in different ways.

Dallas, 2001 to 2021 (20 year change)

Thats absolutely insane, a much bigger change than downtown Houston as Houston didn't have such a huge chunk of undeveloped land next to downtown. On a side note, why do we never see Dallas updates on here, do they have their own development forum or something like Ohio has?

photoLith · #**12091** Posted **Jul 13, 2021, 2:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMBY

Of the big cities in TX, IMO, San Antonio's skyline I deem almost pathetic and embarrassing. The Dallas skyline is lacking, lacking something, never found the Dallas skyline attractive. Never much cared for the Austin skyline even with the new towers. Houston, in my books, is the clear cut winner for an attractive skyline. A sucker for curved buildings, Houston has them in the downtown area and elsewhere.

Dallas' tallest looks cheap, as if the developer was on a tight budget. It's a shame it's the focal point of the skyline.

San Antonio has the crapiest skyline for sure and is pathetic for its size, but it for sure has the best downtown with a huge amount of its historic architecture preserved and is the most lively of all Texas downtowns.

Nautica · #**12092** Posted **Jul 13, 2021, 11:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith

Thats absolutely insane, a much bigger change than downtown Houston as Houston didn't have such a huge chunk of undeveloped land next to downtown. On a side note, why do we never see Dallas updates on here, do they have their own development forum or something like Ohio has?

Dallas forumers post on their own website: Dallas Metropolis.com

Dariusb · #**12093** Posted **Jul 13, 2021, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith

Thats absolutely insane, a much bigger change than downtown Houston as Houston didn't have such a huge chunk of undeveloped land next to downtown. On a side note, why do we never see Dallas updates on here, do they have their own development forum or something like Ohio has?

Damn! I wonder what it will look like in the next 20 years?

The Best Forumer · #**12094** Posted **Jul 13, 2021, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dariusb

Damn! I wonder what it will look like in the next 20 years?

Dont know... but Im sure we'll get another tallest. It might even be in midtown somewhere near the light rail line. I'm willing to bet there will be a lot more towers along Allen/Memorial Parkway, Galleria, Greenway Plaza as well.

And the TMC... don't even get me started on the TMC. I'm sure it will rival almost all the other DTs in the US by then.

Houston > *

bilbao58 · #**12095** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 12:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith

Thats absolutely insane, a much bigger change than downtown Houston as Houston didn't have such a huge chunk of undeveloped land next to downtown. On a side note, why do we never see Dallas updates on here, do they have their own development forum or something like Ohio has?

Ummm...I've highlighted in red the buildings built in downtown Houston in the same time period on this out-of-date aerial view.

[url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/23333264@N00/3k33X8]

The two aerial views taken from Google Maps do not even include the two buildings under construction in the center of this photo taken by Marc Longoria and posted on Flickr.
Nor do they include the 42-story residential tower currently going up near Discovery Green Park.

Houston 4th of July! by Marc longoria, on Flickr

In the time period in question, 4 buildings over 600 feet tall have been built. 2 of those buildings are over 700 feet tall.

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.
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The words "Dallas," "much," "bigger," "than," and "Houston" strung together in that order are fightin' words. Any Texan will tell you that. At least any Texan with a lick of sense. (J/K, of course. Or am I?)

N90 · #**12096** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 1:21 AM**

The top picture is nice, you should’ve left it at that. The bottom picture with all those visible parking lots is giving me an insane headache just looking at it.

I’m not trying to be critical because the point I wanna emphasize is that top picture does very well highlighting all the changes in DT HOU in 20 years. If you went back 2 years to 1999 then you could add in Minute Maid Park too.

bilbao58 · #**12097** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 1:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by N90

The top picture is nice, you should’ve left it at that. The bottom picture with all those visible parking lots is giving me an insane headache just looking at it.

I’m not trying to be critical because the point I wanna emphasize is that top picture does very well highlighting all the changes in DT HOU in 20 years. If you went back 2 years to 1999 then you could add in MInute Maid Park too.

I wanted to show Discovery Green and surroundings. Don't worry too much about the empty lots...their days are numbered.

ETA: And at least one of those parking lots, the one near the abandoned Holiday/Days Inn, is now a mid-rise apartment complex under construction.
I'm sure there are others I've missed as well...I haven't been home since February of 2020.

N90 · #**12098** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 1:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbao58

I wanted to show Discovery Green and surroundings. Don't worry too much about the empty lots...their days are numbered.

I subscribe to this belief too.

Let those surface lots die, not a soul will mourn their demise.

bilbao58 · #**12099** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 1:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by N90

Let those surface lots die, not a soul will mourn their demise.

The unmanned ones do make good launching bases for drones...though I have yet to have the pleasure of droning in Houston.

llamaorama · #**12100** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 1:42 PM**

The thing you have to remember about Dallas vs Houston is that Dallas has this whole other old school major city next door called Fort Worth.

DFW’s combined population has always been bigger than Houston but Dallas alone was quite a bit smaller.