California High Speed Rail Thread

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by electricron

Train speeds on that section of track determines when the FRA requires grade separation at street or highway intersections or crossings. Trains can go 110 mph using signalized grade crossings. CHSR trains on Caltrain owned tracks will not be going faster than 110 mph.
Grade separation crossings can be very expensive in urban areas with tight clearances. CHSR should only pay for stuff needed to run HSR trains, not subsidizing local communities vehicles get across the tracks.

Yes, who pays for separated grade crossings usually falls upon taxpayers eventually. But it does matter which budget the public funds comes from.

In theory, the law allows grade crossings up to 125mph, but in practice FRA has not permitted this type of operation. The law requires "advanced crossing protection systems" for 125mph but doesn't specify what those might be. It is not simply a matter of doing four-quadrant gates, which are required for 110mph. Maybe something like this crossing in Uzbekistan, with military-style popup barriers and K-rail to prevent drive-arounds.

If FRA does eventually allow 125mph grade crossings, it will likely be in rural areas at low-traffic crossings, not a continuous 60-mile stretch of congested suburbia like the SF Peninsula.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by ardecila

In theory, the law allows grade crossings up to 125mph, but in practice FRA has not permitted this type of operation. The law requires "advanced crossing protection systems" for 125mph but doesn't specify what those might be. It is not simply a matter of doing four-quadrant gates, which are required for 110mph. Maybe something like this crossing in Uzbekistan, with military-style popup barriers and K-rail to prevent drive-arounds.

If FRA does eventually allow 125mph grade crossings, it will likely be in rural areas at low-traffic crossings, not a continuous 60-mile stretch of congested suburbia like the SF Peninsula.

It is pretty embarrassing that Uz-beki-beki-beki-stan has high-speed rail but the United States doesn't.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by ardecila

If FRA does eventually allow 125mph grade crossings, it will likely be in rural areas at low-traffic crossings, not a continuous 60-mile stretch of congested suburbia like the SF Peninsula.

What is the stopping distance for a commuter/HSR intercity passenger train at those speeds, assuming level and dry track?

I watched a really interesting video awhile back that described how the capacity of an HSR system is determined by the steepest downhill slope on the line. Obviously, a train's stopping distance increases when traveling downhill, but it increases dramatically when the tracks are wet.

This means huge money must be spent reducing grades in order to maintain a high enough capacity to justify a line's construction.

[202_Cyclist]

Clear Victory for High-Speed Rail as State Budget is Approved

Streetsblog
By Roger Rudick
June 30, 2022

"Lawmakers voted and approved a $308 billion state budget on Wednesday that includes $4.2 billion for completion of the Central Valley spine of the California high-speed rail project. The state can now move forward purchasing trains, building tracks, and fully electrifying over 100 miles of right of way.

“We’re thrilled that California’s political leaders are ratifying the will of the voters by advancing funding for the state’s high-speed rail project,” said Sean Jeans-Gail, Vice President of Government Affairs at the Rail Passengers Association in Washington D.C. “Now, we’re calling on those same leaders, in partnership with the California High-Speed Rail Authority, to accelerate construction on this corridor.”

‘This is America’s most important public infrastructure project that will redirect the nation into a clean, green 21st century,” said Andy Kunz of the U.S. High-speed Rail Association. “We commend California’s leaders for having the vision to boldly plan for a better future..."

https://cal.streetsblog.org/2022/06/...t-is-approved/

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Clear Victory for High-Speed Rail as State Budget is Approved

Streetsblog
By Roger Rudick
June 30, 2022

"Lawmakers voted and approved a $308 billion state budget on Wednesday that includes $4.2 billion for completion of the Central Valley spine of the California high-speed rail project. The state can now move forward purchasing trains, building tracks, and fully electrifying over 100 miles of right of way.

“We’re thrilled that California’s political leaders are ratifying the will of the voters by advancing funding for the state’s high-speed rail project,” said Sean Jeans-Gail, Vice President of Government Affairs at the Rail Passengers Association in Washington D.C. “Now, we’re calling on those same leaders, in partnership with the California High-Speed Rail Authority, to accelerate construction on this corridor.”

‘This is America’s most important public infrastructure project that will redirect the nation into a clean, green 21st century,” said Andy Kunz of the U.S. High-speed Rail Association. “We commend California’s leaders for having the vision to boldly plan for a better future..."

https://cal.streetsblog.org/2022/06/...t-is-approved/

Great news!

[MAC123]

This means the central valley portion is basically guaranteed to be completed. And if the state matches federal funds we may see the next portion get started (San Jose to Merced?)

[TWAK]

From the blog post:

“Unfortunately, we lost in the trial court. We appealed. We lost in the appellate court,” wrote the Community Coalition, a San Mateo based-group that helped launch one of many lawsuits against the project, in an email to its members. Their appeal to the California Supreme Court was rejected, meaning the main legal challenges to HSR are now dead.

What a bunch of assholes.

[Busy Bee]

“Unfortunately, we lost in the trial court. We appealed. We lost in the appellate court,” wrote the Community Coalition, a San Mateo based-group that helped launch one of many lawsuits against the project, in an email to its members. Their appeal to the California Supreme Court was rejected, meaning the main legal challenges to HSR are now dead."

What a sad life you must lead to dedicate so much time and energy against a clear public good. I know it "takes all kinds" but sometimes I wish I could jettison people like this into space.

[ocman]

It’s such a huge struggle and fight just to get a few billion from the feds for this (when they should be paying for the whole damn thing if this were a proper country).

[TowerDude]

I'd still say improving and upgrading the Northeast Corridor is at least slightly more important to the country's than California's High Speed Rail project is. The Northeast Corridor's population is over 82 million.

[ocman]

Originally Posted by TowerDude

I'd still say improving and upgrading the Northeast Corridor is at least slightly more important to the country's than California's High Speed Rail project is. The Northeast Corridor's population is over 82 million.

But that’s my point. Why does it matter that other areas are more needy? We are brainwashed into this system where states provide the bulk of financing and consider it a gift that the feds give us anything. Really, the feds should be taking the bulk of financing for something considered basic in other countries, but weve been brainwashed into believing its some type of privilege and they owe us nothing.

[Busy Bee]

Federal gov should be offering 80/20 split to every worthy needed project.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by TowerDude

I'd still say improving and upgrading the Northeast Corridor is at least slightly more important to the country's than California's High Speed Rail project is. The Northeast Corridor's population is over 82 million.

Agreed, but the two corridors are technically apples/oranges in the same way that CAHSR vs. LOSSAN are apples/oranges.

And I'll reiterate while I have the floor that CAHSR will upgrade a significant chunk of the LOSSAN corridor, specifically the stretch between Burbank and Anaheim.

[TowerDude]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Agreed, but the two corridors are technically apples/oranges in the same way that CAHSR vs. LOSSAN are apples/oranges.

And I'll reiterate while I have the floor that CAHSR will upgrade a significant chunk of the LOSSAN corridor, specifically the stretch between Burbank and Anaheim.

They should also work on increasing the speed of the LA - San Luis Obispo section to 125 mph.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by TowerDude

They should also work on increasing the speed of the LA - San Luis Obispo section to 125 mph.

It's roughly 100 miles from Santa Barbara to LA Union Station. Just getting that stretch upgraded to 125mph electric would improve service into LA for everyone to the north. It's interesting to think about electrifying that line all the way north to Gilroy, but that would be a little over 300 miles of electrification, so a big, big project. They'd probably want to dig a 3~mile tunnel to avoid the climbs and switchbacks at San Luis Obispo. They could turn the existing line into a pretty nice rec trail.

[eltodesukane]

This high-speed rail project is a warning for the US
California's "train to nowhere" shows the challenges ahead.
Vox Video - Jul 29, 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0dSm_ClcSw

China can do, but US can not.

[MAC123]

Another video lamenting the route that goes where people live.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

This high-speed rail project is a warning for the US
California's "train to nowhere" shows the challenges ahead.
Vox Video - Jul 29, 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0dSm_ClcSw

China can do, but US can not.

Nonsense.

[jmecklenborg]

They somehow completely miss the fact that there will be express trains that won't stop in the Central Valley cities.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by MAC123

Another video lamenting the route that goes where people live.

I think the goal is to not have it built, since the other option is actually having it be a train to nowhere (like along I-5). Well a train going through nowhere...