CFL in the Maritimes

[CFL-EXPANDER]

WINNIPEG STADIUM - The structure is 45 million, the balance 60 to 80 million is all the amenities and infrastructure cost.

All the bells and whistles and luxuries spouted.

The dome info I've seen is much simpler, making it realistic.

But they do have plans for a much more attractive tiered stadium with its own bells and whistles, the final layout will depend on the funding made available.

The bodies handling this start out with plan A, with options for plan B or C. Instead of starting with the pie in the sky and down grading they like to up grade.

Does that make sense?

[isaidso]

$45 million for the structure? That seems awfully cheap even if it's just the skeleton and doesn't include seating, washrooms, glass, etc. I would have thought that the structural component would have been around 80% of the cost.

[MonctonRad]

CFL's Cohon spreads credit
Published Tuesday October 20th, 2009

Commissioner careful when discussing league expansion
Neil Hodge

It will be remembered as something significant that happened during the Mark Cohon era.

He will go down in history as the person in the commissioner's chair for the first-ever Canadian Football League regular season game in Atlantic Canada. The Toronto Argonauts will be the home team for a contest that will be played next September in Moncton.

"I don't think about what it means for me or my own legacy,'' he said. "I think about it in the context of what it means for the league. I sit in this chair as league commissioner, but I also sit in this chair as a fan. This game in Moncton is going to be a tremendous event.

"It wouldn't have happened if a lot of people hadn't stepped up to the plate. The league's board of governors had to believe in it. Argonauts ownership had to believe in it. It wouldn't have happened without the support of federal and provincial governments and City of Moncton.''

The date for the game and Toronto's opponent will be revealed in early 2010 when the league schedule for next season is finalized. There are indications it will likely be a Sunday afternoon contest and the second team will probably come from the Western Division.

The new Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium will have a 20,000 capacity for this game. The facility has been built so that bleachers could potentially be added down the road and the capacity expanded to at least 25,000.

Tickets are expected to go on sale in mid February. The prices haven't been confirmed, but they will be in line with CFL regular season games in other markets. To receive the latest information as it becomes available, fans can sign up at CFL.ca/Moncton.

Cohon, the son of McDonald's of Canada founder George Cohon, became the CFL's 12th commissioner in 2007.

He and his predecessors have often been asked about the league's desire to return to Ottawa and the possibility of expansion into Quebec City and Atlantic Canada. He has a methodical approach and wants to make sure everything is in order before jumping the gun.

Cohon has been thoughtful when talking about league expansion, making sure he acts carefully. But you get the feeling this is an important file for both him and the league's board of governors.

Ottawa has been granted a conditional franchise for 2013 if the stadium is in place. Moncton is getting a regular season game and many are hoping this will be the beginning of bigger things between the CFL and Atlantic Canada.

Moncton is looking to stage one regular season game per year for the next five years. The city is working with the federal and provincial governments, who are combining to contribute $1.5 million to make next year's game here a mini Grey Cup weekend filled with community events.

This has renewed talk about the possibility of a Moncton-based Atlantic CFL franchise some day.

The argument has always been that Moncton is the geographic centre of the Maritimes and it has a large population catchment area in the region.

Cohon has stated "It's not about expansion, not right now'' when talking about the Moncton game. "It's telling Atlantic Canadians they deserve to have a regular season game,'' he said. "I would like to make sure this game is a success and take it from one event into a multi-year commitment. If we can do that, that would be great.

"We know that football has strong roots in this region. We know there's lots of CFL fans in this part of the country. Atlantic Canada has always been reaching out to the league and this is a chance to pay back.''

CFL clubs have a $4.2 million salary cap and an average annual budget in the $13-14 million range. Teams receive 65 per cent of their revenue from ticket sales with the remainder coming from sponsorship, merchandising, concessions, parking and so forth.

Revenue generated from league level sponsors is equally divided among the eight franchises. Clubs get to keep all additional revenues that they generate from local level sponsors.

If the CFL expands, it needs to make sure that monies from league level sponsors also increases. That's because the central revenue pie would then be divided among more teams.

Ottawa will pay a $7 million expansion fee if it rejoins the league in 2013 to help offset this.

"You need to have the right facility,'' said Cohon. "I think about 25,000 seats is perfect. You need to have the right dedicated owners who are leaders in the community and understand how to take their influence and their passion and turn that into a successful franchise.

"You need to have a lot of corporate support. It's critical that you get local companies or the division offices of larger Canadian companies behind the team. Then you obviously need to fill the stands with fans.''

The Saskatchewan Roughriders are the model for a successful small-market franchise. They're the only professional sports team in the province and they have passionate fans who travel significant distances to attend their games.

An Atlantic franchise would have to carbon copy their model by drawing fan and corporate support from throughout the region. "The Roughriders are a community-owned team and that's been a big part of their success,'' said Cohon. "You can be a shareholder. You can buy a little piece of the franchise and the team's board reports to the community.

"They have been very smart about their marketing, how they reach out to their fans and creating Rider pride. This team is a great ambassador for the province. I think their success has to do with their grass roots approach and being in the community.''

CFL teams only play nine regular season home games in five months. It's also during a time of the year when there's good weather conditions for fans who drive long distances to attend games.

"It's about event marketing,'' said Cohon. "Our league is very successful at having both an urban and rural audience at the games.''

* Neil Hodge is a sports writer for the Times & Transcript.

[fenwick16]

Here is a dome for sale cheap in Pontiac Michigan. I don't mean to sound sarcastic but both Halifax and Regina need to avoid something like this that will become a white elephant in the future. On the other hand the proposed Blue Bombers Stadium is one that sounds far more reasonable (I don't consider the new Blue Bombers stadium to be a dome).

Dome for sale: Pontiac, Mich., has its landmark on the block
By Paul Vigna
October 07, 2009, 9:01PM

Anyone have money to burn on an unoccupied dome stadium?

According to a story by John Wisely of the Detroit Free Press, time is running out to buy the Pontiac Superdome, Michigan’s largest vacant home.

The home of the Detroit Lions from 1975 until 2002 will be sold next month to the highest bidder, no matter the bid, as the cash-strapped city looks to offload the $1.5-million annual upkeep costs at the empty facility.

Williams & Williams, based in Tulsa, Okla., is conducting the auction and accepting sealed bids through 4 p.m. Nov. 12. After that, the city has the option of inviting the top five bidders back for a live auction Nov. 16. Would-be bidders can tour the facility by appointment and they must pony up a $250,000 deposit — to show they are serious — but there is no minimum bid.

“We are excited about the upcoming sale of the Silverdome and finding a new owner who will become a key member of our community,” said Pontiac Emergency Financial Manager Fred Leeb. He said that the auction “illustrates our commitment to sell the stadium this year and convert an expense into a vibrant future development.”

The facility, which stands on 127 acres, has been used sporadically since 2002 when the Lions moved to Ford Field in downtown Detroit. Several efforts to redevelop it have fallen through, the story said. A $17.5-million plan to turn the stadium into a horse racetrack, hotel and conference center fell through last year and it’s unclear whether that options remains on the table.

"I just don’t know,” said Bloomfield Hills, Mich., attorney H. Wallace Parker, who was in charge of that effort.

The iconic building dominates the skyline of Pontiac, Mich., visible for several miles. Its namesake roof is made of fiberglass and suspended by positive air pressure in the building. With more than 80,000 seats, the building played host to a Super Bowl, an NBA All-Star game, a papal mass and Wrestlemania III.

“It’s a very important piece of property for Pontiac, but I think it’s important for Oakland County as well,” said Doug Smith, the county’s director of economic development. “It sits right out there at the intersection of M-59 and I-75.”

Battered by auto retrenchment and declining home values, Pontiac’s finances are so weak that Gov. Jennifer Granholm appointed Leeb to fix them. Leeb approved the auction after the county and Mayor Clarence Phillips couldn’t agree on what to do with it.

If you want more information on the auction, go to www.williamsauction.com/silverdome

source: http://blog.pennlive.com/fanbox/2009..._mich_has.html

[q12]

This new Winnipeg Stadium is a good model that would work for Halifax. I like this size and it would be available for the Huskies to use as well. The question is where to put it and how we get some interest generated by politicians to make it a reality.

Detailed Overview of Stadium & Multi-Sport Complex

Premium Year-Round, Multi-Use Stadium:

* 30,000 spacious seats with cup holders - expandable to 45,000 seats
* Sunken playing field, 25 foot below grade
* Completely enclosed bowl plus overhead weather protection for 80% of fans
* Covered, grade level concourse with sweeping 360 views of field from concession areas
* Escalators & accessibility based on Canadian Disability Standards
* Seasonal inflatable "Bubble" for amateur sports & community recreation
* Top quality concessions featuring traditional & healthy living choices
* Enhanced washroom facilities
* Private suites and group event facilities
* Permanent Blue Bomber Hall of Fame & upgraded Blue Bomber & Bison retail store
* Dedicated Elite Training Centres for exclusive use by Bombers & Bisons

Better Deal for Taxpayers:

* $100 million plus private sector investment
* A 50% reduction in the contribution originally requested from taxpayers due to the retail development and economic engine at Polo Park that underpins the stadium development
* Estimated 1,468 person-years of employment and $26.2 million in new tax revenues
* $35 million in joint support from the Government of Canada and Province of Manitoba. Federal funding will be strictly limited to the amateur and community sport venues.

Sports Entertainment & Fan Services:

* Integrated football theme across stadium site
* On site food service kiosks
* Restaurant & Sports lounge

[isaidso]

Which site locations have been discussed? Burnside close to the Bedford Basin? Near Bayers Lake Industrial Park? Are there any downtown Halifax locations being considered? What about that field between Saint Mary's University and Dalhousie University? A stadium there could be used as an on campus college football stadium for SMU, a stadium for a CFL team, and also be impetus for the re-establishment of football at Dal. 17 major football games/year is far better than most football stadia get.

4 SMU games
4 Dal games
9 CFL games

+ Playoff games

[CFL-EXPANDER]

In Winnipeg and this will never be built as shown, problems already.
Shame beautiful stadium, there for the unavailing. Made our mouth water.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by CFL-EXPANDER

In Winnipeg and this will never be built as shown, problems already.
Shame beautiful stadium, there for the unavailing. Made our mouth water.

Details?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by CFL-EXPANDER

In Winnipeg and this will never be built as shown, problems already.
Shame beautiful stadium, there for the unavailing. Made our mouth water.

To me it looks like a fantastic stadium but I wonder if they can really do it at the estimated cost. I especially like the way that the roof is supported. In Halifax, to keep the cost down, I wonder if they could have a more traditional design for the roof sections, with the roof supports as part of the seating section of the stadium.
Regarding the location, is there any room on the Halifax commons? This location worked well with regards to traffic flow for large concerts (example the Paul McCartney concert). The commons is mainly softball diamonds which could be relocated to the suburbs. According to wikipedia, it was previously a much larger area that has been used for many institutional purposes.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

This new Winnipeg Stadium is a good model that would work for Halifax. I like this size and it would be available for the Huskies to use as well. The question is where to put it and how we get some interest generated by politicians to make it a reality.

Detailed Overview of Stadium & Multi-Sport Complex

Premium Year-Round, Multi-Use Stadium:

* 30,000 spacious seats with cup holders - expandable to 45,000 seats
* Sunken playing field, 25 foot below grade
* Completely enclosed bowl plus overhead weather protection for 80% of fans
* Covered, grade level concourse with sweeping 360 views of field from concession areas
* Escalators & accessibility based on Canadian Disability Standards
* Seasonal inflatable "Bubble" for amateur sports & community recreation
* Top quality concessions featuring traditional & healthy living choices
* Enhanced washroom facilities
* Private suites and group event facilities
* Permanent Blue Bomber Hall of Fame & upgraded Blue Bomber & Bison retail store
* Dedicated Elite Training Centres for exclusive use by Bombers & Bisons

Better Deal for Taxpayers:

* $100 million plus private sector investment
* A 50% reduction in the contribution originally requested from taxpayers due to the retail development and economic engine at Polo Park that underpins the stadium development
* Estimated 1,468 person-years of employment and $26.2 million in new tax revenues
* $35 million in joint support from the Government of Canada and Province of Manitoba. Federal funding will be strictly limited to the amateur and community sport venues.

The idea of a sunken bowl should greatly reduce the cost since the outer exposed walls for the stadium will be much lower and therefore require fewer materials. With a sunken bowl, I imagine that the lower bowl of stands also serves as a retaining wall for the excavated ground. Instead of a 25 foot sunken bowl they could go even deeper (say 40 - 50 feet). Even the concourse for the second tier of seating could be partly sunken (so the concourse with washrooms and canteens, is say 15-20 feet below ground level and then the playing field could be 25 feet below the concourse). Although the bedrock in the Halifax area would make excavation difficult, there may be natural areas that are already partly excavated, for example an old quarry. Does a quarry still exist in the Dartmouth Crossings area? Another advantage of a sunken bowl is that that the ground is a natural insulator and would make it warmer during the winter and cooler during the summer.

q12, to get this moving I think that CFL fans in the Halifax/Nova Scotia area will have to initiate it. Possibly even come up with ideas on the design and location. How about someone trying to get an excavation company interested? Is it possible to put a link to this tread in the Halifax section?

Another idea is to link the new stadium to existing facilities to share parking and washrooms to keep the cost down. Examples are the new Canada Winter Games location or Exhibition Park. Then have the facilities linked to share some of the infrastructure. Since the stadium will probably not make money it will be important to keep the cost down. An advantage of having it at Exhibition Park is that they could organize larger events for the Maritime Fair (for example, look at the Calgary Stampede).

Politicians will likely not show interest unless people in the Halifax area indicate that it is something that they are interested in. I think a new stadium is more important to the Halifax area than a new Metro Centre. Then the Halifax area will have two facilities for concerts. One for very large concerts (the new stadium) and another (the current Metro Centre) for medium size concerts. The CFL seems like a better fit for the Halifax area than the NHL. The NHL would be difficult to support since it would likely take about $50,000,000 annually (in ticket prices and corporate sponsorship) out of the local economy which would likely be taken from other entertainment venues such as restaurants and theater. I think that it is better for Halifax to maintain a very good variety of restaurants than to have the NHL. On the other hand the CFL would probably take less than $10,000,000 annually out of the local economy and still probably provide equal exposure across Canada where I think Halifax needs it the most.

[MonctonRad]

I'm not sure the heritage trust people in Halifax would be very happy with the idea of excavating the Halifax Commons...........

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm not sure the heritage trust people in Halifax would be very happy with the idea of excavating the Halifax Commons...........

It would be interesting to see their reaction.

I should have mentioned that the idea of a sunken bowl would be for outlying areas. However, I think that the Halifax Commons would be a great location for a stadium.

[hfx_chris]

You kidding? With the amount of fuss they raise for a weekend concert, the idea of giving up that space for a permanent venue would send them off the deep end for sure.

There's some renewed discussion going on now in the Halifax section thanks to fenwick16. Personally I hate the idea of it going out at Exhibition Park, that's such a difficult place to get in and out of, the Prospect Road backs up every time during the fall fair, imagine how it would be during a CFL game.
I think it really needs to be on a highway. I personally liked the Shannon Park site, but somebody mentioned the old quarry areas north of Dartmouth Crossing along hwy 102. I don't know what Dartmouth Crossing's plans are for development of that land, but it would be a great location for a stadium if you ask me, especially with the close proximity to the restaurants in the northern end of DC.

Another option being discussed is the area around the Halifax Forum, or the vacant land across Young Street, although I don't think that areas quite big enough.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

You kidding? With the amount of fuss they raise for a weekend concert, the idea of giving up that space for a permanent venue would send them off the deep end for sure.

There's some renewed discussion going on now in the Halifax section thanks to fenwick16. Personally I hate the idea of it going out at Exhibition Park, that's such a difficult place to get in and out of, the Prospect Road backs up every time during the fall fair, imagine how it would be during a CFL game.
I think it really needs to be on a highway. I personally liked the Shannon Park site, but somebody mentioned the old quarry areas north of Dartmouth Crossing along hwy 102. I don't know what Dartmouth Crossing's plans are for development of that land, but it would be a great location for a stadium if you ask me, especially with the close proximity to the restaurants in the northern end of DC.

Another option being discussed is the area around the Halifax Forum, or the vacant land across Young Street, although I don't think that areas quite big enough.

With regards to the Halifax commons, I realize that it likely will not happen, however, what a great location. I didn't realize that the Exhibition Park was difficult to get into, maybe it should be ruled out. It seems like the Forum lands and Dartmouth Crossings vicinity are the two best possibilities so far.

I think that this forum is a great way for people to become proactive regarding getting a stadium built in the Halifax area. Once it gets to say 200 posts, I think that it would be good to start contacting people who can actually start the ball rolling, for example in the Halifax Regional Council, Provincial government, Scott Ferguson, Trade Centre Limited, etc.They could be contacted by email and send a link to this thread (or probably the Halifax thread). Maybe a representative in Halifax could contact them in person. It would be great to get someone like Scott Ferguson involved in this discussion on Skyscraperpage (I don't think that this is too far fetched). I don't know him, but maybe there is someone on this forum who does. Also, does any Skyscraperpage forum-er know someone in the city council who would champion this cause?

[MonctonRad]

A recent photo of the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium, under construction for the 2010 World Junior Championships in Athletics, and soon to be the site for the first neutral site regular season game in the history of the CFL.


photo: Keith Hawkins on Flickr.

Capacity for the CFL game will be 20,000. This is only slightly less than the Molson's Stadium in Montreal. The Moncton stadium could be still further expanded to seat more than 25,000 fans.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A recent photo of the Stade Moncton 2010 Stadium, under construction for the 2010 World Junior Championships in Athletics, and soon to be the site for the first neutral site regular season game in the history of the CFL.


photo: Keith Hawkins on Flickr.

Capacity for the CFL game will be 20,000. This is only slightly less than the Molson's Stadium in Montreal. The Moncton stadium could be still further expanded to seat more than 25,000 fans.

Looks very good. I keep wondering why Halifax didn't build something like this.

Are these all folding seats? If they are, then $17 million sounds like a very low price to build this stadium. Does this price include the temporary seating also?

[MonctonRad]

Yep, 10,000 high quality plastic folding seats. I don't think the $17M includes the temporary bleachers, but I could be wrong.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Looks very good. I keep wondering why Halifax didn't build something like this.

It really seems that they are missing the boat on this one.

[Urban_Genius]

Nice looking stadium. Eerily similar to Saputo Stadium in Montreal. Why canadian cities are not jumping on this type of model is a bit surprising. May it will catch on.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Urban_Genius

Nice looking stadium. Eerily similar to Saputo Stadium in Montreal. Why canadian cities are not jumping on this type of model is a bit surprising. May it will catch on.

Excellent idea for Halifax. I like the covered stands. I would like to recommend this in the Halifax section also (New Stadium for Halifax).