CHICAGO | General Developments

[Chicago Shawn]

Unlike Chinatown, Devon still has quite a few old-timers around in West Ridge from when the neighborhood was not a thriving center of Indian-Pakistani culture; and these old timers are fiercely opposed to any intensification and up-zoning along Devon. Look at the the mountain of opposition which occurred over the garage and mixed-use building at Devon and Rockwell. Just about all of the political challenges to former alderman Bernard Stone (50th Ward) used development issues as a center piece of the campaign. I bet this is in part why we haven't see more intense development in the Devon Corridor over the course of the last 5 years.

[wierdaaron]

I haven't been to Chinatown many times (though I order delivery from there often) but, yeah, among younger people it's pretty well known that you can have a casual late night out there if need be, when the rest of town has closed up and gone to bed.

Imagine if downtown had that reputation. Or maybe still had that reputation.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

I haven't been to Chinatown many times (though I order delivery from there often) but, yeah, among younger people it's pretty well known that you can have a casual late night out there if need be, when the rest of town has closed up and gone to bed.

Imagine if downtown had that reputation. Or maybe still had that reputation.

Not really. People know that you can get cheap/cheap-ish chinese food there, but most don't know that you can get that. The ones who do are pretty much in like South Loop, Bridgeport, Chinatown, near IIT, etc. There's still a lot of people who don't go south of Roosevelt and think that riding the red line even to Chinatown is unsafe. I know people who have never even been to Chinatown (wtf?) and when I mention to others about the late night stuff, they hadn't a clue about that. There are numerous people in this city that literally think Chinatown must be kind of unsafe because it's south of Roosevelt - no joke.

[Via Chicago]

Originally Posted by marothisu

It's one of those things that if people only knew about it, they'd have even more visitors going down there at night.

It's like the one neighborhood of the city that people who stay in their little corners of Streeterville, Lakeview, etc don't realize is actually pretty damn vibrant. Plus, you have some good food and there's a bunch of options late night there.

I think plenty of people know about Chinatown..its not really a secret. But the fact remains that if you live on the far north side, its a hell of a haul to get down there on transit. No ones going to go that far out of their way just for a drunk meal. I think as Pilsen continues to become more of a destination, you'll also in turn seen Chinatown see increased activity. Most of the times Ive had late night dim sum its been after a long night at Skylark . Although its still kind of a weird walk down Cermak at night.

[ardecila]

Brendan Reilly has submitted a rezoning request to downzone a parcel at Randolph/Jefferson. Currently the lot is DX-7 along with most of the surrounding blocks, allowing for a sizable midrise to be built as-of-right. There was a condo proposal here back in the 2000s.


src

Reilly wants to change it to DS-3, which would cut the size of the potential building by more than half. It would eliminate the possibility of residential development, while opening up the site to auto bodies and strip malls. What the hell is he thinking? The only decent potential use for the site under DS-3 is a tiny-ass 3-story office building.

[the urban politician]

^. That is just a campaign donation waiting to happen. But I'm sure Mr D will put some sort of positive spin on it, explaining why Reilly was totally appropriate and justified in making that move

[BWChicago]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I'm sure Mr D will put some sort of positive spin on it, explaining why Reilly was totally appropriate and justified in making that move

All the baiting and fight picking on this thread is getting extremely tiresome.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

I think plenty of people know about Chinatown..its not really a secret. But the fact remains that if you live on the far north side, its a hell of a haul to get down there on transit. No ones going to go that far out of their way just for a drunk meal. I think as Pilsen continues to become more of a destination, you'll also in turn seen Chinatown see increased activity. Most of the times Ive had late night dim sum its been after a long night at Skylark . Although its still kind of a weird walk down Cermak at night.

But from an area like River North, it's not that far. It's 10 minutes on the red line. That's like going from Grand to Fullerton - it's barely anything. The cab ride is about the same, maybe 15 minutes and people do go further on both even when out drinking.

The thing is that people know Chinatown is there. I think it's like ingrained into the American psyche that a lot of large cities in the US has some sort of Chinatown. However, I'm constantly surprised by how many people I meet that say they've either never actually been to the one here, or have only been there once or twice ever even if they've been living here for 5+ years. The area can be vibrant, but believe me...there could and should be even more people down there and even more business. The area could really grow, and I think if motor row happens, along with the Marriott Marquis and new DePaul arena, it will bring even more people in.

There are some areas that are weird for sure - basically surface lots here and there, though one of them will have the new and cool library designed by SOM and that new hotel going in gets rid of a little bit too. You're right about Pilsen too - that crowd and Bridgeport (which Chinatown is leaking into and some parts are very Chinese now) will eat the place up. It would be kind of cool to see how far Chinese business expands down into Bridgeport too in a kind of continuous fashion from Chinatown, if at all.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by marothisu

There are some areas that are weird for sure - basically surface lots here and there, though one of them will have the new and cool library designed by SOM and that new hotel going in gets rid of a little bit too. You're right about Pilsen too - that crowd and Bridgeport (which Chinatown is leaking into and some parts are very Chinese now) will eat the place up. It would be kind of cool to see how far Chinese business expands down into Bridgeport too in a kind of continuous fashion from Chinatown, if at all.

^ Interesting that you mention Pilsen. In the building that I'm getting ready for apartments, the homeless squatter who used to live there once told me that a lot of young Chinese people would come to him asking him if apartments were available for rent in that particular building.

The interest is there, but change is slow. I looked at a few other buildings for sale in Pilsen and what I am learning is that the biggest barrier to gentrification isn't the city, or the Aldermen, it's the owners of the properties themselves. Many are reluctantly putting their properties up for sale either due to financial issues or because their families are forcing them to. They've owned these buildings for 10, 15, perhaps even 30 years, and have rented them out to hispanic people (many even illegal) for dirt cheap. They haven't raised rents and have developed a friendship with their tenants, and in return the tenants don't bug them too much about maintenance (we're talking major issues, such as broken drains leaking sewage into the basement). Cheap rents and no leases, with tolerance for drug use, in return for monthly rent payments at dirt cheap. It's a wonderful little equilibrium that nobody wants to see disturbed.

Any new buyer will almost certainly face DOB violations, and will have to bring these buildings up to code by tossing the space heaters, putting in new plumbing, electric, HVAC, 2" water service, etc at great expense. In return, they hike up rents and ask for leases and credit checks.

Change will happen, but this particular neighborhood will be digging in their heels all through the process..

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Marothisu, thanks for your perspective. I note many similar things in the Devon corridor, albeit less focus on late night activities (S Asian societies just don't tend to do late night stuff).

Yet new developments there are also rare to get off the ground. For example, a building that burned down there several years ago continues to remain a weedy lot.

Are lenders just hesitant to support development in these areas? Could it be the conservative, Midwestern mentality that still has a difficult time embracing diversity?

I'm not going to opine about racism here because to some degree there is justification for this hesitation. I'm recent years there have been South Asian developers who have committed fraud and fled the country, and I'm sure lenders were burned by this. Those butt-faces unfortunately bring a mentality that 'being overly clever for the sake of being clever' is the route to success. I wonder if a newer generation of S. Asian investors raised in the US, and adjusted to America's straight forward way of life, can demonstrate more reliability to the lending world? And of course with Chinatown there is See Wong, who has had his own difficulties.

I know quite a few Indians, they love to party.

[DonMendigo]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

I think plenty of people know about Chinatown..its not really a secret. But the fact remains that if you live on the far north side, its a hell of a haul to get down there on transit. No ones going to go that far out of their way just for a drunk meal. I think as Pilsen continues to become more of a destination, you'll also in turn seen Chinatown see increased activity. Most of the times Ive had late night dim sum its been after a long night at Skylark . Although its still kind of a weird walk down Cermak at night.

I've done the that same drunken walk from Skylark to Chinatown on Cermak but I just ended up eating at Lawrence's Fisheries.

Does the Randolph/Jefferson zoning downgrade apply to the small surface lot on the northwest corner of the intersection? I work in a building on the southeast block of that intersection. Kind of odd/sketchy to downgrade the zoning when the Catalyst (on the block to the southwest of the intersection) has just gone up.

[ardecila]

^ Yes, the lot in question is at the northwest corner.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by DonMendigo

Kind of odd/sketchy to downgrade the zoning when the Catalyst (on the block to the southwest of the intersection) has just gone up.

^ If you think about it, though, from the standpoint of motivators, it's really not odd at all.

If you are looking for future sites for development, then you look at where development is happening now. Catalyst is a large project, and there is good indication that this whole district is probably going to go at least partly residential over the next few years.

So if you want to have "control" over this process (whatever that means), you nip things in the bud by downzoning sites around it.

Either way, I just think preumptive spot zoning is wrong, wrong, wrong.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I know quite a few Indians, they love to party.

^ Of course they do, but they party where everyone else in the city does, not on Devon Ave.

Chinatown seems to be distinctly different in that it has its own late night lounges/restaurants (something I was not aware of until people on this forum mentioned this)

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Chinatown seems to be distinctly different in that it has its own late night lounges/restaurants (something I was not aware of until people on this forum mentioned this)

There's a few lounges and bars there, but not much. Some restaurants have the set up for the bar, but I don't think most of them are too busy. I know Tony Hu has a popular lounge there and everytime I've been to Sakura Karaoke Lounge, it's been pretty busy. On Chinese New Year last year, the models, designers, and owners for Akira were hanging out there too, not anywhere downtown.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by marothisu

But from an area like River North, it's not that far. It's 10 minutes on the red line. That's like going from Grand to Fullerton - it's barely anything. The cab ride is about the same, maybe 15 minutes and people do go further on both even when out drinking.
...

Key difference is the lack of street-hailable cabs in Chinatown. You can always call for one or use Uber, but if you go to Fullerton you can just hail a cab to get home. If you go to Chinatown, good luck with that.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by emathias

Key difference is the lack of street-hailable cabs in Chinatown. You can always call for one or use Uber, but if you go to Fullerton you can just hail a cab to get home. If you go to Chinatown, good luck with that.

Sure, I agree that there's less cabs in Chinatown, but I usually have no problem hailing one. Uber/UberX is easy too (and UberX is cheaper than a normal cab during normal non peak hours). This is no different than parts of the South Loop either where less cabs will be later at night. However, cabs go where the demand and people are. If Chinatown expanded even more and more people were there at night, known to the public, you bet your ass the cabs would follow.

[prelude91]

I visit Chinatown often as I own several buildings in Bridgeport and typically make a stop at one of my favorites for lunch on the way. Other than great food, I don’t see much appeal of Chinatown to an outsider (granted food is important), I find the neighborhood to be a bit visually…blah. Maybe it’s just me, but I would never consider taking the EL down to Chinatown, parking is easy, so I don’t think the access to the Red Line is much of a benefit to many Northsiders, at least for my circle of friends, and as Emathias said, the cab situation in Chinatown sucks. It’s great for lunch or dinner but I don’t see it becoming some nightlife destination spot.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Sure, I agree that there's less cabs in Chinatown, but I usually have no problem hailing one. Uber/UberX is easy too (and UberX is cheaper than a normal cab during normal non peak hours). This is no different than parts of the South Loop either where less cabs will be later at night. However, cabs go where the demand and people are. If Chinatown expanded even more and more people were there at night, known to the public, you bet your ass the cabs would follow.

Actually, in cities like Chicago I often use the spontaneous existence of taxicabs as one indicator of a neighborhood's gentrification. In Chicago it's a beautiful system that works fairly well, with some exceptions. The most noteworthy caveat is that it fails for neighborhoods that aren't contiguous with other gentrified ones (ie Hyde Park being most noteworthy). In addition, the taxicabs have to arrive spontaneously (empty and ready to be hailed) rather than dropping off passengers from another part of town.

This system works even better in Chicago than in New York, and I'd argue the taxicab-gentrification model is perfectly suited for Chicago. In New York cabs really tend to stick with Manhattan, venturing far, far less often to even wealthy & thriving areas of the outer boroughs.

In my observation, the one hood where taxicab frequency has increased the most in the past 10 years is the West Loop. And now with more restaurants, office space, and hotels on the way I expect it to simply explode with cab service.

[Buckman821]

I cannot access because it is behind a paywall, but the Chicago Tribune is reporting that Floors 2-9 of The Pittsfield Building at 55 E Washington is under contract to a hotel developer.

If so, it would be yet another adaptive reuse hotel project in the east loop.