Downtown Portland News

[maccoinnich]

Being near the bottom of the recovery rankings certainly isn't good, and I don't think it's wrong, but it's also worth considering that it's comparing each city's recovery to its own pre-covid activity level.

By that metric San Jose, for example, has one of the best recoveries in the nation and I'd rather spend time in Portland at its worst than San Jose at its best. Conversely, Seattle is shown slightly below Portland and their downtown is in better shape than ours, which is largely a function of it having much more pre-pandemic foot traffic.

[Derek]

Kind of anecdotal but I’m up in Seattle pretty regularly and their downtown area just seems completely lifeless. Big shiny glass towers, sure. Homeless presence/drug use isn’t as obvious/out in the open as much as downtown Portland. But general pedestrian street activity (outside of Pike’s Place) is pretty non existent from my personal experience.

[aquaticko]

^^I think to a certain extent that's because Seattle having a strong downtown is a relatively new thing, and a lot of the money downtown generates is still going out to suburban places where people coming in from are just less likely to be used to walking around to do stuff.

I'm only occasionally in Seattle's downtown, and that's usually to go from the Amtrak station to the bus stop to take me out to family in Issaquah. I can second the notion that it doesn't feel quite as busy as Portland's downtown, but I've spent more of my life experiencing downtown Boston, and at least pre-pandemic, it's obviously a more bustling place than either.

It is encouraging to think that more American regions seem to be actively concerned with how their core cities are faring than in the past.

[downtownpdx]

It seems like Portland's downtown success over the decades was a result of careful public planning, with projects like Pioneer Square, Waterfront Park, light rail, etc. Seattle, in my view, has never really put much emphasis on public space, but a lot of money and job growth from the likes of Amazon have resulted in a rapidly densifying residential core. Of course this isn't all by accident, and I'm sure zoning and some regulations helped this happen, but to me Portland has always had a much more intentional way of growing into a pedestrian friendly, easily accessible downtown.

[DMH]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

It seems like Portland's downtown success over the decades was a result of careful public planning, with projects like Pioneer Square, Waterfront Park, light rail, etc. Seattle, in my view, has never really put much emphasis on public space, but a lot of money and job growth from the likes of Amazon have resulted in a rapidly densifying residential core. Of course this isn't all by accident, and I'm sure zoning and some regulations helped this happen, but to me Portland has always had a much more intentional way of growing into a pedestrian friendly, easily accessible downtown.

What you are describing is exactly what I observed on my arrival here in 1976, fresh out of architecture school in California. Neil Goldschmidt, a relatively visionary mayor at that time before his ignominious fall, seemed to surround himself with forward-thinking planners. The fresh decision to abandon the Mt. Hood Freeway and build light rail instead, seemed like just one of many big moves. Closing Harbor Drive and creating Waterfront Park was also one of the big moves. The directors of Planning were much better known public figures who were comfortable pushing for good urban design. I was frequently in Seattle during those decades and never felt that our northern neighbor had a visionary planning dept.

[RED_PDXer]

Originally Posted by DMH

What you are describing is exactly what I observed on my arrival here in 1976, fresh out of architecture school in California. Neil Goldschmidt, a relatively visionary mayor at that time before his ignominious fall, seemed to surround himself with forward-thinking planners. The fresh decision to abandon the Mt. Hood Freeway and build light rail instead, seemed like just one of many big moves. Closing Harbor Drive and creating Waterfront Park was also one of the big moves. The directors of Planning were much better known public figures who were comfortable pushing for good urban design. I was frequently in Seattle during those decades and never felt that our northern neighbor had a visionary planning dept.

I definitely get that, but I feel like Portland planners have been resting on the laurels of their predecessors for decades. Help me see the light if I'm missing something, but I don't see anything innovative about the planning in downtown Portland or anywhere else in this city. The focus in the last couple decades seems to be on inclusivity and planning process, as opposed to a professionally-informed/experienced outcome. I regularly have meetings with Portland transportation and planning staff on various projects and it's so uninspiring I can barely sit through them. They only seemed to be interested in process. I'm quite amazed when a planning process in this city is completed and nearly completely unimpressed in the outcome. I'll admit that everyone in the process has lowered expectations given the other problems facing the city, but the lackluster central city plan was completed after a decade of process prior to the pandemic.

I recall a presentation by city planners to my work group about a decade ago about urban design and planning and I asked specifically about why doesn't the city consider developing public plazas to help create a sense of place using public ROW. This seemed like a no-brainer given our short block lengths the opportunity to create some special spaces within neighborhoods. It took a pandemic for them to finally consider it ten years later and make some rudimentary steps in that direction. It's still just paint on concrete and some traffic candlesticks, signs and picnic benches. Meanwhile, you could've found these places in Europe decades ago. I'm lowering my expectations year by year. Lately, I've tried to adopt a rust belt city level of expectations - maybe they'll get something right, some day.

[downtownpdx]

Yeah I can't even imagine a Pioneer Courthouse Square in Seattle. This isn't a knock on the city, but just an interesting thought - I really just don't think it's in their dna to put effort into something like that. Maybe it's the spectacular waterfront location and steep hillside views... why build something inwardly focused when the star attraction is found looking out to the water..? Haha I dunno just casually observing. Went to college there in the 90s and loved it but I missed the little things that make up Portland's charm.

[downtownpdx]

(Sorry that was supposed to be a response to DMH ). I agree that portland has definitely rested on its laurels in the recent past. Perhaps the recent years of crisis will help to light a fire, beginning with the new Darcelle plaza... went by the 9th Ave pedestrian frontage to The Ritz/ upcoming food hall on Monday and it looks really nice. Will that be a ped only block?

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Yeah I can't even imagine a Pioneer Courthouse Square in Seattle. This isn't a knock on the city, but just an interesting thought - I really just don't think it's in their dna to put effort into something like that. Maybe it's the spectacular waterfront location and steep hillside views... why build something inwardly focused when the star attraction is found looking out to the water..? Haha I dunno just casually observing. Went to college there in the 90s and loved it but I missed the little things that make up Portland's charm.

The Seattle Center (or whatever it's called) is pretty nice. And now that Amazon has moved in, it feels much more urban that I assume it was before all this new development (no idea what was there before). I went to a Kraken game last year (incredible and unique arena, btw) and the area was awesome. People out and about, concerts, the science center. Just positive vibes all around with much activity. Much better than the experience of going to Blazers games (I go often), which is just downright sad in comparison.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

The Seattle Center (or whatever it's called) is pretty nice. And now that Amazon has moved in, it feels much more urban that I assume it was before all this new development (no idea what was there before). I went to a Kraken game last year (incredible and unique arena, btw) and the area was awesome. People out and about, concerts, the science center. Just positive vibes all around with much activity. Much better than the experience of going to Blazers games (I go often), which is just downright sad in comparison.

Sad is an understatement to describe the rose quarter. Seattle demolishes Portland in a lot of things. It’s not even close. We can’t even compete with Bellevue let alone Seattle

[DMH]

To all of you who feel the urge to beat up on Portland at every turn, I would urge you to be constructive and join the effort to restore the life of the central city. I say 'central city' because so many Portland neighborhood commercial nodes have bounced back vigorously, in part because of Work from Home. In the past, I have seen waves of self-flagellation sweep over other US cities whenever deeply negative conditions have taken root (examples: San Francisco, New York). Portland has been my home during earlier dark days, such as the 1980s racist skinhead murder of Mulugeta Seraw. Today the public is well aware of what is wrong, and from my read of what community leaders are doing, we can observe incremental positive change. For instance, as a central city resident, without hesitation I can confirm that homeless camping has reduced greatly compared to homelessness one year ago. I believe that we all must be patient while also keeping the pressure on our community leaders to keep the foot on the gas pedal, avoid delays, and implement real solutions now.

[58rhodes]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

Sad is an understatement to describe the rose quarter. Seattle demolishes Portland in a lot of things. It’s not even close. We can’t even compete with Bellevue let alone Seattle

You should move up there. That seems like where you want to be.

[downtownpdx]

Originally Posted by DMH

To all of you who feel the urge to beat up on Portland at every turn, I would urge you to be constructive and join the effort to restore the life of the central city. I say 'central city' because so many Portland neighborhood commercial nodes have bounced back vigorously, in part because of Work from Home. In the past, I have seen waves of self-flagellation sweep over other US cities whenever deeply negative conditions have taken root (examples: San Francisco, New York). Portland has been my home during earlier dark days, such as the 1980s racist skinhead murder of Mulugeta Seraw. Today the public is well aware of what is wrong, and from my read of what community leaders are doing, we can observe incremental positive change. For instance, as a central city resident, without hesitation I can confirm that homeless camping has reduced greatly compared to homelessness one year ago. I believe that we all must be patient while also keeping the pressure on our community leaders to keep the foot on the gas pedal, avoid delays, and implement real solutions now.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Totally agree on all counts, street conditions are much improved (but the state legislature really needs to finally outlaw public drug use) and I truly believe we have bright days ahead in this city.

[downtownpdx]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

The Seattle Center (or whatever it's called) is pretty nice. And now that Amazon has moved in, it feels much more urban that I assume it was before all this new development (no idea what was there before). I went to a Kraken game last year (incredible and unique arena, btw) and the area was awesome. People out and about, concerts, the science center. Just positive vibes all around with much activity. Much better than the experience of going to Blazers games (I go often), which is just downright sad in comparison.

Not disagreeing with you on the Rose Quarter, but the two are hard to compare. Seattle Center was built as part of the '62 World Fair, with several tourist attractions like the Space Needle, the science museum etc, plus Amazon's development clustered near the arena. So lots of foot traffic whether there is a game or not. The Rose Quarter is sort of an island into itself, hemmed in by the freeway, and a grain elevator. I always enjoy the games but yeah it's a neighborhood that leaves much to be desired. Hopefully the redevelopment plans in this area come to fruition and bring it to life. I'd love to see that grain elevator go, with a riverfront entertainment area in its place. Think I've heard from someone here that the land constraints make unlikely... but would be nice!

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Not disagreeing with you on the Rose Quarter, but the two are hard to compare. Seattle Center was built as part of the '62 World Fair, with several tourist attractions like the Space Needle, the science museum etc, plus Amazon's development clustered near the arena. So lots of foot traffic whether there is a game or not. The Rose Quarter is sort of an island into itself, hemmed in by the freeway, and a grain elevator. I always enjoy the games but yeah it's a neighborhood that leaves much to be desired. Hopefully the redevelopment plans in this area come to fruition and bring it to life. I'd love to see that grain elevator go, with a riverfront entertainment area in its place. Think I've heard from someone here that the land constraints make unlikely... but would be nice!

I guess I was just referencing the district because people were saying Seattle had poor planning relative to Portland. Worlds fair or not, it’s a neat little area now, well landscaped, lively. Maybe it’s not officially “downtown”, although with all the development in Seattle over last 20 years, I’d argue it’s a contiguous area with downtown now.

My long term hope is Lloyd mall gets redeveloped, and gradually the empty/scary blocks of Broadway/Weidler begin to fill in, connecting Lloyd all the way to Moda/convention center as nice hub of activity. Pearl/slabtown type but with sports/conventions added. Such a low hanging fruit of a neighborhood ripe for wholesale change.

[eric cantona]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

My long term hope is Lloyd mall gets redeveloped, and gradually the empty/scary blocks of Broadway/Weidler begin to fill in, connecting Lloyd all the way to Moda/convention center as nice hub of activity. Pearl/slabtown type but with sports/conventions added. Such a low hanging fruit of a neighborhood ripe for wholesale change.

Add in in the Albina Vision Plan (including the removal of the PPS stuff) and the potential capping of I-5 in that area and you have tremendous potential for a truly dense and interesting neighborhood. I believe this area will be really amazing in the next decade, or so.

[pdxtex]

I moved here in 1997. In 1997 Portland didn't have:

The Pearl District, South Waterfront, an MLS team, a renovated airport, airport mass transit, a cross river street car, multiple new bridges, high density housing in nearly every close in neighborhood, multiple urban grocery stores, a vastly expanded urban college, an ever expanding Medical school and the Max only had one line. Portland has had some policy missteps but this place is infinitely better than its ever been.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

I moved here in 1997. In 1997 Portland didn't have:

The Pearl District, South Waterfront, an MLS team, a renovated airport, airport mass transit, a cross river street car, multiple new bridges, high density housing in nearly every close in neighborhood, multiple urban grocery stores, a vastly expanded urban college, an ever expanding Medical school and the Max only had one line. Portland has had some policy missteps but this place is infinitely better than its ever been.

Agree, but that seems to be right around the time period all the "I miss old Portland" folks pontificate about missing how "funky" this place used to be. How you could rent an apartment for $250/mo. etc.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Agree, but that seems to be right around the time period all the "I miss old Portland" folks pontificate about missing how "funky" this place used to be. How you could rent an apartment for $250/mo. etc.

Well put a bird on it was 10 years ago and even then was satire. Going forward, I'd rather Portland spend more time plugging into the national zeitgeist then trying to go it alone and be weird because commerce will pass us by. I was barely here for the "old" Portland. Downtown was already in a downward spiral by the end of 90s and picked up and moved across Burnside to the pearl where its doing fine. I guess if people want the "old" Portland there are still plenty of places to get a 2 dollar PBR. Ill take a modern Division over what it used to he any day. The demise of the Lloyd Center is still sad tho

[aquaticko]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Agree, but that seems to be right around the time period all the "I miss old Portland" folks pontificate about missing how "funky" this place used to be. How you could rent an apartment for $250/mo. etc.

My impression is exactly that: people harken back to when Portland wasn’t such a big city, instead of treating some of the negative aspects of that growth—high home prices and traffic being the two big ones—as soluble problems (which are ironically signs of metropolitan success) that have essentially-known fixes. The public drug use decriminalization seems like such an obvious misstep that worrying about accommodating it without even more radical socioeconomic and political changes is probably a waste of time.