St. Pauls at the Jim Pattison Medical Centre | U/C

[zahav]

I think there is plenty of park and rec space around downtown and vicinity, very close by to here too. I didn't mean no green space, but with land at such a scarcity and the ability to make something amazing, it is much better used as development than park

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

If COVID taught us anything it's that we've been ignoring the lack of park space for our densest neighbourhoods. Vancouver has a surprising lack of green space

Hot take!

[dleung]

Out of curiosity I test fit the site to what I thought was the maximum appropriate density that allows full retention of the heritage building and doesn't create shadows over Nelson park... roughly 1.9M square feet.

[Changing City]

Any chance conversations about the old St Paul's can go to the appropriate thread? Right now it's the Downtown thread, until it gets its own. As the hosputal use stays until at least 2026, that might be a bit premature.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by dleung

Out of curiosity I test fit the site to what I thought was the maximum appropriate density that allows full retention of the heritage building and doesn't create shadows over Nelson park... roughly 1.9M square feet.

Nice prelim rendering. I see it differently on how the ideal development would be like: three taller towers up to 50-60 stories max: large podiums connected to the old buiding. This would allow more space for podium roof parks, or even bistros and al fresco dining spaces. Less towers also mean more gaps to allow sunshine reaching Nelson Park, especially when the sun is quite low in the winter months.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Any chance conversations about the old St Paul's can go to the appropriate thread? Right now it's the Downtown thread, until it gets its own. As the hosputal use stays until at least 2026, that might be a bit premature.

I think it should probably get its own thread, just to keep the discussion in one place.
(i.e. we've had an NEFC thread with plans, but not development, for ages)

and speaking of NEFC, dleung's diagram above looks just as crowded as Concord's NEFC plan.
and I think narrow retail / restaurant alleys (like planned for NEFC) would do well on the St. Paul's site close of the West End's population base ("off-Davie").

Originally Posted by dleung

Out of curiosity I test fit the site to what I thought was the maximum appropriate density that allows full retention of the heritage building and doesn't create shadows over Nelson park... roughly 1.9M square feet.

[Prometheus]

dleung's conglomeration of stubby towers is the most likely (if not the only) outcome, given the city's obstinate stance on its tired height and shadow restrictions for our downtown.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by dleung

Out of curiosity I test fit the site to what I thought was the maximum appropriate density that allows full retention of the heritage building and doesn't create shadows over Nelson park... roughly 1.9M square feet.

What are tower spacings? Since this will be mostly residential that will be a factor. And What are the floor plate sizes? The West End OCP limits floor plates on this site to 7500 sq feet.

[dleung]

^^All the towers are 7000sf, except the tallest @ 10000sf, which I imagined was maybe office/mixed use, and had more generous public space around it to maximize views of the the old St Pauls. All the tower spacings are at least 80 feet (usually over 100 feet). i thought 6500sf was the Vancouver limit on floorplate size - unless it's been updated since I last worked in this market?

Anyway this is by no means a "dleung approved" urban design mass. I was mainly trying to figure out why concord paid 1 billion for the site when it clearly looks like they can't even reach 2 million square feet of build without getting too crowded.

[officedweller]

The City is more accepting of massings that diverge from the tower on podium format (i.e. Plaza of Nations and Concord NEFC),
and also accepting of the short, squat, wide, street-shadowing buildings that result from view cone compliance.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by dleung

^^All the towers are 7000sf, except the tallest @ 10000sf, which I imagined was maybe office/mixed use, and had more generous public space around it to maximize views of the the old St Pauls. All the tower spacings are at least 80 feet (usually over 100 feet). i thought 6500sf was the Vancouver limit on floorplate size - unless it's been updated since I last worked in this market?

Anyway this is by no means a "dleung approved" urban design mass. I was mainly trying to figure out why concord paid 1 billion for the site when it clearly looks like they can't even reach 2 million square feet of build without getting too crowded.

They will make money if they build to Butterfly type specs and sell for over $2000 a foot average.

The other answer is that they have reasonable assurances that a rezoning and relaxation is in the books.

Christy Clark flew to Hong Kong to meet with HK developers direct few years back to assure them their land holdings in Vancouver were safe during all the foreign buyers tax debates.

The NDP shifted the landscape no doubt - but there is no way they would be willing to upset the golden goose. I imagine that relationship still exists to a lesser degree.

[dleung]

They can have a couple of $2000psf buildings, but half a dozen clustered on a megablock, I'm not sure is realistic. Given the location in a transition zone to the smaller-scale West End built form, I think the density I sketched is already pushing it.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by dleung

this looks great. i think the overall massing is quite nice, and i like the heritage portion that was saved as well.

really well done, i think something along these lines to this being built would be quite nice.

[logan5]

Actually a decent model in order to visualize building orientation.

Myself, I would rather there be 5 taller towers around the perimeter as shown, and eliminate the ones in the middle. There would be less shadowing on the street as the taller towers would transfer that shadow to other buildings away from the street.

The shadowing rules are a bit of a sham. The amount of shadow is going to remain constant (given = density), it's just a matter of where you want to put them. Fatter mid-rise buildings create more shadow on the sidewalks.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dleung

... Given the location in a transition zone to the smaller-scale West End built form, I think the density I sketched is already pushing it.

There is that tall tower on the former Shell site at davie, plus there are some other towers proposed for south of Davie on Thurlow,
so there's not much transition north-south - just maybe to the west.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by dleung

They can have a couple of $2000psf buildings, but half a dozen clustered on a megablock, I'm not sure is realistic. Given the location in a transition zone to the smaller-scale West End built form, I think the density I sketched is already pushing it.

Oakridge type development?

Obviously who know where the market is, let alone the World, in 7 years given the state of 2020, but its not impossible that $2000 a foot for downtown condos is not outrageous by the time these buildings are close enough to reality.

[Changing City]

Dragging the thread back to the new hospital, on False Creek Flats, all the stored cars between Prior and the station have now gone. There are just a few left right at the back (east end) of the site. A civil engineering company were on site today with surveying equipment.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Dragging the thread back to the new hospital, on False Creek Flats, all the stored cars between Prior and the station have now gone. There are just a few left right at the back (east end) of the site. A civil engineering company were on site today with surveying equipment.

A bid will be picked by the end of the year as I understand it.

I wonder what the surveying involves, unless it's for other proposed projects on the same land.

[Feathered Friend]

Road network update from the Sept 28th, 2020 Civic Asset Naming Committee

THAT the north-south portion of the new street currently referred to as “High Street” be
named as an extension of Gore Avenue;

FURTHER THAT the north-south portion of the new street currently referred to as “Road
A” be named as an extension of Dunlevy Avenue;

AND FURTHER THAT the east-west portion of the new street currently referred to as
“Road A” be named as an extension of Atlantic Street.

CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

https://vancouver.ca/docs/council/cian20200928min.pdf

[logan5]

The new hospital will be larger than the current St. Pauls (I presume), but I don't remember how many people will be employed there. Never-the-less, that huge influx of people working at St. Pauls will transform the area. We should see a slew of new businesses moving in along Main, Gore, Georgia, and hopefully Keefer. It will start to happen relatively soon too, as there will be 1000's of people there for the construction of the hospital.

Right now I would consider Chinatown a functional neighbourhood, but it is still quite sketchy. The new St. Pauls, plus the development of the viaduct lands will transform Chinatown (with Pender Street being the centrepiece) into one of the most vibrant and character rich neighbourhoods in the country.