St. Pauls at the Jim Pattison Medical Centre | U/C

[Migrant_Coconut]

One whole metre? It'll take an act of God to make that work!

Originally Posted by fredinno

It would prevent any need for a new West End facility.

West Side, you mean? I believe part of the current St Paul's is staying, so the West End is covered. The Flats would prevent any need for a new East Side facility... one way or another, somebody's not getting full coverage.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

One whole metre? It'll take an act of God to make that work!



West Side, you mean? I believe part of the current St Paul's is staying, so the West End is covered. The Flats would prevent any need for a new East Side facility... one way or another, somebody's not getting full coverage.

Huh? The current St.Pauls will definitely not be staying, that’s why the new hospital has the same name. There are vague promises of an urgent care centre but the downtown peninsula will not have a hospital.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

One whole metre? It'll take an act of God to make that work!



West Side, you mean? I believe part of the current St Paul's is staying, so the West End is covered. The Flats would prevent any need for a new East Side facility... one way or another, somebody's not getting full coverage.

There were plans for some West End facility. Hence ‘new’ (or old, doesn’t matter, they don’t need anything in the West End if they went with Molson.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

There were plans for some West End facility. Hence ‘new’ (or old, doesn’t matter, they don’t need anything in the West End if they went with Molson.

If they went with Molson, they'd need something new in the East Side - there's definitely going to be demand for three hospitals in the years to come, and it's best that at least two of them have decent SkyTrain access.

[Tetsuo]

East side van is already underserved as is, Burnaby General bears the brunt of it.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If they went with Molson, they'd need something new in the East Side - there's definitely going to be demand for three hospitals in the years to come, and it's best that at least two of them have decent SkyTrain access.

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

East side van is already underserved as is, Burnaby General bears the brunt of it.

There’s already Providence’s other Hospital, Mt. St. Joseph, located 10 minutes walking from the new Main St. Millennium Line station, with enough parking/greenfield space around it that Providence owns to increase the hospital’s size by ~2.2x (more because of a Lack of View-cones on the site.)

Arguably Providence having 2 hospitals on the East Side is what’s superfluous, because chances are, they’ll have to expand both in the coming decades.
Though that makes me wonder why the option wasn’t considered already.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

There’s already Providence’s other Hospital, Mt. St. Joseph, located 10 minutes walking from the new Main St. Millennium Line station, with enough parking/greenfield space around it that Providence owns to increase the hospital’s size by ~2.2x (more because of a Lack of View-cones on the site.)

Arguably Providence having 2 hospitals on the East Side is what’s superfluous, because chances are, they’ll have to expand both in the coming decades.
Though that makes me wonder why the option wasn’t considered already.

Because there's a hospital on the site already, which they would have to replace somehow while they redeveloped it.

Because the site of Mount Saint Joseph's is a third of the size of the site that they're redeveloping on Station Street.

Because Mount St Joseph's is a lot further away from Downtown than their new site.

Because Molson's wasn't available to develop a new hospital, and isn't as good a location to build one as Station Street.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by fredinno

There’s already Providence’s other Hospital, Mt. St. Joseph, located 10 minutes walking from the new Main St. Millennium Line station, with enough parking/greenfield space around it that Providence owns to increase the hospital’s size by ~2.2x (more because of a Lack of View-cones on the site.)

Arguably Providence having 2 hospitals on the East Side is what’s superfluous, because chances are, they’ll have to expand both in the coming decades.
Though that makes me wonder why the option wasn’t considered already.

MSJ is almost redundant with the existence of VGH and the new st Paul's. It's got some deep roots in the community and has a few great programs, that's why it continues to exist.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Because there's a hospital on the site already, which they would have to replace somehow while they redeveloped it.

Because the site of Mount Saint Joseph's is a third of the size of the site that they're redeveloping on Station Street.

Because Mount St Joseph's is a lot further away from Downtown than their new site.

Because Molson's wasn't available to develop a new hospital, and isn't as good a location to build one as Station Street.

Build new annexes on the parking lots, as was done for the original St. Paul’s. Yes, St. Paul’s is the primary hospital (with better facilities), but the option is there to increase capacity elsewhere.

I’m pretty sure you didn’t even read the entire thread if you’re seriously stating that I don’t somehow know that Molson wasn’t available at the time of the proposal phase. The suggestion of Mt. St. Jospeh was in response to East Vancouver needing more hospital space.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Build new annexes on the parking lots, as was done for the original St. Paul’s. Yes, St. Paul’s is the primary hospital (with better facilities), but the option is there to increase capacity elsewhere.

I’m pretty sure you didn’t even read the entire thread if you’re seriously stating that I don’t somehow know that Molson wasn’t available at the time of the proposal phase. The suggestion of Mt. St. Jospeh was in response to East Vancouver needing more hospital space.

I've read the entire thread. You could add more buildings at Mount St Joseph, but it wouldn't create a replacement critical care hospital with all the facilities that are required, so it's irrelevant to the need to replace St Paul's.

Providence looked at trying to replace the hospital on its existing site, and couldn't find a way to do it that was more cost effective, or as good as building an entirely new facility on the much larger 18 acre site that had been acquired for them at a bargain basement price 15 years ago. Vin suggested they should build on a site that wasn't available at the time, that's just over 7 acres in size. You seem to want them to build something on the parking lots of a seven acre site that's already got a hospital on it.

Neither seems a better idea than a completely new hospital, on 11 floors, on a larger site in a more central location. The existing West End site is worth a lot more redeveloped as something else.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The point of St John's moving is to get a bigger site, not to have the exact same kind of cramped site they started with.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I've read the entire thread. You could add more buildings at Mount St Joseph, but it wouldn't create a replacement critical care hospital with all the facilities that are required, so it's irrelevant to the need to replace St Paul's.

Providence looked at trying to replace the hospital on its existing site, and couldn't find a way to do it that was more cost effective, or as good as building an entirely new facility on the much larger 18 acre site that had been acquired for them at a bargain basement price 15 years ago. Vin suggested they should build on a site that wasn't available at the time, that's just over 7 acres in size. You seem to want them to build something on the parking lots of a seven acre site that's already got a hospital on it.

Neither seems a better idea than a completely new hospital, on 11 floors, on a larger site in a more central location. The existing West End site is worth a lot more redeveloped as something else.

The need was for more facilities, not to replace The St. Paul’s itself proper. The expansion itself that is needed is a lot smaller. The reason it’s not just a straight up expansion seems to be because Providence really doesn’t need 3 large hospitals. (And there’s more space to build supporting facilities at the new site). Thus, them selling the current St. Paul’s site.

Maybe there was some major structural problem with the current St. Paul’s I’m missing, though that would justify requiring a full replacement. Which would answer my question.

Why everyone is acting like I want Mt. St. Joseph to replace St. Paul’s confuses me. It’s a supplementary expansion to a old/new St. Paul’s anywhere.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Maybe there was some major structural problem with the current St. Paul’s I’m missing, though that would justify requiring a full replacement. Which would answer my question.

Providence has been worried about the seismic integrity of the West End site; the ground may be sturdier, but the hospital itself would apparently be cheaper to rebuild to code elsewhere than to retrofit. Moving to the Flats kills several birds with one stone.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

The need was for more facilities, not to replace The St. Paul’s itself proper. The expansion itself that is needed is a lot smaller. The reason it’s not just a straight up expansion seems to be because Providence really doesn’t need 3 large hospitals. (And there’s more space to build supporting facilities at the new site). Thus, them selling the current St. Paul’s site.

Maybe there was some major structural problem with the current St. Paul’s I’m missing, though that would justify requiring a full replacement. Which would answer my question.

Why everyone is acting like I want Mt. St. Joseph to replace St. Paul’s confuses me.

No, the need is to replace the entire hospital, not just to add facilities. Almost all the buildings have seismic issues - even the more recent structures, and especially the heritage part. There was an exercise carried out to see if might be possible to replace and redevelop on the existing site, but it was rejected in favour of a larger total replacement. The complexities of trying to keep the existing hospital open and operating in less space (as each building would have to be demolished and replaced one by one) is pretty obvious. The new hospital has more beds than the existing, and will be state of the art in one hit, not after years and years of continuous construction.

[WarrenC12]

St. Paul's will be a fantastic new hospital, and building there without worrying about plugging into something old and renovating an active hospital will be much more cost effective and efficient in the long run.

Unfortunately that wasn't an option for Children's, Surrey Memorial, and now Royal Columbian. But the St. Paul's new build will be great. The question remains what will exist at the current site, if anything, in the future. Perhaps another urgent care centre.

The new St. Paul's should have actually replaced St. Paul's and MSJ, but too many politics involved I think.

[Vin]

delete

[cairnstone]

Providence Health should be a thing of the past. There is no reason for it to exist in today's world of no mixing of church and state. But the Catholics would loose there shit if it got touched. The new hospital should fall under Coastal health as it is being funded by the province mainly. Is the sale of Saint Pauls land going into the new hospital or back to the church?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Providence Health should be a thing of the past. There is no reason for it to exist in today's world of no mixing of church and state. But the Catholics would loose there shit if it got touched. The new hospital should fall under Coastal health as it is being funded by the province mainly. Is the sale of Saint Pauls land going into the new hospital or back to the church?

Providence is on the hook to provide something like $800M of the funding, so that's at least the sale of the land if not more.

Providence does sit under VCH but the arrangement is a bit goofy. It should be fully folded in, but there are covenants in place, as the church sort of gifted the hospital to the government. I don't know all of the specifics.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Changing City

No, the need is to replace the entire hospital, not just to add facilities. Almost all the buildings have seismic issues - even the more recent structures, and especially the heritage part. There was an exercise carried out to see if might be possible to replace and redevelop on the existing site, but it was rejected in favour of a larger total replacement. The complexities of trying to keep the existing hospital open and operating in less space (as each building would have to be demolished and replaced one by one) is pretty obvious. The new hospital has more beds than the existing, and will be state of the art in one hit, not after years and years of continuous construction.

Oh, ok. TBF, the Heritage part is the part most likely to be kept around as a Hospital. So you’re not going to solve any problems there at least.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

St. Paul's will be a fantastic new hospital, and building there without worrying about plugging into something old and renovating an active hospital will be much more cost effective and efficient in the long run.

Unfortunately that wasn't an option for Children's, Surrey Memorial, and now Royal Columbian. But the St. Paul's new build will be great. The question remains what will exist at the current site, if anything, in the future. Perhaps another urgent care centre.

The new St. Paul's should have actually replaced St. Paul's and MSJ, but too many politics involved I think.

Royal Columbia’s could have built on the Brewery District And land swapped with the current site (they’re comparatively sized, Brewery being smaller but you should be able to fit everything if you removed the parking lot space at Royal Columbia.

The new St. Paul’s can’t fit in a MSJ replacement without going over the viewcones or removing medical office space and rental. Phoo.

Maybe they can land-swap part of Molson for the MSJ site and a rezoning and rebuild MSJ there. Because in every option, Providence is going to end up needing both a West Side and East Side hospital.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Oh, ok. TBF, the Heritage part is the part most likely to be kept around as a Hospital. So you’re not going to solve any problems there at least.

It isn't. If the Heritage part gets preserved, it's likely to be as a façade, but that'll be up to whoever buys the site.

You questioned all this back in February, and I explained then "There's supposed to be a review of how continued health care will be delivered in Downtown and the West End, that will probably see a new day-use facility developed. It isn't necessarily going to involve Providence Health, who run St Paul's and it's very unlikely to be on the St Paul's site.

The oldest part of the hospital dates back to 1912 and is Heritage 'A' - the most important category. That doesn't mean it's secure - it isn't designated or protected - the owner has to make that decision. As one of the reasons to get out of the existing building is its seismic state, it doesn't seem likely that the building will be saved in its entirety, but it's possible to imagine the façades being retained as part of a commercial element of a future development, perhaps as a hotel? Residential conversion (as new build behind the façade) might be an alternate scenario, with totally new structures (presumably residential) replacing all the more recent hospital buildings.

The new arrangements haven't been announced yet. They have already opened a Urgent Primary Care Centre on Hornby that operates 8am to 10pm. That covers some of the needs already, (although it's in a building that's now proposed for redevelopment). Whether there will be a 24/7 emergency room hasn't been clarified, but UBC and Mount Saint Joseph are both closed at night (and MSJ doesn't have an ICU any more either), so we operate with two today, and the new St Paul's will be much better than the existing facility."