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  #261  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 12:36 AM
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Don't know if this has been posted before but thought this was a neat rapid transit map for Toronto that includes lines approved or UC.



Not bad! Glaring omission is the DRL.
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  #262  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 2:16 AM
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This is really cool!
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  #263  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 2:17 AM
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The Sheppard LRT is missing.
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  #264  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 4:25 AM
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I think GO RER lines should be in the map as well given their high frequency and EMU rolling stock.
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  #265  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 4:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
I think GO RER lines should be in the map as well given their high frequency and EMU rolling stock.
It would definitely give the impression of better transit coverage for North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke.
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  #266  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 1:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
The Sheppard LRT is missing.
Isnt that line still up in the air a bit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
I think GO RER lines should be in the map as well given their high frequency and EMU rolling stock.
I tend to agree. The map I posted seems to be TTC only.
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  #267  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 1:20 PM
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Isnt that line still up in the air a bit?
With the Sheppard LRT possibly starting construction after completion of the Finch West LRT (not even U/C yet), I guess we can say that.
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  #268  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 3:24 PM
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Still, that's a lot of LRT.

When RER comes transit will get much better in this city.

People will still complain until we get something like Tokyo I presume.
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  #269  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 3:44 PM
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Something like Tokyo would be grossly overbuilt for a city like Toronto. Torontonians seem to forget that Tokyo is many times bigger.
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  #270  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Something like Tokyo would be grossly overbuilt for a city like Toronto. Torontonians seem to forget that Tokyo is many times bigger.
Just about five times bigger... Which is hard to imagine since Toronto is massive.
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  #271  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TownGuy View Post
Not bad! Glaring omission is the DRL.

Because it doesn't exist as anything more than an idea.

The more glaring omission is the lack of SmartTrack/GO RER. Hopefully by 2023 there will be at least be little more cooperation between the TTC and other GTA transit agencies...
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  #272  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 4:38 PM
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Can anyone explain why the DRL isn't in planning while more and more lines will flow into Yonge-University in the near future? Imagine rush hour in 2023 with every single user of all four other lines using the Downtown portion to commute...

I sort of imagine it as adding more liquid to a funnel that is already overflowing.
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  #273  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Something like Tokyo would be grossly overbuilt for a city like Toronto. Torontonians seem to forget that Tokyo is many times bigger.
Well Greater Tokyo has about 150 urban and suburban rail lines, so if we have about 1/5 the population we'd have about 30 rail lines (all metro/subway, higher grade LRT and commuter rail) in total. Right now there are 3 or 4 metro lines, 7 commuter rail, and soon to be a couple more.
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  #274  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 4:58 PM
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Here's the best map I could find that included Smarttrack and. GO. Finch LRT is missing for some reason. I think the RER could make for a decent relief line

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  #275  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkahHigh View Post
Can anyone explain why the DRL isn't in planning while more and more lines will flow into Yonge-University in the near future? Imagine rush hour in 2023 with every single user of all four other lines using the Downtown portion to commute...

I sort of imagine it as adding more liquid to a funnel that is already overflowing.
Luckily a very good chunk of users aren't going down town.
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  #276  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 5:17 PM
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Really? I was under the impression that the majority of riders of the Eglinton bus routes and the future riders of the LRT were just using that corridor to get to the Yonge subway.
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  #277  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkahHigh View Post
Can anyone explain why the DRL isn't in planning while more and more lines will flow into Yonge-University in the near future? Imagine rush hour in 2023 with every single user of all four other lines using the Downtown portion to commute...

I sort of imagine it as adding more liquid to a funnel that is already overflowing.
I think the simple answer is because a DRL is considered to be a subway that will solely benefit downtowners, and downtowners are not swing voters, so there's no reason to pander to their electorate.

I heard through the grapevine that the Wynne Liberals - bullish as they are on Herculean transit expansion - are very leery about the DRL and are finding ways to kick that can down the road. I think it might have to do with the fact that a downtown subway line will be the most expensive, complicated and therefore most risky transit project in Toronto's history. The Spadina subway extension to Vaughan is much less complex in scope, and it has been plagued with delays and ballooning costs.
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  #278  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Really? I was under the impression that the majority of riders of the Eglinton bus routes and the future riders of the LRT were just using that corridor to get to the Yonge subway.
It's Toronto, there's employment sections all over the place. They might be mostly trying to get on to the Yonge line, but areas like Eglinton and Young or North York or St Clair all have plenty of office towers. I was just saying that they're not all going downtown, so it isn't purely pouring more people into an area needing the DRL.
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  #279  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I heard through the grapevine that the Wynne Liberals - bullish as they are on Herculean transit expansion - are very leery about the DRL and are finding ways to kick that can down the road. I think it might have to do with the fact that a downtown subway line will be the most expensive, complicated and therefore most risky transit project in Toronto's history. The Spadina subway extension to Vaughan is much less complex in scope, and it has been plagued with delays and ballooning costs.
This is more because of the TTC's flawed project management than anything else. Future projects are being constructed as P3s and are going to be much more efficiently executed. Look at Eglinton, the Confed Line in Ottawa, etc. All going much more smoothly and quickly thanks to P3 management.

The DRL is also way too early in the process to be funded now. It isn't even at the EA stage and won't be for some time. It won't even be tender ready until 2018-2019. Seeing as how the current funding has a cutoff of 2023 for project completion, the DRL is going to be excluded.

Politically it's also less valuable, as you said. It's also going to be needed a little less with RER drawing away a good chunk of DT-bound commuters and the ATC improvement allowing for substantial capacity increases on the Yonge line.

I can definitely see it being part of the next round of funding, though. Many of the funding sources in Wynne's infrastructure plan (such as the 7.5 cents gas tax) are permanent, so it's not like the current Move Ontario Forward plan is the end of transit spending. Plus there's tens of billions of infrastructure spending outside the scope of the plan, too. (Total infrastructure spending 2014-2023, under Wynne's plans, is going to be $135 billion, of which only $32 billion is from the famous Move Ontario Forward plan).
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  #280  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2015, 5:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TownGuy View Post
Here's the best map I could find that included Smarttrack and. GO. Finch LRT is missing for some reason. I think the RER could make for a decent relief line
That map is roughly on the right track, although the GO RER lines it draws in are more extensive than currently funded. Get rid of the Milton RER line, truncate the other ones a bit, remove the RH subway, and add in Hurontario, Finch, and Sheppard East, and that's a very realistic/likely picture of Toronto's transit system in 8-10 years.
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