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[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

The Growth of UC is inevitable supertall or not.

We have so much growth in Philly I believe A supernal will be built.

for example look at Comcact II it replaced the plan of the ACC (RIP) Which was supposed to be around 1500 feet?

Comcact II is like 1200 + or so feet?

I call that a win we still got a supertall & Comcast stole the architecture of the building and just made it simpler.

so in reality we still got the ACC and a supertall just not what we wanted to spec.

Things that are talked about frequently usually happen so we will see a supertall in UC. Hopefully in the time frame of 5-10 years.

This makes no sense.

Comcast is a Philly-based business that built a building it needed at a very specific moment in time in its growth.

That will never happen again, even for Comcast.

Even if Spark, for example, exploded in growth, and wanted to stay in West Philly, it wouldn't need a supertall.

We'll never see supertall residential like in NYC. Frankly, I'm amazed the Laurel and Arthaus got off the ground at similar times. Excited, but amazed.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but I think it's important to be realistic in our expectations. What we should be hoping for now is smart, residential development in the 300-500 foot range.

[bigfish]

While supertalls look awesome in the skyline, I am much more in favor of more shorter towers that add to the on the ground vibrancy of a city.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

This makes no sense.

Comcast is a Philly-based business that built a building it needed at a very specific moment in time in its growth.

That will never happen again, even for Comcast.

Even if Spark, for example, exploded in growth, and wanted to stay in West Philly, it wouldn't need a supertall.

We'll never see supertall residential like in NYC. Frankly, I'm amazed the Laurel and Arthaus got off the ground at similar times. Excited, but amazed.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but I think it's important to be realistic in our expectations. What we should be hoping for now is smart, residential development in the 300-500 foot range.

Thats your opinion & you have your right to it. We will have another supertall & much more development in Philly.

I dont know how you can see how booming the philly market is & make that claim when in fact NY DEVELOPERS are coming to philly to build.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Thats your opinion & you have your right to it. We will have another supertall & much more development in Philly.

I dont know how you can see how booming the philly market is & make that claim when in fact NY DEVELOPERS are coming to philly to build.

I never said we wont see development - I said we’re never going to see a supertall again in Philly, whether the developer is from PHL, NYC or Dubai.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I never said we wont see development - I said we’re never going to see a supertall again in Philly, whether the developer is from PHL, NYC or Dubai.

I gotta disagree with you. While I don’t think it will happen soon, I don’t think it’s out of the question to see another supertall in Philly in the next 10-15 years.

Keep in mind, Comcast II isn’t 100% office space. It’s a 650 ft or so tall office tower topped with a Four Seasons hotel.... that’s what brings it up to Supertall height. All that’s needed is another developer with a similar vision to build a mixed use tower with office space and hotel or apartment or condos on top. Then all we need is another tenant to fill roughly a 600-700 foot tall office building.

I don’t think this is out of the questions at all.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by bigfish

While supertalls look awesome in the skyline, I am much more in favor of more shorter towers that add to the on the ground vibrancy of a city.

I don't get the obsession with super talls.

If anything, having a 1500 or 1600 footer would make the rest of the skyline look miniature.

I'd rather have a bunch of 500-700 footers spread out with 300-500 footers in the foreground.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I never said we wont see development - I said we’re never going to see a supertall again in Philly, whether the developer is from PHL, NYC or Dubai.

Like I said thats your opinion. Its wrong & if you have that mindset I dont even know why you’re on this thread/forum.

I love people who think something is never gonna happen. Because it usually happens

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I don't get the obsession with super talls.

If anything, having a 1500 or 1600 footer would make the rest of the skyline look miniature.

I'd rather have a bunch of 500-700 footers spread out with 300-500 footers in the foreground.

The fact of the matter is the 500-700 footers are being built & will continue to. But to think we wont get another supertall in Philly is just being blind to how economics & growth occurs.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I don't get the obsession with super talls.

If anything, having a 1500 or 1600 footer would make the rest of the skyline look miniature.

I'd rather have a bunch of 500-700 footers spread out with 300-500 footers in the foreground.

Height boners. I would bet good money that someplace there's a detailed study showing the breakdown in cost as the height goes up. Just a guess, but my guess is that for the cost of a supertall you could build two 600'ers, and have a pile of money left over. And these two towers would have more than twice the rentable floor space than the one supertall. This is why Amazon keeps building 'short' buildings in Seattle instead of a couple 'tall' ones.

The market for office space is going down, not up. And there's still much available land in CC and UC to build on. There's a site half a block away from City Hall and no one has been able to come close to building a office building at that site. The Philly condo market is no where close to being able to warrant a supertall residential building. I'm pleasantly surprised that we are just starting to residential buildings above the 40 story mark.

I would doubt anyone on this forum would be against a supertall if a developer had a real proposal. (unlike what many of us would say the ACC proposal was) IMO, we just don't believe that this market would support the construction costs that go along with building tall. Plus, there doesn't seem like Philly has any ego driven developers, maybe with the exception of Carl D. who has publicly said he'd like to build the tallest residential building in PA.

To those who believe it will happen, I'd like to hear what you believe the driving force would be that would create the need for another 1000 footer? Summers seems to be saying he thing a multi use building might be the reason, but theres still the cost factor to figure out

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I gotta disagree with you. While I don’t think it will happen soon, I don’t think it’s out of the question to see another supertall in Philly in the next 10-15 years.

Keep in mind, Comcast II isn’t 100% office space. It’s a 650 ft or so tall office tower topped with a Four Seasons hotel.... that’s what brings it up to Supertall height. All that’s needed is another developer with a similar vision to build a mixed use tower with office space and hotel or apartment or condos on top. Then all we need is another tenant to fill roughly a 600-700 foot tall office building.

I don’t think this is out of the questions at all.

I've been wrong so many times on so many things, that I'd be happy to be wrong here, but I don't see any company needing a supertall ever again in Philly. And we don't have the residential demand to build thin, supertalls for billionaires.

Again, I'd love to be wrong -- but I don't see it - and I'm fine with it.

[SEFTA]

Never say never!

Originally Posted by TonyTone

The fact of the matter is the 500-700 footers are being built & will continue to. But to think we wont get another supertall in Philly is just being blind to how economics & growth occurs.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

I've been wrong so many times on so many things, that I'd be happy to be wrong here, but I don't see any company needing a supertall ever again in Philly. And we don't have the residential demand to build thin, supertalls for billionaires.

Again, I'd love to be wrong -- but I don't see it - and I'm fine with it.

So did you predict that Comcast would be building a supertall here in the first place? If you did, was it back in 2007 when they were building the first skyscraper that wasn't a supertall? Maybe 10 years earlier when they weren't the giant company that they are today? Was it back in 87 when we just broke the gentleman's agreement? Was it in 77 when it looked like no building taller than City Hall would ever be built?

Of the 4 times I mentioned above over the span of 40 years, I'd say only one had some possible optimism of an immanent supertall (87), but a supertall was eventually built. To assume that NO supertall will EVER be built in Philadelphia EVER AGAIN is insanely extreme.

Progress is ongoing, construction costs change, land value will change drastically, massive corporations grow and sometimes move, pandemics and other world events happen. If supertalls are for billionaires, over time, those will become more common too with inflation and time. The world is not stagnant.

To say there won't be one in 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years can be reasonably stated opinions, but to assume that for the rest of human civilization there won't be any reason for a tall building to be built in Philadelphia is quite crazy. In 100 years, I think it would be far less likely to see the CTC as the tallest building in Philadelphia than to see a supertall in Conshohocken.

City Hall was the tallest building in the world and has the record for longest tenure as the tallest building in the city. Since it lost that title in 87, it's fallen out of the TOP TEN. I doubt CTC will maintain it's title for nearly as long and, most certainly, won't hold it FOREVER.

[700 Level]

Let's see how Arthaus and the Laurel do. Right now, asset values are exploding and interest rates are low. Wealth is being created at a ridiculous rate. If we get a supertall in the short run, it is going to be pure residential because the wealthy will see it as a diversifying investment - and one that they can enjoy. Just my opinion - likely to prove wrong like many of the others on here. But I could see that happening.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So did you predict that Comcast would be building a supertall here in the first place? If you did, was it back in 2007 when they were building the first skyscraper that wasn't a supertall? Maybe 10 years earlier when they weren't the giant company that they are today? Was it back in 87 when we just broke the gentleman's agreement? Was it in 77 when it looked like no building taller than City Hall would ever be built?

Of the 4 times I mentioned above over the span of 40 years, I'd say only one had some possible optimism of an immanent supertall (87), but a supertall was eventually built. To assume that NO supertall will EVER be built in Philadelphia EVER AGAIN is insanely extreme.

Progress is ongoing, construction costs change, land value will change drastically, massive corporations grow and sometimes move, pandemics and other world events happen. If supertalls are for billionaires, over time, those will become more common too with inflation and time. The world is not stagnant.

To say there won't be one in 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years can be reasonably stated opinions, but to assume that for the rest of human civilization there won't be any reason for a tall building to be built in Philadelphia is quite crazy. In 100 years, I think it would be far less likely to see the CTC as the tallest building in Philadelphia than to see a supertall in Conshohocken.

City Hall was the tallest building in the world and has the record for longest tenure as the tallest building in the city. Since it lost that title in 87, it's fallen out of the TOP TEN. I doubt CTC will maintain it's title for nearly as long and, most certainly, won't hold it FOREVER.

+100 Amen

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So did you predict that Comcast would be building a supertall here in the first place? If you did, was it back in 2007 when they were building the first skyscraper that wasn't a supertall? Maybe 10 years earlier when they weren't the giant company that they are today? Was it back in 87 when we just broke the gentleman's agreement? Was it in 77 when it looked like no building taller than City Hall would ever be built?

Of the 4 times I mentioned above over the span of 40 years, I'd say only one had some possible optimism of an immanent supertall (87), but a supertall was eventually built. To assume that NO supertall will EVER be built in Philadelphia EVER AGAIN is insanely extreme.

Progress is ongoing, construction costs change, land value will change drastically, massive corporations grow and sometimes move, pandemics and other world events happen. If supertalls are for billionaires, over time, those will become more common too with inflation and time. The world is not stagnant.

To say there won't be one in 5 years, 10 years, or 20 years can be reasonably stated opinions, but to assume that for the rest of human civilization there won't be any reason for a tall building to be built in Philadelphia is quite crazy. In 100 years, I think it would be far less likely to see the CTC as the tallest building in Philadelphia than to see a supertall in Conshohocken.

City Hall was the tallest building in the world and has the record for longest tenure as the tallest building in the city. Since it lost that title in 87, it's fallen out of the TOP TEN. I doubt CTC will maintain it's title for nearly as long and, most certainly, won't hold it FOREVER.

Comcast was the only business in Philadelphia who could have built a supertall. And they did. And I'd absolutely wager $1,000 that its height will not be exceeded for the next 100 years by any new building in Philadelphia.

I don't want that to be true, mind you -- it's just based on the reality of where we are now.

If there is a breakthrough in building tech in the next 50 years and living vertically becomes the norm, sure, we could see a few Burj Dubai-level buildings here.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

Comcast was the only business in Philadelphia who could have built a supertall. And they did. And I'd absolutely wager $1,000 that its height will not be exceeded for the next 100 years by any new building in Philadelphia.

I don't want that to be true, mind you -- it's just based on the reality of where we are now.

If there is a breakthrough in building tech in the next 50 years and living vertically becomes the norm, sure, we could see a few Burj Dubai-level buildings here.

I'm glad you keep doubling down on your "gut feel" on this but it's obvious you have no analysis to add outside of how much money you would bet so no need to keep responding to people "no it won't" over and over again.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

Comcast was the only business in Philadelphia who could have built a supertall.

No, Comcast is the only company in Philadelphia who could have *occupied an entire supertall*, plus another building that is almost a supertall. Not too many private companies in the world do that. One problem is that Philadelphia does not have the appetite for speculative building that, say, NYC has. Developers here like to have at least one large tenant signed up and then hope to have other smaller tenants fill in. In NYC, often a developer will just start building without a tenant signed up, knowing that one will roll in sooner or later. (that's a little simplified, obviously...)

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

If there is a breakthrough in building tech in the next 50 years and living vertically becomes the norm, sure, we could see a few Burj Dubai-level buildings here.

It won't necessarily take a breakthrough in building technology, it will take a breakthrough in the economic structure of the city.

[iheartphilly]

^
If you can get a corporation with corporate functions in different divisions with a workforce of 4 to 5 thousand employees all together, a supertall can conceivable fill up very easily not accounting for additional space for amenities.
That being said, if Comcast 2 did not have a hotel above it, it would not reach the height of a supertall. Further, Comcast 2 has telemundo/tv studios as well to help add to its height.
Now, if we want to get a supertall just with a corporation, it has to have that kind and number of corporate employee all in one building. Biopharma, pharma, tech, financial would be good candidates for supertalls because of the concentrated number of employees and function central to what a headquarters should look like. Oh, and it needs to be a very successful and established corporation that brings in billions in revenue too. Occupying a supertall comes with lot of expenses.

So we need to look ahead to see if any major industry and corporation will expand and need to have thousands of employees in one building or if a corporation is willing to plant its HQ here for whatever reasons to have a supertall built.

One way to increase Philly's chances, if a corporation is the anchor tenant and is able to occupy 70-80% of the supertall, that could be enough for a supertall to come to fruition. The balance of occupancy can be fill by other companies to get the supertall fully leased.

Time will tell if we get another one.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

Comcast was the only business in Philadelphia who could have built a supertall. And they did. And I'd absolutely wager $1,000 that its height will not be exceeded for the next 100 years by any new building in Philadelphia.

I don't want that to be true, mind you -- it's just based on the reality of where we are now.

If there is a breakthrough in building tech in the next 50 years and living vertically becomes the norm, sure, we could see a few Burj Dubai-level buildings here.

I will GLADLY take that bet. I'm not sure you understand the passage of time. Comcast was not a thing that could have been imagined 100 years ago and who knows what it will look like in another 100 years. New companies will emerge by the year 2121 that cannot be imagined today and will require space.

Building super tall skinnies in NYC is a new building technology. As it is refined, maybe we will get some here in the future. More technologies will come as well. Also, we're "just" talking super tall, Burj Dubai is a whole other level. I wouldn't expect something like that in the next 100, but I don't think it's impossible.

You remind me of that quote from around 1900 stating "everything that can be invented has been invented." Time and progress move a lot faster than you're giving it credit.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I will GLADLY take that bet. I'm not sure you understand the passage of time. Comcast was not a thing that could have been imagined 100 years ago and who knows what it will look like in another 100 years. New companies will emerge by the year 2121 that cannot be imagined today and will require space.

Building super tall skinnies in NYC is a new building technology. As it is refined, maybe we will get some here in the future. More technologies will come as well. Also, we're "just" talking super tall, Burj Dubai is a whole other level. I wouldn't expect something like that in the next 100, but I don't think it's impossible.

You remind me of that quote from around 1900 stating "everything that can be invented has been invented." Time and progress move a lot faster than you're giving it credit.

I'll gladly eat my hat if some foolish company announces a supertall (1000+ ft) for Philadelphia in the next 50 years. Anything after that and you'll need to exhume me and dance on my coffin (I'm giving you permission).