Historic census data

[Capsicum]

I wonder to what extent, Scandinavian-descent Americans and direct immigrants from Scandinavia socialized or lived together when both lived in Canada.

Even in today's ethnic communities there's often a disconnect between new immigrants and immigrants who arrived decades ago. It's often been said that "assimilated" ethnic groups often go out of their way to distance themselves from newcomers from the same ethnicity, because they don't want to be seen as one of them or be lumped together with them.

[Docere]

I don't know. I assume they clustered in the same places but I don't think ever had the concentrations of the German-Russians and Ukrainians.

I get the sense that BC got more direct immigration from Scandinavia in the early 20th century, while Alberta and Saskatchewan was mostly via the US (even many of the Norwegian-born may have lived in the US first).

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

I don't know. I assume they clustered in the same places but I don't think ever had the concentrations of the German-Russians and Ukrainians.

I get the sense that BC got more direct immigration from Scandinavia in the early 20th century, while Alberta and Saskatchewan was mostly via the US (even many of the Norwegian-born may have lived in the US first).

The Pacific Northwest (Washington, Oregon, etc.) in the US also got later direct immigration from the Nordic countries too, maybe just a bit later than that of immigration to the Midwest/Plains since the Midwest/Plains seemed to have more mid 19th to late 19th century, while the Pacific Northwest had more late 19th to early 20th century. Maybe BC was latest of them all, with mostly early 20th century.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

There's no good way to track "assimilated" English-speaking Canadians and Anglo-Americans crossing one another's borders past birthplace, unlike with say French Canadians, it seems like.

Unless there's data on parents and grandparents' birthplaces.

U.S. census always had parents’ birthplace, so if you look at returns
for a place like Michigan you’ll see a lot of “Canada” on each sheet. Canada asked that question only in 1891, I believe it was, which makes that census quite valuable.

[Docere]

Ontario, 1931:

British Isles 2,530,993 73.8%
French 290,732 8.5%
German* 183,077 5.3%
Jewish 63,383 1.8%
Italian 60,536 1.8%
Dutch* 59,777 1.7%
Polish* 39,686 1.2%
Ukrainian* 31,978 0.9%
First Nations 30,368 0.9%
Finnish 27,137 0.8%

* adjusted using MT/ethnicity cross-classifications.

[Docere]

Here are the most "eastern" and "western" ethnic groups in 1931.

East:

Black 88%
Syrian 86.1%
French 84.6%
Italian 81.2%
Jewish 80.3%
Greek 76.9%

West:

Japanese 98.6%
Scandinavian 86.6%
Ukrainian 83.8%
Chinese 77.9%

[Docere]

I'm going to try to compile some 19th century census data this week.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Docere

I'm going to try to compile some 19th century census data this week.

I own the full report of the 1851-52 Province of Canada census (2 volumes) ... it's probably online somewhere. There is some interesting information there, broken down to the county level.

[Docere]

They don't call it British Columbia for nothing.

British-born, 1931:

PEI 607 0.7%
Nova Scotia 13,487 2.6%
New Brunswick 10,151 2.5%
Quebec 91,891 3.2%
Ontario 459,752 13.4%
Manitoba 93,649 13.4%
Saskatchewan 91,132 9.9%
Alberta 96,569 13.2%
BC 167,919 24.2%

[1overcosc]

IIRC the name "British Columbia" stems from the fact that the entire Pacific Northwest was originally referred to as "Columbia" by Europeans after the Columbia River, and after the area was partitioned at the 49th parallel, the northern part became "British" Columbia as opposed to "American" Columbia, which later formed Washington and Oregon.

[GernB]

And the statehood delegation from what is now Washington originally proposed that the state be named "Columbia", but Congress said no, that's too easily confused with the District of Columbia....so they settled on "Washington" instead. No chance of being confused with anything there.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

IIRC the name "British Columbia" stems from the fact that the entire Pacific Northwest was originally referred to as "Columbia" by Europeans after the Columbia River, and after the area was partitioned at the 49th parallel, the northern part became "British" Columbia as opposed to "American" Columbia, which later formed Washington and Oregon.

Originally Posted by GernB

And the statehood delegation from what is now Washington originally proposed that the state be named "Columbia", but Congress said no, that's too easily confused with the District of Columbia....so they settled on "Washington" instead. No chance of being confused with anything there.

Lots of things in the US, even the New World more broadly are named after Columbus. Eg. Columbia University, Columbus, Ohio, and of course the South American country Colombia (though spelled with an "o").

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Lots of things in the US, even the New World more broadly are named after Columbus. Eg. Columbia University, Columbus, Ohio, and of course the South American country Colombia (though spelled with an "o").

I believe he's referring to the fact that you have Washington DC (District of Columbia)... Columbia was turned down so it didn't get confused with another place, but Washington wasn't, aka, the other part of "Washington, District of Columbia"

[Docere]

Born in Continental Europe, 1931:

PEI 179 0.2%
Nova Scotia 6,561 1.3%
New Brunswick 2,468 0.6%
Quebec 86,337 3%
Ontario 195,099 5.7%
Manitoba 110,458 15.8%
Saskatchewan 140,389 15.2%
Alberta 113,636 15.5%
BC 58,809 8.5%

[Docere]

And for selected cities:

Born in Continental Europe, 1931:

Montreal 66,316 8.1%
Toronto 54,551 8.6%
Winnipeg 39,757 18.2%
Vancouver 14,857 6%
Hamilton 12,985 8.3%
Edmonton 8,931 11.3%
Calgary 7,225 8.6%
Regina 6,838 12.9%
Windsor 6,467 10.2%

[Docere]

Just had a look at some US cities in the 1930 census. Toronto and Montreal had a similar proportion of continental European immigrants as Baltimore and St. Louis (8% in each).

Winnipeg of course is the most impressive by far in terms of percentage of the population, even if it ranked third in numbers behind Montreal and Toronto.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

Just had a look at some US cities in the 1930 census. Toronto and Montreal had a similar proportion of continental European immigrants as Baltimore and St. Louis (8% in each).

The percent continental European born in 1930 for both Toronto and Montreal is still lower than the percent today (it's like 9-10 % in the last census, as someone brought up in my European-influenced city poll thread in "city discussions").

What's notable about Toronto and Montreal to me is that European immigration remained high from the early-mid 20th century to the late 20th and even close to today. Other cities had high numbers but did not persist for a really long time the way these two did.

Western Canadian cities (as well as Midwestern US and many Eastern US cities, even the European-immigration heavyweights like NYC and Chicago) had a much higher peak in the early 20th century and then decline.

I don't think you can find many, if any, US cities or even other Canadian cities whose European born % is higher now (or even higher in the late 20th century) than it was in the early 20th century.

[Capsicum]

I suppose the 1924 immigration act in the US made it so that the percent continental European born would not be high for very long in the mid 20th century, but then, by the time the quotas were lifted in the 50s and 60s, European immigration would not match the early 20th century wave again.

In Canada, the European immigration just kept on being high for quite a long time. But Western Canada stopped being appealing to European immigrants much sooner than the two big cities.

[Docere]

Some of the "new" ethnic groups in some smaller Ontario cities, 1931.

Sault Ste. Marie

Italian 3,264 14.1%
Finnish 1,110 4.8%

Timmins

Italian 874 6.2%
Finnish 569 4%

North Bay

Italian 740 4.8%

Oshawa

Ukrainian 902 3.8%
Polish 727 3.1%

Sudbury

Finnish 1,374 7.4%
Ukrainian 761 4.1%
Italian 627 3.4%

Copper Cliff

Italian 682 21.5%
Finnish 491 15.5%

Fort William

Ukrainian 3,322 12.6%
Italian 1,642 6.2%
Czech and Slovak 1,444 5.5%
Polish 1,100 4.7%
Finnish 995 3.8%

Port Arthur

Finnish 3,252 16.4%
Ukrainian 1,062 5.4%
Scandinavian 1,009 5.1%
Italian 923 4.7%

Niagara Falls

Italian 1,646 8.6%

Welland

Hungarian 1,141 10.7%
Italian 894 8.3%

Guelph

Italian 1,049 5%

[Capsicum]

Much of Ontario is and was quite diverse in European continental origin, not just English and French.

It's notable how many Italians immigrated to "small town Ontario". Their Italian-Americans counterparts south of the border would still have been mostly residents of big cities, from the "Ellis Island" wave of immigrants.

I don't think the US had any major counterpart of the small, relatively remote from a large city, mining town oriented Italian immigrants the way Northern Ontario did. I wonder how many of these folks had relatives who also immigrated to the big cities.