HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #141  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2012, 1:26 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
China isn't operating any trains at 480 kph, they're operating them at 300 kph, which is only 186 mph, per that latest news "link". Amtrak's Acela was recently tested at speeds over 160 mph in NJ, but to date Amtrak operates them at a maximum of 135 mph in NJ.

Tested and operating speeds are usually different everywhere in the world, including China.
480kph, where did I mention that? Please read posts carefully.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #142  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2012, 3:10 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
480kph, where did I mention that? Please read posts carefully.
That was a typo you can blame on me, I meant to write 380 kph.
Still much faster than the 300 kph they will be operating the trains at.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #143  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2012, 4:39 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
That was a typo you can blame on me, I meant to write 380 kph.
Still much faster than the 300 kph they will be operating the trains at.
Are you sure they are restricted to 300kph in China? In France they have trains that go 200mph.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #144  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2012, 5:09 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
Are you sure they are restricted to 300kph in China? In France they have trains that go 200mph.
I am as sure as Reuters!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8BL05L20121222
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #145  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2012, 3:11 AM
Wizened Variations's Avatar
Wizened Variations Wizened Variations is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,611
During the first 45 or 50 years that India was a nation, there was very little money available for infrastructure and a vast number of local, state, and, federal bureaucrats.

I remember reading and seeing video somewhere in the dust bin of my past, where India was a place where things got stamped. Literally. If one wanted to get anything done, one had to go to many places and get different pieces of paper 'stamped.' The aim, of course, was to keep the maximum number of people employeed at the lowest cost.

The ratio of the price of a tonne of rebar to a month's salary for an engineer was very high.

This is rapidly changing in India, now.

However, regrettably, the opposite appears to be happening in the US.

China has the money, and, due to extremely hard work, and a Confucian government under a thin layer of red paint, they have both money and fairly cheap labor.

Congradulations! An amazing accomplishment.
__________________
Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf

Last edited by Wizened Variations; Dec 28, 2012 at 3:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #146  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2012, 1:41 PM
The Chemist's Avatar
The Chemist The Chemist is offline
恭喜发财!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 中国上海/Shanghai
Posts: 8,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
That was a typo you can blame on me, I meant to write 380 kph.
Still much faster than the 300 kph they will be operating the trains at.
I believe the plan is to start with operations at 300km/h and then in a couple years time raise that speed to >350km/h. The lines are designed for 380km/h operation - it's for political reasons, not technical reasons, that they are being limited to 300km/h at the present time.
__________________
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature." - Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #147  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2012, 8:49 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 3,523
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
I believe the plan is to start with operations at 300km/h and then in a couple years time raise that speed to >350km/h. The lines are designed for 380km/h operation - it's for political reasons, not technical reasons, that they are being limited to 300km/h at the present time.
I wouldn't call the reasons political or technical, instead their main reason is economical - what the market limits the fares they can charge - and therefore sets a limit upon expenses - including energy.

Maybe a decade or two into the future they will be able to charge higher fares and release the full speed of these trains. As of now, they over built the railroad, but that doesn't mean they will be over built in the future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #148  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2012, 10:22 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
I wouldn't call the reasons political or technical, instead their main reason is economical - what the market limits the fares they can charge - and therefore sets a limit upon expenses - including energy.

Maybe a decade or two into the future they will be able to charge higher fares and release the full speed of these trains. As of now, they over built the railroad, but that doesn't mean they will be over built in the future.
This guy is in China, wouldn't he know what is going on there on the ground better than you sitting in Texas?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #149  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2012, 1:17 PM
The Chemist's Avatar
The Chemist The Chemist is offline
恭喜发财!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 中国上海/Shanghai
Posts: 8,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
I wouldn't call the reasons political or technical, instead their main reason is economical - what the market limits the fares they can charge - and therefore sets a limit upon expenses - including energy.

Maybe a decade or two into the future they will be able to charge higher fares and release the full speed of these trains. As of now, they over built the railroad, but that doesn't mean they will be over built in the future.
Considering that they originally started running the Shanghai-Nanjing, Shanghai-Hangzhou, and Beijing-Tianjin lines at 330-350km/h and only slowed them to 300km/h after the Wenzhou accident, I'd say that it was political reasons that caused them to do it.
__________________
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature." - Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #150  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 3:01 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 52,200
Speedy Trains Transform China

Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/bu...for-china.html

Quote:
.....

Just five years after China’s high-speed rail system opened, it is carrying nearly twice as many passengers each month as the country’s domestic airline industry. With traffic growing 28 percent a year for the last several years, China’s high-speed rail network will handle more passengers by early next year than the 54 million people a month who board domestic flights in the United States.

- Business executives like Zhen Qinan, a founder of the stock market in coastal Shenzhen, ride bullet trains to meetings all over China to avoid airport delays. The trains hurtle along at 186 miles an hour and are smooth, well-lighted, comfortable and almost invariably punctual, if not early. “I did not think it would change so quickly. High-speed trains seemed like a strange thing, but now it’s just part of our lives,” Mr. Zhen said.

- The high-speed rail lines have, without a doubt, transformed China, often in unexpected ways. For example, Chinese workers are now more productive. A paper for the World Bank by three consultants this year found that Chinese cities connected to the high-speed rail network, as more than 100 are already, are likely to experience broad growth in worker productivity. The productivity gains occur when companies find themselves within a couple of hours’ train ride of tens of millions of potential customers, employees and rivals.

- Companies are opening research and development centers in more glamorous cities like Beijing and Shenzhen with abundant supplies of young, highly educated workers, and having them take frequent day trips to factories in cities with lower wages and land costs, like Tianjin and Changsha. Businesses are also customizing their products more through frequent meetings with clients in other cities, part of a broader move up the ladder toward higher value-added products.

- China’s success may not be easily reproduced in the West, and not just because few places can match China’s pace of urbanization. China has four times the population of the United States, and the great bulk of its people live in the eastern third of the country, an area similar in size to the United States east of the Mississippi. “Except for Boston to Washington, D.C., we don’t have the corridors” of high population density that China has, said C. William Ibbs, a professor of civil engineering at the University of California, Berkeley.

- China’s high-speed rail program has been married to the world’s most ambitious subway construction program, as more than half the world’s large tunneling machines chisel away underneath big Chinese cities. That has meant easy access to high-speed rail stations for huge numbers of people — although the subway line to Changsha’s high-speed train station has been delayed after a deadly tunnel accident, a possible side effect of China’s haste.

- New subway lines, rail lines and urban districts are part of China’s heavy dependence on investment-led growth. Despite repeated calls by Chinese leaders for a shift to more consumer-led growth, it shows little sign of changing. China’s new prime minister, Li Keqiang, publicly endorsed further expansion of the 5,900-mile high-speed rail network this summer. He said the country would invest $100 billion a year in its train system for years to come, mainly on high-speed rail.

- Another impact: air travel. Train ridership has soared partly because China has set fares on high-speed rail lines at a little less than half of comparable airfares and then refrained from raising them. On routes that are four or five years old, prices have stayed the same as blue-collar wages have more than doubled. That has resulted in many workers, as well as business executives, switching to high-speed trains. Airlines have largely halted service on routes of less than 300 miles when high-speed rail links open. They have reduced service on routes of 300 to 470 miles.

.....



__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #151  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2013, 5:17 PM
Fabb's Avatar
Fabb Fabb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 9,019
Quote:
Beautiful architecture... looks like a modern airport terminal.

I used the train from Guangzhou to Shenzhen recently.
The train station at the arrival as nothing like that, more like a big metro station.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #152  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 4:34 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 52,200
China’s high-speed rail is so popular, it’s hurting the domestic airline industry

Read More: http://qz.com/193556/chinas-high-spe...line-industry/

Quote:
China Southern Airlines is the latest Chinese airline to post miserable year-end 2013 results. Net profit dropped 24% to 1.99 billion yuan ($321 million), and operating profit fell 70%. China Southern Airlines joins Air China, where net profit dropped 32% in 2013, and China Eastern Airlines, where it fell by 25%.

High oil prices, as well as increased competition from low-cost carriers and each other, have taken a toll. But, as each airline has recently acknowledged, so has China’s massive and growing high-speed rail system. --- As Quartz reported last August, the costly and sometimes under-used rail network was shaping up to be a vital part of China’s growth strategy. It doesn’t have the hurdles of the airline industry: Airlines in China struggle to get clearances from the military to expand flight paths, and China’s major airports have earned the title of the most-delayed in the world, where passengers sometimes riot to protest long waits and miserable customer service.

The high-speed rail system, on the other hand, has quickly grown to over 6,000 miles (9,700 km) in five years, and will expand to 19,000 kilometers (11,800 miles) by 2015. It is already transporting some 2 million passengers a day on trains that are rarely delayed, and which go nearly 200 miles an hour, twice as many passengers as domestic airlines.

If there were no rail network, these passengers wouldn’t all necessarily have taken flights instead, of course. Some might not have traveled at all, or gone by car, bus or slow train. Still, to see how this has hit the airlines, take a look at China Southern’s domestic passenger activity, which peaked in 2011, and on most months hasn’t hit the same highs since, according to the Center for Asia Pacific Aviation.

.....



__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #153  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2014, 1:04 PM
Fabb's Avatar
Fabb Fabb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 9,019
Quote:
The high-speed rail system, on the other hand, has quickly grown to over 6,000 miles (9,700 km) in five years, and will expand to 19,000 kilometers (11,800 miles) by 2015.
I can't believe it.
How can they double the size of the network in just 20 months ?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #154  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2014, 5:40 PM
redblock redblock is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 62
Here is an article from Foreign Policy magazine about the Chinese High Speed Rail expansion. It is available in its entirety through The Daily Beast weekly 'Long Reads' feature. Go to:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...il-5-2014.html

Click on the High-Speed Empire link.

Last edited by redblock; Apr 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #155  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2014, 8:36 PM
Fabb's Avatar
Fabb Fabb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Paris
Posts: 9,019
Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

Quote:
The state-owned group building roughly half of the rail encountered the very same problem in the fall of 2013, when it ran out of cash. In January, the company’s president “accidentally” fell to his death from the window of his Shanghai apartment. (...)


All this is to say that those who consider China’s empire of rail a model of infrastructure development ought to take a more critical look -- and that countries gazing with understandable envy at the sleek marvels crisscrossing the Middle Kingdom should measure twice before they cut their first piece of rail.
I guess that China tried to outdo Japan, but at what cost !
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #156  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 5:10 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,987
How about high-speed rail expansion to Hong Kong? Will they consider it?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #157  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 10:01 PM
JDRCRASH JDRCRASH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Gabriel Valley
Posts: 8,087
^ Would probably be super-expensive.
__________________
Revelation 21:4
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #158  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 11:27 PM
The Chemist's Avatar
The Chemist The Chemist is offline
恭喜发财!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 中国上海/Shanghai
Posts: 8,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
I can't believe it.
How can they double the size of the network in just 20 months ?
Many projects still U/C, that's how. The line to Urumqi, for example, will add a huge amount of new track when it opens by the end of the year. And there are many more projects on the go now too.

Quote:
How about high-speed rail expansion to Hong Kong? Will they consider it?
Already under construction. Set to open next year.
__________________
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature." - Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #159  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2014, 4:44 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Already under construction. Set to open next year.
Do you have construction photos? I would like to see it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #160  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2014, 10:24 AM
The Chemist's Avatar
The Chemist The Chemist is offline
恭喜发财!
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 中国上海/Shanghai
Posts: 8,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
Do you have construction photos? I would like to see it.
I don't have any photos as I don't live in that part of China, but here's a couple of Wikipedia articles on the project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzh...ress_Rail_Link (for the whole of the 142km high speed rail line from Guangzhou to Hong Kong)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Kowloon_Terminus (for the Hong Kong terminus of the line)
__________________
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature." - Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:24 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.