Development Rumours

[Canopus]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The renderings leave me with mixed feelings about the design.

I agree actually. I find it too.....historic-y and the facades, while they have a decent form have annoying detailing.

Still, it appears to be a quality building so far and there is supposed to be a thai restaurant (who knows of course) at street level so I'm hoping spinoff happens with the surrounding crap.

[Canopus]

By the way, there is a site across from Sullivan's Pond on Octerloney that is now an old run down garage I've been wondering about. It would appear that the site, although small, might be a good opportunity for a smaller developer. It is still within the core area and could basically be anything.

Does anyone know if there are problems with it, i.e. environmental?

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by Canopus

By the way, there is a site across from Sullivan's Pond on Octerloney that is now an old run down garage I've been wondering about. It would appear that the site, although small, might be a good opportunity for a smaller developer. It is still within the core area and could basically be anything.

Does anyone know if there are problems with it, i.e. environmental?

Are you referring to the one at the foot of Maple Avenue? I thought at first of the Esso across the street, which of course is still in use. Obviously any site that had underground tanks would need extensive remediation work prior to redevelopment. The old (Texaco?) station on Robie next to CTV is currently undergoing remediation..hopefully something interesting will sprout up there.

IMO both these sites would be great for development..Especially the Esso site. It would be perfect for a flatiron style development with that little triangular intersection. I had so much hope for that whole plot of land bounded by Ochterloney, Prince Albert, and Pine streets a few years ago...

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=...09613&t=h&z=16

...when they tore down Beazley lanes, and the Starr factory and put out RFPs for the area. I envisioned an area development similar to Bishop's landing in style..an homage to the Starr Manufacturing history..and build 4-5 story loft style spaces, like in the factory district of Manchester England. I would have taken the opportunity to dig up the underground portion of the canal and run it through the center if the property..(from the corner of Ochterloney/Prince Albert, through to Pine street). Contain it within a boardwalk and loft residences on either side..with ground floor retail.
Add to this the Greenvale loft project and a nice flatiron style building where Esso is.. The possibilities were endless. Instead we wound up with a Highfield Park style barn..sitting in the middle with absolutely zero context! Shameful.

[Canopus]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

Are you referring to the one at the foot of Maple Avenue?

Yep. The Esso property would have been great agreed but it's too late now for another 20+ years.

The possibilities were endless. Instead we wound up with a Highfield Park style barn..sitting in the middle with absolutely zero context! Shameful

Agreed. A really poor development choice for the potential. I can't help but wonder why exactly though

[someone123]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

The old (Texaco?) station on Robie next to CTV is currently undergoing remediation..hopefully something interesting will sprout up there.

Interesting. There's also a site on Quinpool that's been sitting vacant presumably because it needs remediation and there's an old abandoned gas station at the end of Windsor Street if I remember correctly.

Development so far on the Starr site has been a disaster. I don't think it's finished but what was built so far is hideous and the rest is proceeding at a snail's pace.

[Spitfire75]

They're also tearing down an old gas station on Dutch Village, here:
Link

[worldlyhaligonian]

from angelamaphone on flickr:

[Spitfire75]

Nice pics from the bayer's apts, but maybe they should go in the found pics thread?

I noticed they tore down the Empire Theaters near Sobeys in Bedford. What are they replacing it with?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

I had so much hope for that whole plot of land bounded by Ochterloney, Prince Albert, and Pine streets a few years ago...

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=...09613&t=h&z=16

...when they tore down Beazley lanes, and the Starr factory and put out RFPs for the area. I envisioned an area development similar to Bishop's landing in style..an homage to the Starr Manufacturing history..and build 4-5 story loft style spaces, like in the factory district of Manchester England. I would have taken the opportunity to dig up the underground portion of the canal and run it through the center if the property..(from the corner of Ochterloney/Prince Albert, through to Pine street). Contain it within a boardwalk and loft residences on either side..with ground floor retail.
Add to this the Greenvale loft project and a nice flatiron style building where Esso is.. The possibilities were endless. Instead we wound up with a Highfield Park style barn..sitting in the middle with absolutely zero context! Shameful.

It truly is horrible and to make matters worse they missed an opportunity to fix the street network there. When you are going down Maple you can see directly across from you the street that leads to 5 Corners and it seems natural that there would have been a connection built to remove having to turn left, go around the Esso station, and then turn left again. But noooooo....

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Spitfire75

Nice pics from the bayer's apts, but maybe they should go in the found pics thread?

I noticed they tore down the Empire Theaters near Sobeys in Bedford. What are they replacing it with?

A large Lawtons professional building (Lawtons on bottom floor, doctors offices on upper floor) is going up there. See the Bedford photo thread for a couple of pictures. I'll try to keep them updated.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It truly is horrible and to make matters worse they missed an opportunity to fix the street network there. When you are going down Maple you can see directly across from you the street that leads to 5 Corners and it seems natural that there would have been a connection built to remove having to turn left, go around the Esso station, and then turn left again. But noooooo....

Agreed, it would have been nice to have bridged the gap between Maple and Pleasant Streets.
That whole plot of land is just... sad. Even when you look at Google's satellite image, which I admit is out of date, the whole area just looks like a mess, only slightly better than when the Starr plant was still standing.

[Dmajackson]

I was out in Bayers Lake today, unfortunately without a camera, and i saw two new buildings. The heavily advertised Rona's and right in front of it the Bayers Park Place? Centre? Plaza? one those three i think. I kind of wish they would put nice looking places like that one on the peninsula instead of the middle of nowheres. But anyways does anyone know what is going into the building?

[Keith P.]

I was just speaking with someone in the development community about the Infirmary site and heard some disturbing news. According to this person, HRM has told him that the corner of Spring Garden and Queen is definitely going to be the new library, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The only retail might be some small c-store or coffee shop/bookstore place, but nothing major. A shame, because that corner is prime retail space.

Even more distrubing, though, is the picture that he painted about the rest of the site. Apparently he was told by someone inside the decision process that the 2 parking lots on Clyde St and the Infirmary site will all be bundled together into one big request for proposals in the fall after HRM by Design is approved at council. They are apparently talking about a major project that, aside from the library on Queen, would take the Clyde St lots and include putting in several levels of underground parking, burying power lines, etc, with commercial space at street level and residential above as per HbD principles.

I have a bunch of problems with this. First, the size of the thing means it will take forever to get going -- assuming there is any developer out there willing to take on something this big. I can't see anything actually being built for 3-4 years minimum, and god knows how long to the complete finish. Why do it that way? Why not go with several different proposal calls for each parcel and see what comes forward? This sounds almost like Scotia Square all over again. Second, HRM is going to be picking the winner and I somehow cannot see anything exciting in terms of design being favored. I *can* see the usual short and stubby faux-Victorian, faux-stone and brick, mock heritage design being favored. Cripes.

Suddenly I am depressed...

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I was just speaking with someone in the development community about the Infirmary site and heard some disturbing news. According to this person, HRM has told him that the corner of Spring Garden and Queen is definitely going to be the new library, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The only retail might be some small c-store or coffee shop/bookstore place, but nothing major. A shame, because that corner is prime retail space.

Even more distrubing, though, is the picture that he painted about the rest of the site. Apparently he was told by someone inside the decision process that the 2 parking lots on Clyde St and the Infirmary site will all be bundled together into one big request for proposals in the fall after HRM by Design is approved at council. They are apparently talking about a major project that, aside from the library on Queen, would take the Clyde St lots and include putting in several levels of underground parking, burying power lines, etc, with commercial space at street level and residential above as per HbD principles.

I have a bunch of problems with this. First, the size of the thing means it will take forever to get going -- assuming there is any developer out there willing to take on something this big. I can't see anything actually being built for 3-4 years minimum, and god knows how long to the complete finish. Why do it that way? Why not go with several different proposal calls for each parcel and see what comes forward? This sounds almost like Scotia Square all over again. Second, HRM is going to be picking the winner and I somehow cannot see anything exciting in terms of design being favored. I *can* see the usual short and stubby faux-Victorian, faux-stone and brick, mock heritage design being favored. Cripes.

Suddenly I am depressed...

I agree with you that it would be a mistake to deal with the remaining portions of the land in one set. Why not break it up? It would probably end up being more innovative. That said it could be worse, they could be trying to put parkland there!

I disagree with you about the library though. If done right, the library could really add to Spring Garden. Part of Spring Garden's success is that it attracts a mix of people doing a mix of things. A new main library that has programs/activities and collections that aren't available elsewhere could be a draw to the street in a way that the current library just can't be. Assuming that corner must be retail and that a new library is a poor use for that land is a real narrow way of looking at it.

The real worry I have about a new library is about what happens to the old one? It won't do Spring Garden any good to have that building empty or underused, but it'll be impossible to get rid of it since its a memorial. In some ways it might be better if the city looked at a major refurbishment and addition (perhaps onto the corner where Churchill is) that could expand and modernize the facility and still retain a large part of the old building. I like the idea of a brand new building, but I just worry that we'll be replacing one dead spot on Spring Garden with another.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I disagree with you about the library though. If done right, the library could really add to Spring Garden. Part of Spring Garden's success is that it attracts a mix of people doing a mix of things. A new main library that has programs/activities and collections that aren't available elsewhere could be a draw to the street in a way that the current library just can't be. Assuming that corner must be retail and that a new library is a poor use for that land is a real narrow way of looking at it.

It's not that... that is a big piece of property, and could easily accommodate both a library complex and significant retail. There is no reason why the library space could not be above a street level entrance lobby area, with retail at street level using most of the space. I would argue that the narrow-mindedness here is that of HRM and their librarian.

The real worry I have about a new library is about what happens to the old one? It won't do Spring Garden any good to have that building empty or underused, but it'll be impossible to get rid of it since its a memorial. In some ways it might be better if the city looked at a major refurbishment and addition (perhaps onto the corner where Churchill is) that could expand and modernize the facility and still retain a large part of the old building. I like the idea of a brand new building, but I just worry that we'll be replacing one dead spot on Spring Garden with another.

Yes, I agree. We have already discussed how the existing site has significant limitations for a retail space since it cannot likely be easily changed from it's present configuration. I could see an Indigo store there, but I can also see the cries of outrage from existing retailers like Frog Hollow and Bookmark should that be proposed, with the inevitable result being that Indigo would be told they were not wanted here. I do wonder what the end use of that building will turn out to be. I do not see many vibrant options, but perhaps I'll be surprised.

[Takeo]

The old library could be an Apple store LOL. Just kidding... that would never happen. But it would be cool to see a big retailer downtown... maybe a Gap / Old Navy or whatever. Urban Outfitters? I don't know. Whatever it becomes, they better keep the big central hall intact.

[Jonovision]

I really really don't like the idea of HRM auctioning off all 3 parcels to the same developer. I wonder what their reasoning behind this is?

As for the library, I think it's a great site. I always hope for something with the quality of design as the Vancouver central library. It is an amazing public building, and something of that standard would do wonders for the city.

The old library I think would make a good place for one or two larger retailers, but I also believe it would be a great new city archives. The way the site is used and loved currently really suggests the building should remain in the public realm. If large retailers were to locate there they would probably have some security issues with the front of the building, thus hiring a security guard, that would tell people they couldn't sit on the front steps....and if you ask me, those steps are prime people watching seats.

[Kicker]

The real worry I have about a new library is about what happens to the old one? It won't do Spring Garden any good to have that building empty or underused, but it'll be impossible to get rid of it since its a memorial. In some ways it might be better if the city looked at a major refurbishment and addition (perhaps onto the corner where Churchill is) that could expand and modernize the facility and still retain a large part of the old building. I like the idea of a brand new building, but I just worry that we'll be replacing one dead spot on Spring Garden with another.

I hope it's not impossible to replace the old building. I come from a community that went through a similar experience. The old elementary school was replaced and debate was heated on what to do with the old site as it too was a war memorial. In the end it was torn down and replaced with a monument and the site redeveloped for another civic building. I think the old library site would look great with some sort of memorial fountain or statue and a brand new development to replace the library.

[hfx_chris]

Now I have to disagree, that building is a beautiful piece of architecture, and it would be a major shame to lose it...

[Jonovision]

I wouldn't want to see the building gone, but I like your idea of a fountain for the site.