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  #4721  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 12:56 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
IIRC the Oakland 2025 plan (which was never formally ratified as an Oakland master plan unfortunately) basically called for all of Central Oakland between Forbes and Bates to be upzoned/replaced with apartments in order to "save" the remainder of Oakland. The logic is basically that if you added thousands of new dedicated rental units it would decrease rental prices for the slumlord units enough that they'd either be forced to improve their units, or to sell to someone who would convert back to homeowner occupancy.

I think conversion back to homeowner occupancy would be a good bet for many of the chopped-up homes, save for maybe the biggest. Lots of people work in Oakland and would probably want to have a chance to own there if there were options aside from million-dollar homes in Schenley Farms or dated condo units. Many probably would be turned off by the idea of putting up with undergraduate antics, but I can't believe that the current market actually comes close to meeting demand for homes in Oakland considering virtually no homes in Oakland ever go on the market.

That said, it's hard to see a future for walkup buildings under this model. They have been converted into condos in cities like Chicago, but this might be a bit too much niche appeal for Oakland.
Yeah, I completely agree with the idea that loading up on many thousands of new student-oriented units in that area might bring some sort of real SFH market back to outer parts of Oakland, which would be great. So while I feel the distress of losing so many cool small historic apartment buildings (one of my personal favorite forms), if they are already under common control, and that is what it takes to load up on the new units in this area in the next phase of Oakland's redevelopment . . . .

By the way, Chicago is one of the cities I was thinking about with some highly desirable historic walkup areas. This is a while back, but when I went to the University of Chicago for law school, it was interesting in that some of the blocks (usually closest to the campus) were incredibly desirable, with professors and such buying the sorts of condos you mentioned. But if you got far enough way it started becoming a lot more affordable, and there would be sort of transitional zones where students would be renting before you started getting entirely out of the university's orbit.

So if there WAS a viable path from here to those walkups being professional-class condos and such, that would be great. I am just struggling to imagine that transition really working in practice.

And I do think the sheer scale of the new units this overall strategy will require, as close to the campuses as possible, makes pretty much that entire area you mentioned presumptively suitable for upscaling.
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  #4722  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2021, 2:01 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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So speaking of transportation links, the final version of the Port Authority's NEXTransit plan is now available:

https://nextransit.network/

This is a new proposed 25-year plan, and as usual these days there was a long process of public engagement. But now it is final and will start working its way through the approval process. Of course funding is a whole other issue, but this provides a sort of prioritization and framework for what might get done if and when funding is available.

There is a lot of interesting information in the document, but the high level structure is they identify 8 target areas, one of which is basically the City of Pittsburgh, and then 7 corridors radiating out from the City. And a ninth "area" is then just the concept of circulating around without going through the City--but I think it is interesting the degree to which that is really pretty downgraded at this point, as I think we are now mostly back to people understanding rapid access to the core employment/activity clusters is the most important transit need.

Indeed, the whole thing is much more about addressing unfilled transit needs we already have, rather than anticipating future needs based on greenfield development and such. Of course this is a county-level entity and you might still get a somewhat different vision when you start moving up to regional (Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission) or state/national levels. But still, I think it is notable and welcome how much we are getting back to trying to make transit in Pittsburgh work like we know it can and should work in modern, thriving cities across the globe.

Another thing they emphasize is they really need to invest heavily (as in $200M plus or minus) in some "boring" things like expanded vehicle storage and maintenance facilities before they can do anything else of significance. Fair enough. Maybe this sort of thing could get funded on a sort of stimulus logic.

OK, then they divide it up into 1-5 year "essential expansion" projects, 6-15 year "opportunity expansion", and then 16-25 year additional "opportunity expansion". Although it is a bit fuzzy of a line, they are typically pushing more speculative, further-out suburban-growth type projects to that last bucket, with projects more involving existing developed areas in the second bucket.

OK, then the 1-5 year phase involves some interesting stuff!

The very first project is +/- $200M for a "East/Central Pittsburgh River to River Connection," which would go from the Strip over the Hill through Oakland to Hazelwood, then cross the river to Carrick/Overbrook and a connection to the LRT system. And in light of the topographic challenges, they mention an aerial gondola system! But also note it would probably be multi-mode overall.

People who know me will know I am extremely pleased about this. I do think it makes sense, and I think this is the perfect first application for such a technology in our area. And I am somewhat shocked it actually made the very top of their list (well, after the facilities thing).

OK, next . . . I won't discuss all these in detail, but the other 1-5 projects are a Downtown Transit Center; doing something about the Library Line (and reading between the lines, I think they are really thinking it might need to be downgraded from light rail, because the cost of maintaining it as part of the LRT system is hard to justify given the limited ridership/TOD potential); a light BRT plan for 837 between Homestead and McKeesport; phased extensions of the East Busway, possibly to McKeesport eventually; studying the Allentown line (this one they sound more bullish on upgrading back to LRT); a BRT connection between the East Busway and Monroeville with either shoulder-running or center-running buses on the Parkway East; and light BRT along McKnight Road.

Phew! Only some of that is actual expansion, some is planning, but that is still a lot of stuff. And I am glad to see so much BRT focus for connecting in physically close developed areas that are currently very underserved with rapid transit.

OK, then 6-15 years they lead off with a revived plan for some sort of rapid transit along the AVRR right of way. But rather than commuter rail, they are more talking light rail or BRT. Interesting, and again I think a sort of shift in focus to making all this more neighborhood friendly and less about whisking commuters through this area.

Also on the 6-15 list: BRT expansion from the West Busway to the airport; light BRT on Brownsville/51; and studying LRT extensions along the Ohio River and/or out to Ross.

I note those last couple projects would be ENORMOUSLY expensive. Never say never, but I am personally thinking most of these other things listed so far would be far better benefit-to-cost ratio projects. Indeed, in another chart they list the capital range estimate for these projects, and check off a "Top 10". These are by FAR the most expensive projects, and don't make the top 10. The most expensive project on the top 10 is the Airport corridor plan.

I also personally think if they did do a first aerial gondola system that worked out well, that might be an alternative technology to explore for at least nearer parts of the North Side/North Hills, likely at a fraction of both the capital and operating costs.

OK, out to 25 years you get rapid transit out to Cranberry, Pleasant Hills, Bridgeville, and along Freeport Road.

Everything on the list would end up costing an estimate $3-3.75 billion. But, just the Top 10 cuts that to $1.2-1.6B. And that might be a realistic funding number for the next 25 or so years, maybe even a shorter timeframe depending on relevant population and political dynamics over the next decade or so.

Last edited by BrianTH; Sep 20, 2021 at 2:12 PM.
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  #4723  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 1:23 PM
themaguffin themaguffin is offline
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There is so much going on (nationally) that I lost track of Biden's transit stuff.

Will/would that impact these plans?
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  #4724  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 5:39 PM
eschaton eschaton is online now
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Some more information from Next Pittsburgh regarding the Fifth and Dinwiddie project in Uptown (or more properly, Crawford Roberts, given it's on the north side of Fifth).

171 apartments - 20% affordable, plus new commercial and office space.
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  #4725  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 6:30 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Some more information from Next Pittsburgh regarding the Fifth and Dinwiddie project in Uptown (or more properly, Crawford Roberts, given it's on the north side of Fifth).

171 apartments - 20% affordable, plus new commercial and office space.
Idle thought, but that article used the term "Uptown" apparently in reference to the Lower Hill redevelopment site as well. And in fact, I think it would be cool to have a name/identity associated with all of the Bluff, Crawford-Roberts, and that site (whatever neighborhood it is officially in now).

And "Uptown" would make some sense if it really gets a lot of residential eventually ("uptown" often meaning a mostly residential area in a city next to the "downtown" central business district).

But I wonder if "Uptown" has too much historical association with just the Bluff (aka Soho aka Boyd's Hill aka Ayer's Hill) to be repurposed in that fashion.
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  #4726  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 6:43 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Originally Posted by themaguffin View Post
There is so much going on (nationally) that I lost track of Biden's transit stuff.

Will/would that impact these plans?
I may be garbling this, but I believe there is a large infrastructure bill that is partially funded by prior stimulus funds that has passed the Senate and is supposed to get a vote in the House on 9/27. I think the Senate version includes something like $39 billion in new funding for public transit, and I wonder if that might go up a bit when it is reconciled. Anyway, at least a good chunk of that should end up available in our region. There are also other programs not specifically for transit but that can sometimes end up going partially to transit projects, like green energy programs, mixed-use redevelopment programs, and so on.

But there are additional budget negotiations ongoing which complicate things. The Democrats passed a budget reconciliation bill which means they can now pass a new budget bill without it being filibustered, but they still need every last vote in the Senate. And I think some progressive Democrats in the House are tying together negotiations on passing the infrastructure bill and the budget bill.

So hopefully in a week or so we get some clarity. But at least so far, we are on track for a significant new allocation of funding for public transit infrastructure at the federal level.

Edit: Don't hold me to this, but I have a vague recollection the urbanized area of Pittsburgh, which more or less means the Port Authority, typically gets somewhere on the order of 1/2% (1/200th) of federal transit funding (although that could be more or less depending on how we do in competitive grant processes--the formula grants are obviously more set). That would imply if there was, say, $40B or so in new federal funding, it could mean around $200M or so in terms of new capital funding for Port Authority projects. The expectation, though, is this would be leveraged up a bit by state and local contributions. But it could also be supplemented by other sorts of programs.

Edit #2: Sorry to keep running on, but it just occurred to me I think some of the Biden Administration's new programs and policies involve not just green energy, energy efficiency, and reducing climate impact, but also things like furthering "transformative" technologies, improving equity in transportation, and so on.

Which makes me wonder if part of the reason the aerial gondola idea got top billing (after the expanded facilities plan) is it might score quite well in competitive grant processes with those sorts of priorities. I think the ordinary urbanized area formula grants and such could be used for the facilities part, so that combination of first two projects might make a lot of sense for a near-term plan to make use of the newly-available federal funds/priorities.

Last edited by BrianTH; Sep 21, 2021 at 7:10 PM.
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  #4727  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 8:04 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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So the other day I drove past the Carrie Furnace site, and it occurred to me I had not read anything about it for a long time. So, I went searching and sure enough, I had missed some news about RIDC getting a deal with the County to develop the larger portion of the site (the smaller portion west of the furnaces is being reserved):

https://nextpittsburgh.com/city-desi...o-film-studio/

https://triblive.com/local/regional/...ite-in-rankin/

Overhead view:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ri...6!4d-79.889604

The headlines are about possibly building some film studios, but generally the idea is to start some infrastructure and roadway work this fall, and then a first phase of 100,000 sqft of tech-flex in the spring. Eventually they are thinking up to 500,000 sqft.

This is not inherently the most exciting sort of development, but I mentioned a couple years ago that I think converting this site to a significant jobs center would be great for some of the surrounding historic neighborhoods. It is really getting too far from Downtown/Oakland to justify a bunch of new residential, but by adding another jobs cluster in that area, it will suddenly make a lot of other nearby communities well-located.

In fact, it would tie in nicely with some of the transportation projects discussed above. This time, they are also making sure it will have a riverside bike/pedestrian trail tied into the Great Allegheny Passage and Westmoreland Heritage Trail. Last I knew, it was supposed to tie into the GAP versus the hot metal bridge, which is kinda a no-brainer if it is structurally sound, since the GAP is right at the south end of the bridge:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ri...6!4d-79.889604

Anyway, I am glad I looked it up!
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  #4728  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 8:41 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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More news I missed--I knew the apartment/retail project in the former Kaufmann's Downtown had officially opened, but I did not realize the same developers are eyeing "The Pittsburgher" (former Lawyers Building) across the street for 130 more apartments:

https://nextpittsburgh.com/city-desi...-rooftop-pool/

And there is a mysterious "opportunity for a joint venture project on a building next to Kaufmann’s" mentioned as well.

"The Pittsburgher" was pretty recently given an attempted refresh as an office building, but the project failed (there were fires, floods, and generally poor occupancy), and the times are changing. So it makes sense to transition to residential.

It is a cool 1928 high-rise with pretty small floors, and it originally housed a hotel (the Pittsburgher Hotel). So it is fundamentally well-suited to residential.

Across the street and next to Kaufmann's is the Allegheny Building, originally a sort of annex for the Frick Building. Last I knew that had been bought by PMC, once again for a residential conversion (up to 190 units), so I wonder if finishing that off might be the "joint venture".
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  #4729  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 9:07 PM
eschaton eschaton is online now
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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
More news I missed--I knew the apartment/retail project in the former Kaufmann's Downtown had officially opened, but I did not realize the same developers are eyeing "The Pittsburgher" (former Lawyers Building) across the street for 130 more apartments:

https://nextpittsburgh.com/city-desi...-rooftop-pool/

And there is a mysterious "opportunity for a joint venture project on a building next to Kaufmann’s" mentioned as well.

"The Pittsburgher" was pretty recently given an attempted refresh as an office building, but the project failed (there were fires, floods, and generally poor occupancy), and the times are changing. So it makes sense to transition to residential.

It is a cool 1928 high-rise with pretty small floors, and it originally housed a hotel (the Pittsburgher Hotel). So it is fundamentally well-suited to residential.

Across the street and next to Kaufmann's is the Allegheny Building, originally a sort of annex for the Frick Building. Last I knew that had been bought by PMC, once again for a residential conversion (up to 190 units), so I wonder if finishing that off might be the "joint venture".
I knew something about this, mostly because my office was supposed to move into The Pittsburgher during the pandemic, and then the owners backed out on a lease at the last minute, telling us they planned to "go residential."
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  #4730  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 2:45 PM
dfiler dfiler is offline
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It looks like the Summerset at Frick Phase III development might not happen as originally planned. The partially re-forested slag area between nine-mile run and swisshelm park was supposed to become 210 homes. Now the URA has announced a community meeting for a proposed "Solar Development".

While i don't think urban green space is a good location for a solar farm, it is preferable to new homes being built there. Ideally, it would become part of Frick Park. The area is heavily used already for its hiking and biking trails. With a solar farm, perhaps the perimeter could be preserved for public recreation. There are excellent views across the Mon and nine mile run.

Note that this is being promoted as a partnership with Councilman O'Connor. He lives literally a few houses away from the area in question.

Community Meeting
Swisshelm Park – Solar Development

Tuesday, Sept. 28, 2021 | 7:00 - 8:30 PM | VIRTUAL

Web:
https://www.ura.org/events/community...w13kciWN7Xxya0

PDF flyer of the same info:
https://www.ura.org/media/W1siZiIsIj...21_digital.pdf
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  #4731  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 3:01 PM
eschaton eschaton is online now
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It looks like the Summerset at Frick Phase III development might not happen as originally planned. The partially re-forested slag area between nine-mile run and swisshelm park was supposed to become 210 homes. Now the URA has announced a community meeting for a proposed "Solar Development".

While i don't think urban green space is a good location for a solar farm, it is preferable to new homes being built there. Ideally, it would become part of Frick Park. The area is heavily used already for its hiking and biking trails. With a solar farm, perhaps the perimeter could be preserved for public recreation. There are excellent views across the Mon and nine mile run.

Note that this is being promoted as a partnership with Councilman O'Connor. He lives literally a few houses away from the area in question.

Community Meeting
Swisshelm Park – Solar Development

Tuesday, Sept. 28, 2021 | 7:00 - 8:30 PM | VIRTUAL

Web:
https://www.ura.org/events/community...w13kciWN7Xxya0

PDF flyer of the same info:
https://www.ura.org/media/W1siZiIsIj...21_digital.pdf
There's been a strong NIMBY element in Swisshelm Park opposing the next phase, which would technically be in the neighborhood. IIRC if it even gets built there will be no road connection to the neighborhood as a result.
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  #4732  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 3:24 PM
dfiler dfiler is offline
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There's been a strong NIMBY element in Swisshelm Park opposing the next phase, which would technically be in the neighborhood. IIRC if it even gets built there will be no road connection to the neighborhood as a result.
That was my understanding as well, based on info in the URA's master plan for phase 3.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oy6a1pf4f...eering+RFP.pdf

All the currently dead end roads are not wide enough for 2-way traffic. Not terribly unusual in pgh really. But all the residents there are really used to having their own isolated neighborhood with zero through traffic. That's exactly what produces NIMBYs. Or perhaps it was O'Connor's influence that kept plan from tying into neighborhood roads.

Not much more info but a few new sentences in the city's press release:
https://pittsburghpa.gov/press-relea...-releases/5295
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  #4733  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 3:29 PM
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I saw that this is happening next week... "Riverfront 47" meeting in Sharpsburg.

https://www.facebook.com/sharpsburgn...type=3&theater

Mosites, along with Live Work Learn Play out of Toronto https://lwlp.com/ and The Working Group out of NYC https://theworkinggroup.net/ are presenting updates on riverfront development plans.
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  #4734  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 3:34 PM
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For reference, these preliminary park and development designs were previously released. However, with these new developers now officially on board, it seems the project scale and scope has grown, meaning increased height and density.

http://riverfront47.com/balmori-presentation/
















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  #4735  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 3:46 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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Interesting about Summerset. It was definitely a disappointment to me in the way it was ultimately done, and so I don't mind not seeing more of the same--and particularly not with the lack of connection to the existing Swisshelm Park neighborhood in Phase III.

I haven't thought about solar there, but in many ways it makes a lot of sense. It has the right sort of exposure to maximize efficiency, and currently it is pretty much entirely cut off from anything as far as road and transit access are concerned. I also don't mind the branding opportunity for the local area.

I agree, though, that ideally this is combined with a good plan for keeping it as a recreational space too. As I recall, Frick Park officially extends down the Nile Mile Run valley and around the slope between this area and Duck Hollow. Similarly it is down in the valley along Commercial Street. up through the slopes before you get to Swisshelm Park.

So I wonder if a good chunk of this area could be officially added to Frick Park, possibly including the slope down above the railroad tracks along the Mon, and whatever else didn't need to be solely dedicated to a solar farm.

Last edited by BrianTH; Sep 22, 2021 at 5:47 PM.
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  #4736  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 6:13 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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For reference, these preliminary park and development designs were previously released. However, with these new developers now officially on board, it seems the project scale and scope has grown, meaning increased height and density.
Um, whoa.

Just to be clear, the Balmori park design is older, the Design Collective stuff is the new stuff?

I will say the Balmori design for the park was really cool and I don't think the new design for that part is as nice.

But I can see why with that whole zone rapidly growing in desirability, they would want to maximize the development part.
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  #4737  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 6:33 PM
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Um, whoa.

Just to be clear, the Balmori park design is older, the Design Collective stuff is the new stuff?

I will say the Balmori design for the park was really cool and I don't think the new design for that part is as nice.

But I can see why with that whole zone rapidly growing in desirability, they would want to maximize the development part.
No, I think the Design Collective stuff is old as well. The landowners and Mosites brought some bigger boys into the fold, I guess. Balmori elements are likely to be integrated into the new developers' plan, as far as I've heard.
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  #4738  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 7:40 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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No, I think the Design Collective stuff is old as well. The landowners and Mosites brought some bigger boys into the fold, I guess. Balmori elements are likely to be integrated into the new developers' plan, as far as I've heard.
Ah! That would be cool. There is a real opportunity to do something special there both in terms of riverfront park and significant development.
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  #4739  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 7:43 PM
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Ah! That would be cool. There is a real opportunity to do something special there both in terms of riverfront park and significant development.
Yeah, and they've been saying all of the right things behind the scenes, as far as connection, inclusion, equity, environmental sensitivity, etc. go. Hopefully, it will get underway somewhat soon.
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  #4740  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2021, 7:56 PM
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Interesting about Summerset. It was definitely a disappointment to me in the way it was ultimately done, and so I don't mind not seeing more of the same--and particularly not with the lack of connection to the existing Swisshelm Park neighborhood in Phase III.

I haven't thought about solar there, but in many ways it makes a lot of sense. It has the right sort of exposure to maximize efficiency, and currently it is pretty much entirely cut off from anything as far as road and transit access are concerned. I also don't mind the branding opportunity for the local area.

I agree, though, that ideally this is combined with a good plan for keeping it as a recreational space too. As I recall, Frick Park officially extends down the Nile Mile Run valley and around the slope between this area and Duck Hollow. Similarly it is down in the valley along Commercial Street. up through the slopes before you get to Swisshelm Park.

So I wonder if a good chunk of this area could be officially added to Frick Park, possibly including the slope down above the railroad tracks along the Mon, and whatever else didn't need to be solely dedicated to a solar farm.
The area isn't cut off from roads though. 6 roads go directly to the property. Granted, they are narrow but that is nothing unusual in Pittsburgh. Access could also be provided from commercial street. Each dead-end street could easily accommodate a small parking area and trailhead without creating a traffic situation any different than the rest of the city. There's even an opportunity to solve the narrow road problem by connecting the dead-ends together and making the roads one way.

Also, there's nothing unique about this site that makes it well-suited for solar. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point about the right sort of exposure to maximize efficiency.

Frick property includes a small strip along the nine mile stream and a wedge of land between the parkway, Windermere and commercial. It's about to be largely deforested though when the parkway bridge is replaced.

The URA intends to transfer the slope below summerset phase 1 and 2 to frick park. Though I think that was delayed while phase 3 was pending. They would have needed to put a road down, a bridge across, and a road back up to connect the development on both sides of the nine mile. Summerset even engraved "Frick Park" into the stone wall all along the sidewalk that overlooks nine mile.

Though frick park expansion into summerset is moving along. Sometime soon they should begin construction on the plan linked below. It includes one of those fancy stone pavilions and landscaping. For now, the expansion only includes the block of grass at the top of the hill, within the residential area but not down the slag slope.

Summerset Phase II Frick Park Expansion
https://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/redtai...nsion_Pres.pdf

Last edited by dfiler; Sep 22, 2021 at 8:09 PM.
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