Southwest Airlines Newest 737!

[Lexy]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Give me SNA-SEA and I will personally deliver them the head of Jim Wright!

LOL!!!

Contrary to what most people believe, Southwest operates hubs across the nation.

Those "hubs" would be:
Las Vegas
Chicago
Phoenix
Dallas
Baltimore
Orlando
Nashville


These are the cities with the most CONNECTING traffic coupled with the best O&D numbers for Southwest.

[SoCal Alan]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I just wish they had more direct service out of SNA - although I understand all too well that the newport beach assholes have put an end to that posibility for the forseeable future.

I take it you don't own a home and are living directly under or near the flight path of SNA departures?

[Policy Wonk]

As a matter of fact I live directly under the extended center-line of the runway of a major airport, close enough to read the N numbers with the naked eye. And the only planes that I so much as notice from inside the house are the 727 freighters, the odd military hercules and old clunker 1970's private jets.

SNA has been the site of an airport since 1923, find me a resident who has been there since 1923 and I will hear them out. When SNA developed into what it is today it was surrounded by orchards and cows who periodically got on the runway.

A decade from now the only way into Southern California by air will probably be parachute. Unless the NIMBY's get a serious ass-kicking.

The pending development of El Toro is nothing short of criminal given the looming airport crisis in Southern California. What are you guys going to do when LAX can't absorb any more traffic? Reflect on how nice and quite it is?

[urbanflyer]

Lexy - left one city off that list. OAK is also critical to the WN system.

[SoCal Alan]

SNA was flying commercial jets since 1923? Don't think so.

I signed up for the number of passenger flights that was flying out of SNA when I bought my home 10 years ago. Approximately 7 million passengers per year. I could live with that. It is now almost 10 million. Should I continue to accept more, lets say 12, 16, 20 million? Should we expand and handle 25 to 35 million?

I fully supported the El Toro airport project 25 to 35 million capacity. 10,000 foot runways compared to the 5700 at John Wayne. John Wayne is on 400 acres with no buffer zones. El Toro had 4000 with buffer zones. Don't quote me on the exact numbers.

So, maybe we should handle the problem by flying takeoff patterns directly over your house. Give me an f'ing break.

[Policy Wonk]

SNA got commercial jet service in 1963 and the planes flying out of SNA today are quiter today than they ever have been.

I get planes flying over my house all day - the only ones I notice are military, old cessna citations and 727's.

If the issue is noise, lets address noise. If you want to cut noise at SNA kick out the old private jet aircraft. But then I suspect the same assholes from newport beach who can't stand a 737NG that is barely noticable by the time it reaches them will probably cry communism or what not.

The loudest commercial aircraft you guys get is a handful of American MD-80's. There are few airports on earth that get as much accomodation of noise restriction as SNA does and still you complain.

and I bet you will blame the airlines a decade from now when it costs $800 to fly to San Francisco.

[urbanflyer]

Should I continue to accept more, lets say 12, 16, 20 million? Should we expand and handle 25 to 35 million?

That last sentence is alarmist straw man garbage and it has been recycled by airport NIMBYs from Dulles to O'Hare. Thing is SNA doesn't have anywhere near the potential for expansion the aforementioned facilities do.

If you want to cut noise at SNA kick out the old private jet aircraft. But then I suspect the same assholes from newport beach who can't stand a 737NG that is barely noticable by the time it reaches them will probably cry communism or what not.

Barely noticable because the airlines have agreed for years to a departure procedure that stretches the margin of safety to thin as ice levels (still don't know how the FAA approved that one). Getting rid of GA jets would be a great start except that they have nowhere to go (LGB is NIMBY land too) thanks to OC voters and stupidvisors time and again.

[Policy Wonk]

Don't you know the old socal mantra? they can go to LAX!

I don't really think they should go anywhere, I think the locals should suck it up or move to the middle of the desert. Or perhaps somewhere where the only air service is a Beech 1900D three times a week to Boise. What they should really do is build an international airport at El Toro, a once in a century oppertunity - but alas they won't.

If I had my way I would round up every airworthy DC-8 with its original engines and run a shuttle service every 15 minutes between SNA and LGB 24 hours a day.

[SoCal Alan]

So where do you live, Policy Wonk?

[urbanflyer]

Well the other way to go is complete NIMBY pacification, as has been done here in Japan. EVERY new airport can be a multibillion dollar pork project in the form of an offshore island

[SoCal Alan]

Originally Posted by urbanflyer

That last sentence is alarmist straw man garbage and it has been recycled by airport NIMBYs from Dulles to O'Hare. Thing is SNA doesn't have anywhere near the potential for expansion the aforementioned facilities do.

So, if this was a straw man argument, then you would be against any plan to utilize a second runway for commercial use, or to extend the current runway(s), or to remove or lessen the curfew hours correct?

Originally Posted by urbanflyer

Barely noticable because the airlines have agreed for years to a departure procedure that stretches the margin of safety to thin as ice levels (still don't know how the FAA approved that one). Getting rid of GA jets would be a great start except that they have nowhere to go (LGB is NIMBY land too) thanks to OC voters and stupidvisors time and again.

So, where in Newport did you live in to make the statement that the noise is "barely noticeable". I live as close to the beach, and as far away from the end of the runways as possible and I can really hear how loud the jet engine noise is. Then again, you live in Japan now so who really cares, huh?

[urbanflyer]

then you would be against any plan to utilize a second runway for commercial use, or to extend the current runway(s), or to remove or lessen the curfew hours correct?

extending the current runways is impossible. utilizing runway 19L/1R for commercial use wouldn't be feasible due to current runway separation safety standards. curfew hours have always been an acceptable compromise as much as operators despise them. so yes, I don't see any reason to oppose these existing limitations.

So, where in Newport did you live in to make the statement that the noise is "barely noticeable".

Living in Newport isn't a dependent variable for opining on this matter. I've been in Newport enough to get an idea of the noise and I've lived near the busiest GA airport in the world (Van Nuys). I have background in both land use planning and aviation so the data available regarding the noise footprints around SNA is easily digestible. You have neighbors who were around when traffic was half what it is now but 727s and 737-200s were the regular visitors to the facility. You are fortunate to hear the little noise overhead that you do now. The loudest and most frequent violators of noise procedures at SNA are still local community members who use business jets that are barely stage III compliant and have no qualms with paying the penalty fees for their convenience.

[Major AWACS]

Originally Posted by Lexy

LOL!!!

Contrary to what most people believe, Southwest operates hubs across the nation.

Those "hubs" would be:
Las Vegas
Chicago
Phoenix
Dallas
Baltimore
Orlando
Nashville


These are the cities with the most CONNECTING traffic coupled with the best O&D numbers for Southwest.

From Southwest.com
Cities -DailyDepartures -Numberof Gates -Nonstop CitiesServed -Established
Las Vegas - 225 -21 -53 -1982
Chicago Midway- 216 -29 -47 -1985
Phoenix -207 - 24 -42 -1982
Baltimore/Washington -173 -25 -38 -1993
Oakland -142 -11 -20 -1989
Houston Hobby -141 -17 -28 -1971
Dallas (Love Field) -127 -14 -14 -1971
Los Angeles (LAX) -118 -12 -19 -1982
Orlando -96 -12 -31 -1996
San Diego -92 -10 -14 -1982

edit for link-http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/factsheet.html

I see no Nashville and no numbers in any of my industry pubs to show Nashville close, do you have WN's data sheets showing the load factors? and also on your list you ommited Houston-Hobby which is much higher than DAL even with the new Wright cities as this list is from Dec 13.

I can't stand flying Southwest but then again I mainly fly international so it is not a problem. Continental's BizFirst is my favourite among US airlines. Here in Europe BA all the way though KLM is getting good again.


As urbanflyer pointed out the sep standards are not going to change at SNA


Douce bags that move near airports and then complain about noise should be flogged.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings

[SoCal Alan]

Originally Posted by urbanflyer

extending the current runways is impossible.

Ever heard of the plan to extend the runway/buffer zone over the 73? Not cost effective? Perhaps it's less expensive than building a new airport at El Toro, now.

Originally Posted by urbanflyer

utilizing runway 19L/1R for commercial use wouldn't be feasible due to current runway separation safety standards. curfew hours have always been an acceptable compromise as much as operators despise them. so yes, I don't see any reason to oppose these existing limitations.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by urbanflyer

Living in Newport isn't a dependent variable for opining on this matter. I've been in Newport enough to get an idea of the noise and I've lived near the busiest GA airport in the world (Van Nuys). I have background in both land use planning and aviation so the data available regarding the noise footprints around SNA is easily digestible. You have neighbors who were around when traffic was half what it is now but 727s and 737-200s were the regular visitors to the facility. You are fortunate to hear the little noise overhead that you do now. The loudest and most frequent violators of noise procedures at SNA are still local community members who use business jets that are barely stage III compliant and have no qualms with paying the penalty fees for their convenience.

I'm about as far away from the end of the runway as you can be and the noise is tolerable for most of the jets taking off, for me. However, there are the jets, as you mention, that make so much noise that it is not acceptable. How did the sound of those jets feel to you when you were here visiting? Maybe you didn't hear it because you haven't been here long enough to experience that.

Regardless of those non-compliant jets, can you imagine what it would be like to live a little closer to the end of the runways, in communities like Eastbluff or Eastside Costa Mesa, or Santa Ana Heights? Have you spent time in those areas? There not exactly places where tourists like you would venture to, but they are communities where familes live in and are subjected to much worst noise than I am subjected to. Would you think that the noise is "barely noticeable" there? Or do you just spend time at the beach.

Do you understand why people would at least want a limit to that amount of frequency of that noise? I really believe that the county blew it when we had the chance to build a first class airport facility at El Toro. Instead, we get... The Great Park.

[SoCal Alan]

Originally Posted by Capt AWACS

Douce bags that move near airports and then complain about noise should be flogged.

Although I dislike John Kerry, maybe he was right.

[Major AWACS]

Oh kid I don't know you must be mad cause you didn't get laid on new years. Sorry kid.

Did you think my comment was directed at you? Well you must be a self proclaimed douche bag then are you the nimby type to move to an airport then bitch about planes? Sad.

I don't really like American's Maybe Osama was right

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Hermano bebe que la vida es breve

[SoCal Alan]

Originally Posted by Capt AWACS

Oh kid I don't know you must be mad cause you didn't get laid on new years. Sorry kid.

Did you think my comment was directed at you? Well you must be a self proclaimed douche bag then are you the nimby type to move to an airport then bitch about planes? Sad.

I don't really like American's Maybe Osama was right

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Hermano bebe que la vida es breve

You don't have to call me a kid. I already know I'm older than you by about 10 years. But you know, you're a real class act throwing out names no matter who it was directed at. I love the military and fully support them and their mission, wherever they are. I just don't think we need to be a member of a respected organization and lower ourselves by calling someone names, directed at me or otherwise. I fully take back my statement regarding John Kerry because that is idiotic. But you don't have to lower yourself by calling people names, now do ya?

[Major AWACS]

(I don't feel like calling you pops just yet because you posted an assine reponse. Are the 40s as bad as they say or is it the new 30s) Who did I call a name again?

I never called you a name. Again do You somehow feel my douche bag comment was directed at you when as I noted above it was not? Well if you feel that way so be it, sorry.

People and developers who buy cheap land near airports to make quick land profits need not bitch about noise--- aside from the fact the planes how are 4x quiter than 30 years ago.
The only plane noise exempt in Europe is mine and it will soon be the same in the US. Developers should do a better job of soundproofing or move on. It is the same as building in aflood plain. I dealt with those idiots when I worked at Fidelity Flood. Don't build in a flood plain then be surprised when your house floods. Don't build near an airport then complain about noise.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Texas-It's bigger than France

[SoCal Alan]

Originally Posted by Capt AWACS

(I don't feel like calling you pops just yet because you posted an assine reponse. Are the 40s as bad as they say or is it the new 30s) Who did I call a name again?

I never called you a name. Again do You somehow feel my douche bag comment was directed at you when as I noted above it was not? Well if you feel that way so be it, sorry.

Did you think my John Kerry quote was directed at you?

[Major AWACS]

Well unlike my initial thread response I did not quote you or reference you in my post. You however did quote me in your response so I don't know.

Share with us who it was directed at in this post then. Other than the fact you already appoligised for making the off colour remark directed at me. Which I said was fine (seeing as how I resigned my commision to become a lobbyist in may itjust made me laugh anyway).

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Honk if you love Capt-AWACS