Why is Denver so Expen$ive? - Page 14

COtoOC · #**261** Posted **May 17, 2019, 3:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL

Give me a break. MO politics is awful but much of the state is beautiful including the Ozarks and its amazing river and cave systems. Plenty of awful persisting in CO as well despite its relatively recent influx of rich, educated white people.

I was joking. I grew up in KC, so I'm quite familiar with the state. But I like to call it Mizzery, like I call Topeka, KS Topuka.

COtoOC · #**262** Posted **May 17, 2019, 3:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I made the drive Denver to Phoenix and it was about 14 hours. It appears that Denver is the halfway point between Minneapolis and Phoenix.

It's also the halfway point between Aurora and Lakewood

Steely Dan · #**263** Posted **May 17, 2019, 3:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I made the drive Denver to Phoenix and it was about 14 hours. It appears that Denver is the halfway point between Minneapolis and Phoenix.

according to google maps, denver is also really close to the midway point between chicago and LA in terms of driving time. chicago to denver is ~14.5 hours and denver to LA is ~15 hours.

#**264** Posted **May 17, 2019, 3:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023

Not a college sports fan are you?

I'm not, but based on the context it didn't read as just a double-z Mizzou reference, if that's what you mean. All good. It was a joke apparently. Just irks me when people disregard any place that doesn't have 14K-foot mountains or an ocean. There's a ton a beauty in Missouri, and a ton of history and culture in its cities. In terms of day-to-day life I happen to be more partial to vegetation and fresh water than arid plains and rocky mountainscapes, but to each their own. MO politics definitely sucks these days but (hopefully) politics is transient. Wasn't that long ago that Colorado was a red state too.

Centropolis · #**265** Posted **May 17, 2019, 4:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

I drove from Minneapolis to Denver once, because it is our closest city to the west. It took about thirteen hours.

i always forget how far west minneapolis is...i thought kansas city was both closer to mpls and much further west than mpls. the drive to mpls from st. louis is like driving to new orleans (since it's not just one fast shot of interstate), whereas the drive from kc to mpls seemed like a half day or something.

Centropolis · #**266** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:04 PM**

when i lived in kc, i could do the "run" in under 8 hours. there was always the "goodland monster" to look out for on the kansas side of the ks/co border. i just fly from st. louis and use the heavy rail line now to downtown denver, of course. stl to den is easy as pie, it's basically just up, short cruise, and back down and dirt cheap like all the southwest interior to interior flights can be and no car rental crap at DIA, anymore.

Steely Dan · #**267** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the drive to mpls from st. louis is like driving to new orleans (since it's not just one fast shot of interstate), whereas the drive from kc to mpls seemed like a half day or something.

yeah, there is a bigger drive time difference between KC -> MSP and STL -> MSP than i would have guessed.

according to google maps:

KC -> MSP: 6:20

STL -> MSP: 8:20

an extra 2 hours of driving when my mental map says "ehhhh, they're probably roughly the same".

the magic (or lack thereof) of the interstate highway system.

Centropolis · #**268** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah, there is a bigger drive time difference between KC -> MSP and STL -> MSP than i would have guessed.

according to google maps:

KC -> MSP: 6:20

STL -> MSP: 8:20

an extra 2 hours of driving when my mental map says "ehhhh, they're probably roughly the same".

the magic (or lack thereof) of the interstate highway system.

in my head, new orleans and mpls are both 9 hour drives. to be fair, I-55 really does move faster than the trickle up to the twin cities...its perfectly reasonable to put your cruise control on 80.

Buckeye Native 001 · #**269** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:26 PM**

That took some getting used to moving from Cincinnati to Phoenix. The closest big metros are LA, San Diego and Vegas, all within a 5 to 6 hour drive through vast stretches of desert. Within 2 to 3 hours from Cincinnati are Indianapolis, Columbus, Dayton, Louisville and Lexington.

Centropolis · #**270** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

That took some getting used to moving from Cincinnati to Phoenix. The closest big metros are LA, San Diego and Vegas, all within a 5 to 6 hour drive through vast stretches of desert. Within 2 to 3 hours from Cincinnati are Indianapolis, Columbus, Dayton, Louisville and Lexington.

that's kind of a conveniently spaced node of the midwest...once you get west of indy the spaces broaden out noticeably.

memph · #**271** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:46 PM**

I wonder how much of it has to do with a lot of people moving to Denver from California. Californians might've bought homes when they were less expensive and benefited from appreciation, or bought them on strong Silicon Valley incomes, and can sell their California home in exchange for a bigger Denver home for the same price even if their incomes don't go up by moving.

Meanwhile in a city like Houston or Dallas, much of the people are coming from the Midwest, Deep South and Great Plains and Florida where housing values are lower.

Steely Dan · #**272** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

that's kind of a conveniently spaced node of the midwest...once you get west of indy the spaces broaden out noticeably.

chicago isn't too bad.

metros over 500K within a 3 hour drive:

milwaukee: 1:30
madison: 2:30
indianapolis: 3:00
grand rapids: 3:00

but yeah, going west, shit starts getting pulled further apart pretty quickly

goat314 · #**273** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis

that's kind of a conveniently spaced node of the midwest...once you get west of indy the spaces broaden out noticeably.

Exactly, everything west of the Mississippi is big open sky country. Which is exactly why St. Louis is called the gateway to the West. Once you see the Arch, expect at least half a day drives to the next major settlement. That was true in the Lewis and Clark days and is still true in the 21st century.

edale · #**274** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by goat314

Exactly, everything west of the Mississippi is big open sky country. Which is exactly why St. Louis is called the gateway to the West. Once you see the Arch, expect at least half a day drives to the next major settlement. That was true in the Lewis and Clark days and is still true in the 21st century.

Isn't KC only 3 hours from St. Louis? West of Kansas City it's very sparse. I think the isolation of a city like Denver, Minneapolis, or Salt Lake City would drive me crazy. There aren't too many other cities within a reasonable drive from LA, but I do enjoy having San Diego and Santa Barbara close enough for weekend or even day trips. Vegas is drivable, but it's much easier to just fly out of Burbank. Traffic coming back from Vegas can turn the ~4 hour trip into 7-8 hours. No joke.

Centropolis · #**275** Posted **May 17, 2019, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by goat314

Exactly, everything west of the Mississippi is big open sky country. Which is exactly why St. Louis is called the gateway to the West. Once you see the Arch, expect at least half a day drives to the next major settlement. That was true in the Lewis and Clark days and is still true in the 21st century.

and if you're on I-70, that gateway feel doubles down at the west edge of downtown kansas city, at least for me, because you're in this in another 1.5 hours.

https://visitemporia.com

goat314 · #**276** Posted **May 17, 2019, 6:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

chicago isn't too bad.

metros over 500K within a 3 hour drive:

milwaukee: 1:30
madison: 2:30
indianapolis: 3:00
grand rapids: 3:00

but yeah, going west, shit starts getting pulled further apart pretty quickly

Blame the Mississippi and Ohio River Basins, along with the Great Lakes. People traditionally settled near major bodies of water. Once you get past Kansas City there are really no "river cities" to speak of and the next Great Lake is the small salty one in Utah. Any major city between West of St. Louis and East of Los Angeles owes it's existence to Lincoln and Eisenhower.

Centropolis · #**277** Posted **May 17, 2019, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

Isn't KC only 3 hours from St. Louis? West of Kansas City it's very sparse. I think the isolation of a city like Denver, Minneapolis, or Salt Lake City would drive me crazy. There aren't too many other cities within a reasonable drive from LA, but I do enjoy having San Diego and Santa Barbara close enough for weekend or even day trips. Vegas is drivable, but it's much easier to just fly out of Burbank. Traffic coming back from Vegas can turn the ~4 hour trip into 7-8 hours. No joke.

it's a bit more than that, but there's a noticeable stepdown in overall density and interstate connectivity west and southwest of st. louis. although, ironically because of this, I-70 feels busier west of st. louis.

edale · #**278** Posted **May 17, 2019, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by goat314

Blame the Mississippi and Ohio River Basins, along with the Great Lakes. People traditionally settled near major bodies of water. Once you get past Kansas City there are really no "river cities" to speak of and the next Great Lake is the small salty one in Utah. Any major city between West of St. Louis and East of Los Angeles owes it's existence to Lincoln and Eisenhower.

Sacramento!

goat314 · #**279** Posted **May 17, 2019, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

Isn't KC only 3 hours from St. Louis? West of Kansas City it's very sparse. I think the isolation of a city like Denver, Minneapolis, or Salt Lake City would drive me crazy. There aren't too many other cities within a reasonable drive from LA, but I do enjoy having San Diego and Santa Barbara close enough for weekend or even day trips. Vegas is drivable, but it's much easier to just fly out of Burbank. Traffic coming back from Vegas can turn the ~4 hour trip into 7-8 hours. No joke.

You can get there in a solid 4. Yes, those 3 cities are super isolated and have huge hinterlands. The Twin Cities in particular seem very disconnected from the rest of the Midwest in my opinion. Growing up to St. Louis, it was common to hear people going to Chicago, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Des Moines, Omaha, occasionally Detroit, or an Ohio city. Yet, I had never been to the Twin Cities and I actually have family up there. They always used to just come down to Missouri or Illinois for family reunions, because most of my family lives on the I-55 corridor from St. Louis to Chicago.

goat314 · #**280** Posted **May 17, 2019, 6:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

Sacramento!

Sacramento is a river city the same way that Philadelphia is a River City. Meaning it sits on the banks of a coastal inlet that spills out into the ocean. Somebody from St. Louis or Cincinnati would scuff at the idea of Sacramento being considered a river city. You're too close to the coast and Sacramento is the only major city note on that body of water.

The Heartland is where the river cities be my friend.