Hamilton Votes 2008

[ryan_mcgreal]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

I think you'll find most Canadians have no objection to her participation in the debate

In the poll I saw, 77% of Canadians supporter her inclusion.

Originally Posted by markbarbera

The Liberals are countering these ads heavily this week, and Dion is coming out stronger than expected thus far.

His liar, liar statement yesterday was a surprising - and welcome - sign of a newfound scrappiness.

My hunch is that the Conservatives' over-the-top attacks on Dion's Green Shift will backfire. Harper simply has no credibility whatsoever on climate change and energy issues after two and a half years of inaction, and people are really conscious of these issues after the run-up in gas prices.

Ancaster - Dundas - Flamborough - Westdale
Gordon Guyatt NDP

Extraordinarily unlikely. Ancaster and Flamborough tend Conservative while Dundas tends Liberal and Westdale tends NDP. I think Sweet will hold his seat.

And, in the end of it, we will have yet another minority government. What a waste of $400 million!

Voters generally don't like snap elections. This in itself could fuel a backlash.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'll be skipping the vote this time.

Thus increasing the chances for the 4 candidates you like the least.

[SteelTown]

Dr. Guyatt used to be my family doctor on King St. Dr. Guyatt is the father of the Guyatt running for NDP.

[markbarbera]

On the subject of polls, while they really generally must be taken with a grain of salt, those conducted by Nanos (formerly SES) have been been a disturbingly accurate reflection of the actual outcome of the elections.

Their final poll prior to the last Federal election had the Conservatives at 36.4%, the Liberals at 30.1%, the NDP at 17.4%, the Bloc at 10.6%, and the Greens at 5.6%. Election day results were Conservatives at 36.3%, the Liberals at 30.2%, the NDP at 17.5%, the Bloc at 10.5%, and the Greens at 5.5%.

Nanos' most recent poll was conducted August 20-27, and showed the Liberals at 35%, Conservatives at 33%, NDP at 17%, the Bloc at 8%, and Greens at 7%.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'll be skipping the vote this time.
I almost skipped last time, but this one takes the cake. Having an election just so one big money party machine can try to waste some of the other big money party machine's money is disgusting.

They all suck.

Really? IMO that certainly discounts your credibility in future political discussions.None of the above is not a credible position in a democracy.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

I'll be skipping the vote this time.
I almost skipped last time, but this one takes the cake. Having an election just so one big money party machine can try to waste some of the other big money party machine's money is disgusting.

They all suck.

You not voting, that'll show them!!!

If you don't like it then might I suggest you vote Green, I'm sure they'll appreciate the vote and they are a little more grass roots than the other parties. Heck, we live in Hamilton and there have been how many 'emissions' from the steel plants this summer. That alone should make a vote for the Green's worthwhile.

Me personally, I was right of centre for much of my life. As I've aged, I've moved centre and then left of centre in my views, even if my voting patterns didn't reflect that change from right of centre. This year is going to be different.

I heard Elizabeth May on CBC's The House on the Labour Day weekend. I have to say I was impressed with her, her policies and her opinions. She made a big enough impression and enough sense to me that she won my vote.

In the last elections I was totally against another party (Green) in the debates, this year I'm 180 from that position.

For the record the reason 3 parties were against the Green's being in the debate was because the Conservatives were going to take their ball and go home (that's exactly what they were going to do). And those parties wanted a shot at the Conservatives more than they wanted the Greens in the debate.

[highwater]

I sure hope you're right, Mark. I agree that Sweet is vulnerable. He got in largely on the anti-Liberal backlash last time so his support is shallow, and his performance has been decidedly underwhelming. This is my riding so I'll be voting strategically this time out. I'll be supporting whoever I think has the best chance against Sweet. I bet on Guyatt last time out, but the Liberal (Russ Powers?) actually got more votes, so now I'm not sure which way to go.

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Really? IMO that certainly discounts your credibility in future political discussions.None of the above is not a credible position in a democracy.

yea, you're right. Because I choose to not participate in a huge waste of taxpayers dollars by some of the most greedy, corrupt corporations on the planet eliminates my opinion on political issues?? Wow....they really got you to suck back the koolaid.

[MsMe]

This called election sure opened a can of worms eh.

[SteelTown]

Today Harper made an election promise to cut the gas tax. C'MON! Cities all over Canada are begging for more infrastructure funding and you'd think he could have instead promising to transfer the gas tax to cities instead of cutting it.

This is exactly why I don't vote for the Conservatives.

[go_leafs_go02]

I'll be voting Conservative. I techincally live in Hamilton Mountain, but I'll be casting my vote in my hometown riding, as that riding should shape up to be more of a battle. (London - West)

[raisethehammer]

CUT the gas tax??? Wow. shows how out of touch with reality these clowns really are.
I can't believe that. There must be more to the story. He NEEDS urban votes desperately.

[markbarbera]

It's a cut to the excise tax on diesel. Designed to woo transport truck drivers and farmers. Set up to counter Dion's promise of a carbon tax rebate to the same group of voters.

Other significant items from today's campaign: Dion pledges to restore the court challenges program axed by the Tories in 2006, and pledges to ban semi-automatic weapons. Layton pledges to, er, not debate Elizabeth May. On her part, May launches legal action against the network consortium's decision to bar her from leaders debates (you go girl!). Duceppe exposes a Quebec Tory candidate as a member of the ultra-right wing religious sect of Opus Dei.

Oh yeah, and Harper has to apologize for his campaign's childish antic of having the website adorned with an animated puffin pooping on Dion.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

CUT the gas tax??? Wow. shows how out of touch with reality these clowns really are.
I can't believe that. There must be more to the story. He NEEDS urban votes desperately.

Sounds like you care. Maybe you should vote.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

It's a cut to the excise tax on diesel. Designed to woo transport truck drivers and farmers. Set up to counter Dion's promise of a carbon tax rebate to the same group of voters.

Gas price could jump 5% in a week and no one will have noticed the 2% cut on gas tax. It's a stupid plan.

[DC83]

^^ some said that about the GST reduction, and it still won people over.

Generally, there are voters who are stupid and will vote with whoever is going to save THEM the most money. If it's $0.02 on a bag of chips, sure! If it's $0.53 on a tank of gas the "HELL YA I'm votin for the guy that's going to save me $50 over the matter of 12 months!"

Our job, as educated individuals, is to bring light to these useless promises and expose them for what they are:
-decrease in GST saves you almost no money, and lowers the GST rebate cheque amount for those who need it most
-decrease in a fuel tax that goes (almost) directly back to the Cities that run Canada!
-Harper, an american-styled social conservative who only smiles b/c his team of publicists tell him to.

I don't see how Westerners can see right thru this guy? His eyes scream 'Hidden Agenda'... or maybe it's the hand-wringing & lip-licking? I dunno he's just creepy.

[markbarbera]

Again, I clarify: It is a reduction in the excise tax on diesel fuel only. Not gas. It will effect precious few people. But it sure sounds good.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Yes--the mania/hysteria here about this gas tax cut (which is only on diesel) shows exactly how willing everyone is to be right. Perhaps it's Dion that's the one that's out-of-touch with the destruction his ill-timed Green Shift will bring to the economy and to middle-class Canadians.

As for A-D-F-W, it actually hasn't changed all that much. It has been a traditional Conservative stronghold for decades that went Liberal only in the "red wave" elections of the 1990s. The additional of Westdale has changed the dynamic somewhat--but no more so than past inclusions of parts of Aldershot and Hamilton Mountain did.

What does it say about our country when it is noteworthy that a candidate has been "exposed" as a Christian...

[markbarbera]

You should read the actual Liberal Green Shift plan. Contrary to Jason Kenny's mantra, this is not a new tax in the sense that it is an additional tax. It is a complete redesign of the tax system so it is no longer based on income but on consumption. IMO a consumption tax is a fairer system of taxation.

Fastcarsfreedom, you and I both know that membership to Opus Dei is not significant simply because it is a Christian religion.

As far as ADFW goes, we'll have to watch this riding on October 14. I'll be prepared to eat crow if Sweet returns, but I think I'll be having a steak dinner that night...

[DC83]

Wow. To be honest I was completely ignorant on the whole Green Shift plan, but just finished reading up about it and am pretty impressed.

What has Harper and his conservatives done for the Environment over the last 2.5 years?

Dion is right, this [Green Shift policy] is not an easy choice -- it's the right choice!