Halifax Stadium Location

[q12]

3 developers offer land for Halifax stadium
CBC News Posted: Sep 16, 2011 7:50 PM AT
Last Updated: Sep 16, 2011 9:19 PM AT

Halifax Regional Council has started looking around for a place to build a stadium, and three private bidders offered up some land for sale to the city this week.

Two of them are old quarries.

Parkdale Developments wants to sell the city 50 hectares of land along Highway 102 next to the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, and the group that owns Dartmouth Crossing is offering a similar sized lot near its shopping village.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...ium-sites.html

[Wishblade]

I voted Dartmouth Crossing due to its great highway connections and nearby restraunts and entertainment.

The airport location is just way too far to travel to from the city, and Shannon Park is too open to the elements. Though I think if you were to ask residents outside HRM where they would like to see a stadium built, most would say the airport location as its more central to them.

[MonctonRad]

No, I voted for DC too. The airport would not be convenient for people coming from the valley or from the city. On the other hand, it's not that much farther inbound for people driving from Truro, New Glasgow (or Moncton) to go to DC.

DC is a good compromise. The airport on the other hand would be inconvenient for most urban Haligonians.

[halifaxboyns]

The airport location may have been a good candidate if the airport BRT was operating; but even then it still would be a huge challenge. I also prefer to see the stadium located on a site where there is municipal water/sewer; whereas the airport has it's own well system and septic trucking (as I understand it).

I would have voted for Shannon park; but the feds don't seem to have put it forward. I could see Shannon with a stadium and it would've been interesting - but if it doesn't, then it just means more room for residential mixed use development.

DC is probably the best location of those put forward. It has challenges, but most sites do. We'll see how it goes...

[Welkin]

Shannon Park has to many development opportunities to be used as a stadium site. I agree that it is better suited for mixed residential. The only downside to Dartmouth Crossing is losing the appeal of a downtown stadium and all the ambiance that brings. Outside of that it has plenty of land for onsite parking, good access to offsite parking, decent transportation options and plenty of local restaurants for pre-game/post-game celebrations. I believe that it is the best overall option so far and it is good to know that it is available for purchase. I can't wait to see something happen.

[q12]

I voted for Dartmouth Crossing.

I've been in favor of many locations, but now that DC is being offered up by the owners that puts it into a path of least resistance. With the sunken bowl idea, I think for an outdoor stadium it will give fans the best weather conditions in Halifax. Also there is a couple hotels with in short distance like the Hampton Inn, and there is suppose to be another hotel built near the new Tim's in DC (Homewood Suites by Hilton I believe).

[Dmajackson]

I still think that the best location is Windmill @ Victoria in Burnside (former steel factory). It has great connections to most of HRM and getting there from Truro or the Valley is easy. Transit connections are decent and could be better with little effort, and its not downtown but its still in town. Also there is no residents nearby to complain.

[fenwick16]

I exported a terrain map of Shannon Park from the Google SketchUp program. I also posted the identical terrain map in shaded mode in order to show a better contrast (below). Shannon Park appears to be in a bit of a gully, and is protected on the north/northwest side by the elevated bridge approach. It is also protected on the east/southeast side by elevated terrain.

I also looked up a reference to the prevailing winds for Nova Scotia which states: (source: http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mnh/nature/nhns/t5/t5-2.pdf)

W I N D S
Winds are strongest in the colder months and blow
most frequently from the west of northwest as the
cold arctic air moves in. In the summer, winds from
the southeast or south predominate.

PS: Can anyone provide more detailed information on the prevailing winds throughout the summer/fall months? (a monthly graph of wind data would be great)


I think that if there is a clear understanding of the wind patterns at the Shannon Park location during the summer and fall months, then the stadium architects could design the stadium so that it has shelter from the prevailing winds. For example, instead of having the stadium open towards the harbour (facing the southern prevailing winds during the summer), have it closed on the southern side to shelter spectators from southeast and southern winds. In addition, a dirt berm and trees would provide a good wind break from the prevailing southern winds.




I prefer a location as close to the urban core as possible. So I personally prefer Shannon Park (unless an even more central location is available).

[-Harlington-]

I know theres quite a bit of vacant land near the Macdonald bridge on the Dartmouth side

Im not sure who owns it or anything but its worth a look .

[MalcolmTucker]

Where ever it goes, they should look at Empire Stadium in Vancouver, the temporary one they built for this year while BC Place is closed. It may not be much in ways of aesthetics, but it was cheap!

I am sure some of the design innovation could help there to keep the cost down, as long as the city doesn't go on monument building and scope creeping.

[halifaxboyns]

I keep flip flopping on the stadium location; I have two preferences. But I have to keep reminding myself; this is the city's first stadium. 20 years from now, there may be more than one...

Shannon is an difficult cookie to chew on. The feds haven't offered up the land and no one knows if they will. I have a feeling they won't, since Canada Lands has been silent through this process. If that's the case, we can dream about it being there all we want...it won't happen.

Fenwick's graphic does make a good point that the wind issues can be fixed by adding development of a certain height at strategic locations to reduce the impact of wind and fog. I felt that the CG design really didn't think about using the site as a mix of uses and just focused on the stadium. They could've had a really nice mixed use community on the shoreline edge to create a boardwalk - thus creating a mechanism to reduce the impact of wind and fog (make the buildings taller or orient them in such a way to reduce wind).

I was doing some sketching last night (to take my mind off the air canada strike, since I'm 'flying' to Halifax on Friday with AC - hopefully) and I did a preliminary zoning and road sketch of what I was talking about for putting more restaurants close by. Yes, there are a few 'across the street' - but that's a big road to cross. A ped bridge would be necessary and people aren't likely going to walk there and back to the stadium if the route isn't too friendly. Which is why I was thinking that adjacent to the stadium site you could put up a couple restaurants, in addition to the sea of parking that will likely occur.

[hollistreet]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Where ever it goes, they should look at Empire Stadium in Vancouver, the temporary one they built for this year while BC Place is closed. It may not be much in ways of aesthetics, but it was cheap!

I am sure some of the design innovation could help there to keep the cost down, as long as the city doesn't go on monument building and scope creeping.

What are they dooing with the temporary one when BC Place is open agian?

[MalcolmTucker]

Maybe Halifax could buy it - who knows?

[q12]

Just did a check today and over the last couple of days of afternoon temperatures around HRM with Environment Canada and Nova Scotia Transportation and Infrastructure renewal cameras http://www.gov.ns.ca/tran/cameras/.

The Portabello station was up to 25 degrees celcius today which was the hottest I could find around and is only 2 miles north of the Dartmouth Crossing Quarry.


I think if the Dartmouth Crossing site is chosen that it will always be a plus that it has a warm climate.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by q12

I think if the Dartmouth Crossing site is chosen that it will always be a plus that it has a warm climate.

Then people will be able to complain, "It's TOO HOT !!!!!"

[resetcbu1]

I hate to be negative ...... but I really don't think any site outside of the urban core will be a success and I grew up my whole life in dartmouth. Does anyone here remember a minor pro soccer team based in dartmouth???? If no that is most likely because you never crossed the water to see them play(or were too young) or when the halifax exports breifly moved accross the bay also not a success.........And what about the Montreal Expos(my favorite team) part of their demisse was the fact they couldn't get a stadium closer to the downtown and good transit and soon moved to washington.

I think for the first little bit a stadium anywhere in HRM would draw, but after the novelty wore off people will become more reluctant to travel further out to the "burbs" to see events. This has happened more than a few times through-out North America I assume.

I hope to see a stadium built, and any step in that direction is great, it is just my opinion that for long term sustainability it needs to be a central locale.

my vote : other

[someone123]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

I think for the first little bit a stadium anywhere in HRM would draw, but after the novelty wore off people will become more reluctant to travel further out to the "burbs" to see events. This has happened more than a few times through-out North America I assume.

I agree. I think it is yet another decision based on short term concerns (save a few million dollars, perhaps avoid upsetting some NIMBYs) that could end up being less than ideal. A suburban location might not be a disaster but it won't have the same atmosphere and it won't build on existing attractions the way a more central stadium would. The best cities have lots of amenities concentrated in a small area. Halifax is so small that if it gets too spread out it really won't have much to offer.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by resetcbu1

And what about the Montreal Expos(my favorite team) part of their demisse was the fact they couldn't get a stadium closer to the downtown and good transit and soon moved to washington.

Stadium location for the Expos was a problem but Olympic Stadium actually has pretty good transit with two métro stations serving it. Never had a problem getting in and out of there.

[someone123]

This sums up my concern pretty well. Yes, there may be some restaurants near by the DC site - but would you really feel safe crossing a 6 lane street to get to them?

Yep, there's probably a shitty Boston Pizza or whatever that you'll have to spend 30 minutes getting to because the area will be gridlocked post-game despite claims that a location next to a highway solves the traffic problem.

One big company has a monopoly on the land nearby and tends to sell it off to bland national or multinational companies with no particular attachment to Halifax. The area will be devoid of culture or interest for the foreseeable future and will be discarded whenever it's deemed marginally unprofitable by somebody in Toronto or wherever, which is probably going to happen if gas prices double or triple (again).

At minimum I'd suggest a pedestrian bridge over that wonderful 6 lane roadway into DC so pedestrians that want to actually go to the restaurants in DC aren't taking their lives in their own hands.

This is the most palatable solution and yet it results in a slog of hundreds of meters through one of the least interesting environments imaginable. Meanwhile within similar distances downtown there's way more of everything, including parking spots and traffic lanes.

It would be no different though for Shannon. A re-work of the road system would be required and you'd still have the same problem of little to no restaurants near by either.

I don't like Shannon much either. A ferry at least could work there and would be kind of interesting, though in practice that might be bungled by the city. Mostly I like the idea of Shannon Park because it's not way out in the suburbs. I'd prefer a location around the Commons, maybe something by the Seawall, around Young Street, or on that big field by Robie Street/SMU. I think it would be better to wait a few years for a stadium on a good location than to put out in a marginal suburban location for the sake of FIFA.

The only consolation here I guess is that I don't really care about the stadium itself that much. And I live in a city that correctly built a stadium downtown right next to rapid transit.

[halifaxboyns]

Each site presents interesting challenges and opportunities.

DC presents the challenge of the access road system and servicing event participants by transit and for entertainment. Getting across that 6 lane road is the first major issue, then there is getting some commercial near by the stadium and a road design that isn't a parking lot during events or a challenge for people going to DC for the shops versus stadium events. I don't see transit for a DC stadium (or even another site) as being so much of a challenge mainly because you could establish a series of BRTs from different locations that have 1 or 2 stops before going straight to the stadium. That's fine and could be included in the event ticket - good pre-planning on the part of any team.

Shannon would be a whole new ball game in the sense that not only could you build a stadium but you could build a whole new community, from the ground up. So not only would you need to deal with road access and getting over the railway crossing - but also sewage capacity, storm water run off, design of the roads system and what kind of community would you have (mixed use, high density residential, etc.). Transit would be a different challenge because not only would you need to think about a road system, but you have the opportunity of a high speed ferry link (which obvious DC doesn't). The opportunity for SP is greater (in my mind) because even with a stadium, you could promote the use of the parking areas as a transit station during the weekdays, when nothing typically happens at the stadium. I can't quite see the same concept for DC when you have Mic Mac station so close by. But that might change if DC gets a stadium because I read that there was some discussion of moving the Burnside Bus station to this location, so then it might be workable to move the whole thing here?

I have to admit I haven't read the articles about the bids - what are the other two locations that came up?