DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[mhays]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Vancouver has a more comparable example.

I was about to post something about the difficulty of stacking a Home Depot, but the Vancouver one tells the story. I think I posted about this before. They seem to keep the interior open by stacking the housing along the perimeter, not putting a lot of extra structure, egress, etc. in the store.

[spr8364]

Originally Posted by BG918

Here are a couple, I think that's a new river bridge they're showing at Mississippi

I think that bridge is north of Mississippi, around Kentucky or Tennessee. There are three apartment blocks south of the bridge but north of Mississippi.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by mhays

I was about to post something about the difficulty of stacking a Home Depot, but the Vancouver one tells the story. I think I posted about this before. They seem to keep the interior open by stacking the housing along the perimeter, not putting a lot of extra structure, egress, etc. in the store.

I do remember that. However, I don’t believe the Denver example does this. It’s pretty straightforward stacking if I remember correctly.

[Cirrus]

So you have more columns inside. So what? Home Depot may not like it, but there's nothing for sale in there that can't fit between the columns of a building. It all had to arrive by truck, after all. That issue is no different than when Target used to say they *had* to have one-story stores with giant surface parking lots out front. No they absolutely did not.

So what am I missing? Noise? Nighttime loading? Rats? What's the supposed problem?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

So you have more columns inside. So what? Home Depot may not like it, but there's nothing for sale in there that can't fit between the columns of a building. It all had to arrive by truck, after all. That issue is no different than when Target used to say they *had* to have one-story stores with giant surface parking lots out front. No they absolutely did not.

So what am I missing? Noise? Nighttime loading? Rats? What's the supposed problem?

I knew it; it's those damn rats.

I'm having great difficultly envisioning how this will work. According RDS70:

The Project is anticipated to provide ground floor retail space of approximately 136,080 SF with 106 surface parking spaces. There will be a 10-story residential tower and an 11-story office tower that have a shared lobby entry along the primary street of Galapago Street. Three total above grade parking levels will also be provided. A pedestrian bridge will constructed to provide multi-modal connectivity to the RTD Station to the north.

You have an office tower and a residential tower with shared lobby that includes three levels of above ground parking. Where's the Home Depot/136,000 Sq Ft of retail fit in?

Does this help? https://www.integralgroup.com/projects/the-rise/

Located in the heart of Vancouver’s uptown Fairview community, the Rise is a 605,000 ft² sustainable mixed use retail/residential development sitting on an entire city block.

The development consists of three levels of retail space leased to major national retailers... Above the retailers sit 92 live-work rental lofts surrounding a 20,000 ft² green roof and a community garden.

Doesn't really sound like the same development approach.

136,000 Sq Ft of retail is a larger area. Just a guess that's it's stacked between the residential and office plus parking podiums except where the shared lobby is? Or maybe the retail is stacked at one end of the site?

[mhays]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

So you have more columns inside. So what? Home Depot may not like it, but there's nothing for sale in there that can't fit between the columns of a building. It all had to arrive by truck, after all. That issue is no different than when Target used to say they *had* to have one-story stores with giant surface parking lots out front. No they absolutely did not.

So what am I missing? Noise? Nighttime loading? Rats? What's the supposed problem?

My understanding is that efficiency, safety, and sightlines would all be issues. (This isn't the sort of thing my company builds, though we did a stacked big box for a developer with Target etc. in 2000...very different)

Columns could be half the story. Putting housing above the high ceilings of a Home Depot would also require heavier structure (large columns) and potentially even some cross-bracing (more useful in a seismic zone). If housing covered the whole block, they might need a big elevator/stair core in the middle of the store. That means non-optimal space, impacting desirability for the tenant and the landlord.

A retailer like this wants big, simple layouts with no obstructions. Those allow efficient use of space and standardization. It also means customers can see long distances. Every column means a workaround that takes a large amount of space, especially considering forklift access is needed to much of the shelving at a Home Depot.

Noise would certainly be an issue. A Home Depot will get some commercial trade. The closest one to me opens at 6:00 am, and probably does good business at that hour. Even if the urban HD isn't full service (if it lacks 30' ceilings and a garden center for example, and doesn't have trucks backing up with beepers all day) it'll be noisy at that time.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by spr8364

I think that bridge is north of Mississippi, around Kentucky or Tennessee. There are three apartment blocks south of the bridge but north of Mississippi.

So this is all north of Tennessee? Are they planning to extend Tennessee through to the Gates development?

Yellow=Broadway Yards office
Red = Gates District residential/office/retail
Blue = Tennessee Ave

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by BG918

So this is all north of Tennessee? Are they planning to extend Tennessee through to the Gates development?

No. It looks like Tennessee would be extended across the Platte River and then feed into the Santa Fe Yards project by hooking north, but it wouldn't go across the railroad tracks. So it would be the primary vehicular entrance/exit for this office development and would serve the parking garages that would/will be going in. Which makes sense as Santa Fe would be the primary route to access I-25.

[TakeFive]

National Medal of Honor Museum selects Texas site over Denver
Oct 02, 2019 By Ryan Osborne - 7News Denver

Museum officials chose Arlington, Texas, over Denver, in an announcement Wednesday. The museum is scheduled to open in 2024 near Arlington's AT&T Stadium, the home of the Dallas Cowboys.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

National Medal of Honor Museum selects Texas site over Denver
Oct 02, 2019 By Ryan Osborne - 7News Denver

Fuck Texas. All the state is good for is a buffer in case of invasion.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

National Medal of Honor Museum selects Texas site over Denver
Oct 02, 2019 By Ryan Osborne - 7News Denver

Not surprising considering the lukewarm response RTD and city officials have compared to Arlington. The RTD board members comments about “I don’t know how many Medal of Honor recipients there are or why they need a Museum” were about as tone deaf as you can get.

[The Dirt]

Hey, it's got great access to Walmart!

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Hey, it's got great access to Walmart!

That was apparently the edge for Arlington- it's on a giant-ass parking lot with future expansion ability. Which is probably a good thing because Texas tourists tend to be of the plus-size variety so they'll probably have to include features such as extra wide doorways and reinforced toilets with oversized stalls.

The lard will be heavy in this museum.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

That was apparently the edge for Arlington- it's on a giant-ass parking lot with future expansion ability.

Yup... https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

In the end, it came down to the land.

In his only interview with Colorado media, Joe Daniels, president and CEO of the National Medal of Honor Museum Foundation, told Denver Business Journal that the land Arlington offered wasn’t just free — it was sizable and allowed for a future expansion of the museum.

“At the end of the day, we felt the space that Arlington put behind the project offered us the flexibility we will need in the future,” he said. “As much as we appreciated the importance of the location in Denver — right by the Capitol building — it didn’t afford us that flexibility.”

But it doesn't seem like this was ever a fair fight. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

But Arlington, a suburb of Dallas/Fort Worth, offered free land and endorsements from heavy hitters such as former President George W. Bush and Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, and those, along with the state’s large cohort of military veterans, seemed to tip the scale in that city’s favor in the end.

“All of us at the museum were simply overwhelmed with the enthusiasm, warmth and level of commitment of those involved, who have worked beyond expectation to have the museum come to Texas,” said Joe Daniels, president and CEO of the National Medal of Honor Museum Foundation, in a statement. “Seventy recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor have lived in the region and nearly 1.8 million veterans and active-duty military currently call Texas home.”

Foundation leaders seemed to point in a news release especially to the community support coming from the Dallas/Fort Worth area and the state of Texas as a deciding factor in placing the museum there, noting that four local architectural firms had bid to design the building in Arlington.

God, flag wavers and country.

Board members also looked closely at the communities’ overall and patriotic support for America’s history and evaluated the potential support of private individuals and the timeline for conveying the land for the property. Even after the Colorado EDC’s incentive offer, the state Legislature would still have to agree next year to sell or give the land to the foundation.

Yeah, Denver never really had a chance.

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Yup... https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

But it doesn't seem like this was ever a fair fight. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

God, flag wavers and country.

Yeah, Denver never really had a chance.

Yep. Culturally, it's a better fit in Texas than in Denver. Meanwhile, can RTD at least plant some g*damn flowers? Sheesh.

[BG918]

Wasn’t there a state office building once planned for this parking lot on Colfax?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Yup... https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

But it doesn't seem like this was ever a fair fight. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n..._news_headline

God, flag wavers and country.

Bah. Colorado has a veteran population of 400K, roughly 10% of CO's population are veterans. Texas has a veteran population of 1.5M, or about 5% of the state population. Texas is full of posers and hero worshipers who are too goddamn fat and cowardly to actually serve their country.

Which is probably are really good target audience for a museum such as this.

Yeah, Denver never really had a chance.

Ultimately true. Between the free land (lots of free land) and the lack of hurdles, Denver was the underdog.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by BG918

Wasn’t there a state office building once planned for this parking lot on Colfax?

Answered my own question with the help of Google and DenverInfill Any chance this comes back? Does the State need more office space near the Capitol?



https://denverinfill.com/blog/2008/0...rendering.html

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Bah. Colorado has a veteran population of 400K, roughly 10% of CO's population are veterans. Texas has a veteran population of 1.5M, or about 5% of the state population. Texas is full of posers and hero worshipers who are too goddamn fat and cowardly to actually serve their country.

Which is probably are really good target audience for a museum such as this.

Ultimately true. Between the free land (lots of free land) and the lack of hurdles, Denver was the underdog.

I suppose our devotion to God and country is more of the Red Dawn variety. Gotta say, when the invasion comes, I am not counting on Texas to be much of a buffer. The Alamo was a LOSS, kids.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I suppose our devotion to God and country is more of the Red Dawn variety. Gotta say, when the invasion comes, I am not counting on Texas to be much of a buffer. The Alamo was a LOSS, kids.

It's more of a defense in time versus a defense in depth when it comes to Texas. I expect the crisco down there to flow freely, but without much loss of momentum by the attacking force.