International Place | ? m | 22 fl | On Hold

[Pete Crawford]

Does anyone think there's much hope of the shipbuilding contract creating enough demand to prompt this development anytime soon?

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Pete Crawford

Does anyone think there's much hope of the shipbuilding contract creating enough demand to prompt this development anytime soon?

This development... I don't know its status.
If not this development, then another--yes.

The HRM was economically healthy before the shipbuilding contract. The developments that been occuring downtown are proof as to our renewed focus on the downtown, but it is nothing compared to the economic ball game we're playin' now!

Given the long-term (20+ years) nature of the shipbuilding contract, the sheer financial confidence will certainly move many developers to put a shovel into the ground.

From people I've conversed with, from the material I've read in the paper and online, and from what I've listened to on the radio--I've gathered that the vast majority of people in HRM are all but certain that the downtown will completely fill in within a decade. Simply put: there is going to be so much money flowing, and so many opportunities, it would require major obstruction from council to hinder the success of the downtown.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Lol, major obstruction from council = reality of the past 20 years.

[Jstaleness]

Almost 30yrs. 1984 was the year our last office tower was built right? At least the last office over 14 storeys.

[someone123]

No, I think Purdy's Wharf II was built around 1990 or so. There have also been a few small office buildings constructed downtown since then. For example, the TD building on SGR is office and is under construction now. Garden Crest built around 2004 or so has an office component, as does the building next to Cambridge Suites that went up about 10 years ago. The NSP building is a major office building under construction right now.

I doubt that shipbuilding stuff will translate directly into the kind of demand for office space that causes towers like International Place to be constructed. I think the most important things for the downtown are improved transit and residential infill, and those may be helped along by shipbuilding-related activity.

The problem right now isn't that Halifax has no growth, it's that 96% of new office space is ending up in the suburbs. This is being actively encouraged by the municipality when they subsidize new construction in areas like Bayers Lake and Burnside, or take on major highway projects while waffling on comparatively minor downtown and transit improvements. Development downtown is discouraged by poor infrastructure, NIMBYs, and some of the highest commercial tax rates in the country. These are serious problems and unfortunately there's been very little progress on them during the past 2 decades -- instead everybody worries about silly "development vs. heritage" and similar debates.

International Place specifically also seems like an example where the owner is just sitting back and waiting. My sense is that there are several downtown office developments that are being more actively marketed, like the Nova Centre and Waterside. It seems unlikely that IP would proceed out of the blue with those still sitting in the pipeline. And it seems like there's been very little success in pre-leasing Waterside.

[Jstaleness]

According to the emporis website Purdy's II was completed in 1985. I guess what I meant was that there hasn't been actual high rise complete office towers of those sizes since the 80's. There has been a lot of office just on the lower height levels.

[someone123]

Interesting. I thought I saw 1990 or so for one date. It might have been the Xerox building below or something. Summit Place is another later building -- again, not a highrise.

[Jstaleness]

Yeah, thank god for the G7 that year or we wouldn't even have that. I have always liked that building. To get back to topic though. I still really hope that IP could become residential. No one knows what will become of the interchange lands but lets say a small portion does become a small parkland. Water park for the kids in summer and small skating rink in the winter. Would be a really nice view if you ask me.

[someone123]

Residential could be great. Unfortunately this office proposal is basically from the 1970s and, instead of designing something to suit the market, the developer seems to prefer to wait until the market suits the proposal.

I am of the opinion that the city should be trying very hard to facilitate downtown residential.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

Residential could be great. Unfortunately this office proposal is basically from the 1970s and, instead of designing something to suit the market, the developer seems to prefer to wait until the market suits the proposal.

I am of the opinion that the city should be trying very hard to facilitate downtown residential.

I agree, but it shouldn't just be residential all over the place.
There seems to be (for the most part) a pretty defined location for the bulk of the office towers (Scotia Square, Purdy's, TD, Royal Bank) in the blocks from George over the Cogswell Interchange. So for me, that area seems geared towards office tower mixes - the obvious stand out is Maritime Centre.

That being said I think anywhere outside of this area could go either way, but these core blocks I mentioned above (to me) should be restricted to Office or Hotel style development.

[Jstaleness]

I think there will be a good mix. Once Waterside gets underway that will add some new class A. IP could go either way but if the developer isn't going to budge than we'll just have to wait. That whole area is seeing some good residential infill. Spice, hopefully Jazz will be built as well. A little further away but Gottingen is getting good fill too.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

That being said I think anywhere outside of this area could go either way, but these core blocks I mentioned above (to me) should be restricted to Office or Hotel style development.

Why?

[alps]

I was either too young or not born yet to actually have observed this stuff in person, but my impression was that:

• Purdy's I was built mid-80s along with a 4 or 5 storey parking structure
• Purdy's II came later with a few more floors added to the garage
• Summit Place was built in the late 80s and was originally called "Cornwallis Place"

Not really sure where I read any of this stuff, just odds and ends picked up off the internet over the years (or I'm mistaken...can anyone confirm?)

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

Why?

I just see it as the office core (for the most part). I'm only refering to a small portion of the actual core and it seems to me the intention of the cogswell land was primarily to be an expansion of the office tower section of downtown.

You have Purdy's, Cogswell/Barrington/Duke Towers, the CIBC, Royal, TD, BMO Towers and the Hollis tower all in that one small section. The only exception is Maritime centre...so just in my mind, if that's where the predominant amount of office towers were, I'd like to see it focused there. If I were to attempt to quantify it, your looking at probably 5 to 10% of the overall downtown area. So the other 90% could be anything really...

That being said - we've talked about in different threads the possibility of redoing the NSP office space to be lofts, so I'm pretty flexible.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by alps

I was either too young or not born yet to actually have observed this stuff in person, but my impression was that:

• Purdy's I was built mid-80s along with a 4 or 5 storey parking structure
• Purdy's II came later with a few more floors added to the garage
• Summit Place was built in the late 80s and was originally called "Cornwallis Place"

Not really sure where I read any of this stuff, just odds and ends picked up off the internet over the years (or I'm mistaken...can anyone confirm?)

I thought Summit Place was built in the early to mid 90's but I may be wrong on that.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

I thought Summit Place was built in the early to mid 90's but I may be wrong on that.

Summit Place was built for the G7 summit in Halifax which was June 15 to 17, 1995.

[kph06]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Summit Place was built for the G7 summit in Halifax which was June 15 to 17, 1995.

I think it is older than the G7, it was originally named Cornwallis Place, but the name was changed for the summit. Worldy posted this photo showing it under construction in the found photos thread, which appears to be pre-mid 90's.


Source

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Summit Place was built for the G7 summit in Halifax which was June 15 to 17, 1995.

No, it was pre-existing before that as Cornwallis Place - a Ralph Medjuck project. McInnes Cooper law was the main tenant and they had a fairly spectacular main boardroom that had a panoramic harbour view and was of considerable size. It was picked to be the venue for the main G7 sessions and the building was taken over for the event at god-knows what cost. There were several large sections of the office space that were unleased and this made it easy to do. Much of the space was custom-fitted for the G& and then those things were ripped out when the space was eventually leased, though some items remained.

After the event the building was renamed Summit Place. Thank god, or Dan Paul would be whipping up a frenzy to change the original name.

[halifaxboyns]

Ah yes that's right - wow, my memory is getting bad.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I just see it as the office core (for the most part).

It is the office core now because it was designed that way, but why do new office buildings have to be next to the old ones? It's hard to think of advantages of that setup, but I can think of the big drawback: office districts are dead outside of the 9-5 period. They're also inconvenient because they make it harder to live close to your work and they have a very narrow range of retail and services.

I understand segregating uses when you have, say, a factory that might explode that you don't want next to houses. I don't think it's optimal for white collar office uses that seem very compatible with residential.