Winnipeg's Tunnels

[plrh]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

To my knowledge there IS a steam tunnel that runs from Portage and Main all the way down Main and then turns down Alexander and ends where the the substation is on Lily. It could likely be converted.

https://www.winnipeg.ca/MatMgt/Folde...2004&YEAR=2004

Here is a drawing set from a 2004 watermain renewal on Main St from Portage to Disraeli. It should show anything significant underground, including abandoned lines. The tunnel between City Hall and the concert hall is on there. The biggest thing that runs down main is a 6.5' diameter wastewater sewer from 1935. But it's 30' under the road.

A steam tunnel could just be a 6" pressurized line, they wouldn't necessarily build a tunnel for access. And if they did it it would more closely resemble a Ninja Turtle style brick sewer than a U of M style pedestrian tunnel.

Edit- Well I guess I'm wrong, I just realized the P and M concourse isn't shown, but it's technically outside of the work area.

[cllew]

A lot of the former downtown steam lines were bought by Unitel (now Allstream/Zayo) for use as potential fiber optic duct lines when there was a big push for communications deregulation.

As far as I know there are no steam tunnels only steam duct lines between manholes and over the years many have been Abandoned In Place as Allstream/Zayo has no use for them or they are compromised in some way and not worth excavating to remove the problem section.

Usually to AIP the manhole walls are demolished and grout is forced in the ducts to seal them.

[M.C. The MC]

If anybody is interested in the WSO, the best place to convene before and after a concert (well, at least before the world decided to end) is in this tunnel under the Concert Hall. There is a fantastic seating area right next to the staircase that brings you to the ticket booth.

[OverUnder]

Originally Posted by plrh

When I worked for the province I would sometimes take the tunnel from the Provincial Archives to the Norquay, but it isn't public. I think you can get to the Law Courts, Woodsworth and Leg through there too.

I walked that tunnel a couple of times in 2014. I was heading north from the law courts and had no permission to be there, but no one stopped me.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by esquire

I've worked at a couple of places along Main Street over the years and I'm pretty familiar with the surroundings, but I am unaware of any public link from Portage and Main to City Hall. The farthest north you can get on the main skywalk system is to the Grain Exchange Building.

Ah....yeah, I have my terminus confused. Now that I think of it, yes, I should have said something else because if I'd thought it through, I would have known that it most certainly doesn't go to city hall.

[trueviking]

There’s the beginning of a tunnel under the 90’s addition to the Pantages Theatre. It runs in the basement and to the sidewalk edge and has a knock out panel for a future extension to the tunnel connecting to the concert hall. Obviously it never got extended.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by trueviking

There’s the beginning of a tunnel under the 90’s addition to the Pantages Theatre. It runs in the basement and to the sidewalk edge and has a knock out panel for a future extension to the tunnel connecting to the concert hall. Obviously it never got extended.

Maybe it'll be completed as part of the upcoming refurbishment/residential expansion? One can hope.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by cllew

A lot of the former downtown steam lines were bought by Unitel (now Allstream/Zayo) for use as potential fiber optic duct lines when there was a big push for communications deregulation.

As far as I know there are no steam tunnels only steam duct lines between manholes and over the years many have been Abandoned In Place as Allstream/Zayo has no use for them or they are compromised in some way and not worth excavating to remove the problem section.

Usually to AIP the manhole walls are demolished and grout is forced in the ducts to seal them.

theres some man tunnels but mostly ducts yes

bell wound up with most of it

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by plrh

https://www.winnipeg.ca/MatMgt/Folde...2004&YEAR=2004

Here is a drawing set from a 2004 watermain renewal on Main St from Portage to Disraeli. It should show anything significant underground, including abandoned lines. The tunnel between City Hall and the concert hall is on there. The biggest thing that runs down main is a 6.5' diameter wastewater sewer from 1935. But it's 30' under the road.

A steam tunnel could just be a 6" pressurized line, they wouldn't necessarily build a tunnel for access. And if they did it it would more closely resemble a Ninja Turtle style brick sewer than a U of M style pedestrian tunnel.

Edit- Well I guess I'm wrong, I just realized the P and M concourse isn't shown, but it's technically outside of the work area.

those are not complte drawings theres allot more then whats shown in those

[esquire]

Originally Posted by trueviking

There’s the beginning of a tunnel under the 90’s addition to the Pantages Theatre. It runs in the basement and to the sidewalk edge and has a knock out panel for a future extension to the tunnel connecting to the concert hall. Obviously it never got extended.

That's pretty interesting... too bad it was never connected to the Concert Hall, although one can appreciate why the City would decline to spend the money on that connection.

According to Google Maps, it's only a little over 300m along Main Street from Pantages to the Richardson Building. Similar distance along Market and Rorie to the Grain Exchange Building. Building out that small but admittedly somewhat complicated stretch of underground walkway would dramatically expand the footprint of the skywalk/underground system.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

That's pretty interesting... too bad it was never connected to the Concert Hall, although one can appreciate why the City would decline to spend the money on that connection.

According to Google Maps, it's only a little over 300m along Main Street from Pantages to the Richardson Building. Similar distance along Market and Rorie to the Grain Exchange Building. Building out that small but admittedly somewhat complicated stretch of underground walkway would dramatically expand the footprint of the skywalk/underground system.

Well I say forget the walkway tunnels and build a subway through downtown. Just need a two or three lines all converging in the general downtown area and then you don't even need the covered walkways

[plrh]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

those are not complte drawings theres allot more then whats shown in those

I'd believe it. I've seen so many lines hit from bad utility locates. It's hard to blame anyone if it was installed decades ago and there is no record of it. Also those types of plans only ever show the main lines not the service lines. And obviously Winnipeg Square does in fact exist even though it's not shown.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by plrh

I'd believe it. I've seen so many lines hit from bad utility locates. It's hard to blame anyone if it was installed decades ago and there is no record of it. Also those types of plans only ever show the main lines not the service lines. And obviously Winnipeg Square does in fact exist even though it's not shown.

i know in 2011 the cities cad file was missing most of hydros stuff along with allot of mts's stuff downtown

[cllew]

I don't know if Winnipeg is the same way but I was reading a 2017 Bloomberg article about underground utilities in New York City. It said that none of the NYC utilities wants to cooperate in producing a master map/listing of underground structures for "security reasons".

They would rather deal with the cost of dig ins and customer outages.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

I realize I am more pro-skywalk than most around here, but I wish that planned leg from Portage and Main to City Hall had been completed... it would have made reaching the Exchange District even more convenient on cold/rainy days.

The existing Grain Exchange connection makes the Exchange fairly accessible from the existing tunnel networks. It isn't perfect and not an "every building" solution but if the weather is very nasty it can really reduce the amount of outdoor time needed.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by cllew

I don't know if Winnipeg is the same way but I was reading a 2017 Bloomberg article about underground utilities in New York City. It said that none of the NYC utilities wants to cooperate in producing a master map/listing of underground structures for "security reasons".

They would rather deal with the cost of dig ins and customer outages.

utilities have to share here with goverment and other utilities that are registerd as such. just matter if anyones taken time to add older stuff to modern drawings in the digital worldwould imagin its been done since 2011 least hope so

[bomberjet]

As much due diligence and all that regarding utilities. It's a crap shoot.

Hydro didn't know they had a burried high voltage cable on one of my recent high profile projects. It was only found during excavations because there was warning tape in the ground. Wasn't on any of the records they had.

The City also provides utility plans and such. But they basically say do not rely on this info, it is 100% your job to complete due diligence. Because really they have no idea what's going on.

[dam_well]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

As much due diligence and all that regarding utilities. It's a crap shoot.

Hydro didn't know they had a burried high voltage cable on one of my recent high profile projects. It was only found during excavations because there was warning tape in the ground. Wasn't on any of the records they had.

The City also provides utility plans and such. But they basically say do not rely on this info, it is 100% your job to complete due diligence. Because really they have no idea what's going on.

How does that even happen? I can sort of understand the city not knowing where everything is but shouldn't hydro have an idea of how their network works? To be fair they are an amalgamation of different agencies and companies but how do you operate when you don't know where your infrastructure is? That's like the City forgetting about a road or something isn't it?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by dam_well

How does that even happen? I can sort of understand the city not knowing where everything is but shouldn't hydro have an idea of how their network works? To be fair they are an amalgamation of different agencies and companies but how do you operate when you don't know where your infrastructure is? That's like the City forgetting about a road or something isn't it?

Low voltage stuff I understand, simply because there's such a vast network of it.

Major high-voltage transmission? Like, oopsie, we forgot about a 115kV line? That's concerning, especially if it is still in use. Disused stuff that was forgotten about I could see.

Does Manitoba have something like Ontario One Call?

I think the province mandates that all underground utility providers have a central database of stuff, so people won't dig into stuff accidentally.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by wave46

Low voltage stuff I understand, simply because there's such a vast network of it.

Major high-voltage transmission? Like, oopsie, we forgot about a 115kV line? That's concerning, especially if it is still in use. Disused stuff that was forgotten about I could see.

Does Manitoba have something like Ontario One Call?

I think the province mandates that all underground utility providers have a central database of stuff, so people won't dig into stuff accidentally.

we have http://clickbeforeyoudigmb.com/ to do underground clearances but I have been told membership is voluntary so not all underground utilities will be located if you contact that group.

For Bomberjet's project that sounds like what happened when a daycare wanted to build near the Midtown bridge about 10-15 years ago. A 66kv underground line was found running through the property they were looking at. It was one of the last of Winnipeg Hydro major construction projects and I guess the as built's never made it over to Manitoba Hydro or the City's underground structures mapping group.

I see a lot more of the suck trucks potholing at any proposed excavation and not only where they utilities have marked their stuff. I guess doing that is better than finding something the hard way