Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

It is, it's American in origin too. It's like a stage direction.

It is a stage direction from Broadway. Same as "spirit fingers".

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Well, blimey. Funny how cultural myopia works. In all my years I've literally never heard it used anywhere outside of a few references in British TV shows.

Perhaps a lot of the British shows you watch are heavily tied to West End theatre. Of the American shows you watch, they are not so tied to Broadway.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Is "jazz hands" specifically British, or do North Americans use it too?

I recently came across the term in several different British shows and contexts, but hadn't heard it before. Then it showed up in an American context and got me to wondering if we're adopting it or if it's always been a term that's been used here.

I have friends who work in the entertainment industry who live in Toronto and they've used that term for awhile. I remember hearing it first around the year 2000. I think it's a term that has been used in theatre, show biz and musical acts for a long time meaning when someone puts their hands up and wiggles their fingers.

A friend told me of a school in Toronto, I think it was a private school, where the principal did not liking clapping as applause for school productions. The principal thought that clapping was uncivilized and barbaric or something like that. So she actually instructed the parents and others in the audience to show "jazz hands" in appreciation and they could cheer or woo along with it. My friend went to see a school play at that school where his friend's child was it in and he couldn't believe what he was seeing. For awhile, when a bunch of us got together including my friend, we would praise and applaud everything with jazz hands just to be silly after having heard that story.

[Architype]

Jazz hands might be a precursor to dabbing.

[rousseau]

Bianca Andreescu sounds like she has a standard GTA accent, i.e. without the really long A in words like "slams" etc. that you get farther down south in Ontario. And there's no "hoser" in how she talks, yet she still sounds rather distinctively Canadian in a North American context.

What I think is fascinating is that the way she and younger kids in the GTA are speaking shows a development that goes contrary to the received wisdom that the world is homogenizing. Undoubtedly this must have something to do with Toronto now having a stronger sense of being its own centre of gravity.

• Video Link

Contrast Bianca the GTA kid with a local here from the Stratford area who has a more American way of speaking as typified with the longer A in words like "and."

• Video Link

You really can hear the difference between the GTA/Golden Horseshoe and southwestern Ontario. But it's devilishly difficult trying to identify any sort of border between the Golden Horseshoe and southwestern Ontario when it comes to accents. I think maybe you can trace an accent continuum along the QEW and the 401 as they proceed towards Hamilton/St. Catharines and London, respectively.

[esquire]

To me it sounds like she has a hint of an Eastern European accent... I would imagine her parents and close relatives must have fairly distinct Romanian accents which have crept into her manner of speaking a bit. (Of course, if they have standard GTA-Canadian accents then my theory goes out the window)

She definitely doesn't sound American, though. I agree with you there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Contrast Bianca the GTA kid with a local here from the Stratford area who has a more American way of speaking as typified with the longer A in words like "and."

• Video Link

You really can hear the difference between the GTA/Golden Horseshoe and southwestern Ontario. But it's devilishly difficult trying to identify any sort of border between the Golden Horseshoe and southwestern Ontario when it comes to accents. I think maybe you can trace an accent continuum along the QEW and the 401 as they proceed towards Hamilton/St. Catharines and London, respectively.

Even in the first couple of words that softball player said: "a long taaahhhyme". Like an elongated vowel sound. To me "time" is much more clipped when most Canadians say it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

To me it sounds like she has a hint of an Eastern European accent... I would imagine her parents and close relatives must have fairly distinct Romanian accents which have crept into her manner of speaking a bit. (Of course, if they have standard GTA-Canadian accents then my theory goes out the window)
.

Totally agree about the Eastern European accent. I would not mistake her for a purely native English speaker, at least if I spoke to her for any length of time beyond simple transactional stuff in a store or restaurant.

[Acajack]

Though IMO, to the untrained/less attentive ear either of these girls *could* definitely sound American.

[Acajack]

Bianca was born in the GTA, but moved between Canada and Romania during her youth. It's likely her family language was (and still is to some degree) Romanian.

Her coach is also this guy, so she's spent and spends a lot of time in her life with people who don't have native anglo accents:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZTEzEZkIsc

[megadude]

The first time I heard her in an interview during the Rogers Cup I said, yup, GTA accent. GTA accent isn't uniform due to all the different cultures. For most people with it I see it like half their accent is GTA the other half is their ethnic background. So it's not instantly recognizable, but if you're from here then you should be able to pick up on it.

And I should also point out that lots of people here don't have the accent. It's more prevalent in youth and some carry it into their advancing years and some drop it.

For those that have it thicker than her, to me, they sound less sophisticated. Of course, I wouldn't have said that in my younger years.

I worked with a half Canadian, half Greek girl in her 30s that advanced quickly in her career due to being hard working, a go-getter and being attractive. She has an obvious GTA accent and if you just listened to her on the phone for instance, you wouldn't think much of her. But in person she is much more sophisticated than you would think.

And yes, she has an element of EE to her accent as from what I read, she spent some of her youth in Romania as well and grew up hearing it at home of course. I know a couple of people like this, born here but went back EE and then back here and same thing.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Bianca was born in the GTA, but moved between Canada and Romania during her youth. It's likely her family language was (and still is to some degree) Romanian.

Ah OK, then in that case it's 100% a Romanian accent that we're hearing. With two Romanian parents (that is the case, isn't it?) and having spent time living in Romania, I would wager that she speaks Romanian at home or with family in Canada.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by megadude

For those that have it thicker than her, to me, they sound less sophisticated. Of course, I wouldn't have said that in my younger years.

Ha, you sound like a Manhattanite talking about someone with a Brooklyn or Staten Island accent

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by esquire

Ah OK, then in that case it's 100% a Romanian accent that we're hearing. With two Romanian parents (that is the case, isn't it?) and having spent time living in Romania, I would wager that she speaks Romanian at home or with family in Canada.

No, it's definitely a Toronto accent. Without actually knowing where she was from or what her ethnic background is I could 100% place her as being from the GTA.

Even if there is a tinge of Romanian in there, as Megadude described there are commonly regional/ethnic variations on the Toronto accent anyway. An Italian from Woodbridge and a Jamaican from North York and a Chinese guy from Scarborough are bound to sound a little different, but will all still be unmistakably Torontonian.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Bianca Andreescu sounds like she has a standard GTA accent, i.e. without the really long A in words like "slams" etc. that you get farther down south in Ontario. And there's no "hoser" in how she talks, yet she still sounds rather distinctively Canadian in a North American context.

What I think is fascinating is that the way she and younger kids in the GTA are speaking shows a development that goes contrary to the received wisdom that the world is homogenizing. Undoubtedly this must have something to do with Toronto now having a stronger sense of being its own centre of gravity.

• Video Link

Contrast Bianca the GTA kid with a local here from the Stratford area who has a more American way of speaking as typified with the longer A in words like "and."

• Video Link

You really can hear the difference between the GTA/Golden Horseshoe and southwestern Ontario. But it's devilishly difficult trying to identify any sort of border between the Golden Horseshoe and southwestern Ontario when it comes to accents. I think maybe you can trace an accent continuum along the QEW and the 401 as they proceed towards Hamilton/St. Catharines and London, respectively.

I think a big part of what you're hearing is the fact that one of those two has non-English speaking immigrant parents. That, more than anything else, is defining the "GTA accent" (suburbs division). Stratford is also on the edge of "Letterkenny country", no?

[megadude]

When I spent two weeks on the UWS in Manhattan a few years ago I only heard one person with a thick Brooklyn accent and it was fascinating. He was walking after work with gym bag in hand with who I assume were two co-workers to go play ball. They were Wall Street types in their late 20s. I was walking behind them on the sidewalk so I heard everything.

Just listening to that one Brooklyn guy and not seeing him in a suit you would think he was a construction worker until they started talking about the market. It was fascinating to hear.

As for me, I would say I probably have a little bit of an accent when I'm at work. You would assume I'm from the GTA. When I'm with friends or family then it comes out more.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

No, it's definitely a Toronto accent. Without actually knowing where she was from or what her ethnic background is I could 100% place her as being from the GTA.

Even if there is a tinge of Romanian in there, as Megadude described there are commonly regional/ethnic variations on the Toronto accent anyway. An Italian from Woodbridge and a Jamaican from North York and a Chinese guy from Scarborough are bound to sound a little different, but will all still be unmistakably Torontonian.

Most definitely. Those are the exact examples I was thinking of adding in my post.

[megadude]

Of all the celebrities, Drake is the best example. He turns it on and off depending on the audience.

His accent aligns more closely to the Jamaican variation I'd say due to who he would hang out with growing up, but he's half American half Jewish.

[megadude]

At work there's someone in funding from Guyana. She's been here for several years but her accent is basically unchanged.

There's a Director of a dept. from Jamaica, but she has been here much longer. She does not speak with a thick accent. It's definitely a Caribbean accent, and I get the impression she's from upper middle class there, but she still tones it down because I've heard her speak on the phone in the lunch room where she lets it out more.

One of the obvious conclusions to be drawn is that it depends who your peers are and where you are in the hierarchy.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by megadude

At work there's someone in funding from Guyana. She's been here for several years but her accent is basically unchanged.

There's a Director of a dept. from Jamaica, but she has been here much longer. She does not speak with a thick accent. It's definitely a Caribbean accent, and I get the impression she's from upper middle class there, but she still tones it down because I've heard her speak on the phone in the lunch room where she lets it out more.

One of the obvious conclusions to be drawn is that it depends who your peers are and where you are in the hierarchy.

Reminds me of a secretary I once had who was from Newfoundland. Speaking to me in the office, she spoke "Newfoundland". Speaking with family on the phone, she'd revert to "cut it with a knife". Middle-class Jamaicans are bilingual, speaking both "Jamaican" and patois.