World Exchange Cinema Closure

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I had similar experience in Westboro a few years back. Ridiculous parking restrictions and empty streets. No parking meters even to allow you extend your stay. Not enough time to enjoy a meal at a special restaurant, where another table was expressing the exact same concern. I liked the restaurant but I have not gone back because of the parking restrictions. I even complained to the city councillor of the area, who just sluffed me off. So, I told him, I will take my money elsewhere, which is exactly what I did

Women have been representing K ward for the last two elections. You haven't eaten in Westboro in at least eight years becaus you couldn't deal with parking?

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We did pay for parking but it was several blocks away. The cost was not the issue. If you don't go downtown regularly, you don't know all the parking locations. And the street parking with the 1 hour restrictions was entirely empty. It seemed to be designed to discourage people from parking there at all, just like some people in the Glebe would like to keep people from going to Lansdowne. What is parking policy for? To encourage reasonable turnover or to just discourage people from coming into the area, including the neighbouring stores and other businesses. It seems that some people want the quietness of the suburbs while living a block from a busy downtown street.

My friend's reaction was, let's not go downtown again. You just repeat this frustration thousands of times over with other people and you start seeing why downtown is not thriving.

I had similar experience in Westboro a few years back. Ridiculous parking restrictions and empty streets. No parking meters even to allow you extend your stay. Not enough time to enjoy a meal at a special restaurant, where another table was expressing the exact same concern. I liked the restaurant but I have not gone back because of the parking restrictions. I even complained to the city councillor of the area, who just sluffed me off. So, I told him, I will take my money elsewhere, which is exactly what I did.

If you want to design neighbourhoods for local walk in traffic and transit users only, fine, but then don't complain when movie houses and other businesses are dying or won't move in.

If you have so many problems with finding parking, why not just find some other way to get there? I mean, your name is lrt's friend.

I don't think the reason why the movie theatres or stores are closing is because of lack of parking or room for motorists.

[Urbanarchit]

M0nkyman, can we just recommend you books and documentaries to read and watch that you'd be able to learn and use for sitting on council? I don't know what your stances are on things, but one thing I'd like to see introduced is affordable housing in the form of subsidized units in all new multi-unit buildings. I may post the graphic from the book in it, but it's an interesting idea, one that I think Vancouver may be trying?

I personally really enjoyed Vishaan Chakrabarti's book: A Country of Cities: A Manifesto for an Urban America. It's interesting, in some cases thought-provoking, and comes with great ideas and diagrams, such as the one below.

He even highlights why height restrictions are bad for property/ real estate markets as it drives up the price of land and construction, as well as how upzoning can benefit local areas and the tax-base.

He also says some really great, quotable things. One thing that strikes me is, "Communities may choose to be parochial, fighting density in the cloak of Jane Jacobs when in fact it may be Jim Crow that they are channeling."

The image below shows how it's better to distribute highrises throughout and area, instead of clumping them together and separate from other, low- and mid-rise areas.

[teej1984]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I work in a downtown hotel and had guests last night wanting to go to the movies. Asking me:

Them "How can we get to the Rideau Centre Cinema?"
Me "Oh, that one is closed"
Them "Are there any other ones close"
Me "Well there used to be the one at WEP, but that one just closed a couple of days ago too"
Them "So, any others?"
Me "You would have to take a 15min (15/20$ taxi ride one-way) to get to the nearest cinema.
Them "Nevermind -____-"

This is pathetic...

I mean, it's not totally ideal, but don't forget Rainbow Cinemas @ St. Laurent which is maybe a 10-15 minute bus ride from DT... sure the movies aren't first run but it's cheap and easily accessible.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by m0nkyman

Women have been representing K ward for the last two elections. You haven't eaten in Westboro in at least eight years becaus you couldn't deal with parking?

I don't live in that part of the city, so trips there are few and far between but that experience has put me off going back. Having to choke down dinner is not something that I enjoy. Don't get me wrong, I have been back to the area since but not for restaurants. My point is, don't make it more difficult to park than is necessary. As I said, the parking spots were mostly empty at supper time and the parking restrictions didn't end until 7:00 p.m., which I found odd. Yes, it was an early supper, but it followed a late afternoon appointment.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by defishel

If you have so many problems with finding parking, why not just find some other way to get there? I mean, your name is lrt's friend.

I don't think the reason why the movie theatres or stores are closing is because of lack of parking or room for motorists.

Well, there is no LRT from my home to downtown. There will never be convenient LRT form my home to downtown. I don't expect LRT from my home to downtown. So, unfortunately, I have to use a car especially when my friend lives 30 minutes outside of Ottawa. I am not going to spend 1 hour or more during off-peak hours on transit to go to the movies. That is not a reasonable expectation for most people. Just read the comment about the hotel guest who would have needed a taxi to get to a theatre. I am more willing to spend time to get there but there is a limit and don't make it more difficult than necessary. As I said, the streets were empty. That tells me that people are not wanted to come downtown.

I do think that you are naive to think that the business exodus from downtown over the last 40 years does not have something to do with accessibility and parking.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by teej1984

I mean, it's not totally ideal, but don't forget Rainbow Cinemas @ St. Laurent which is maybe a 10-15 minute bus ride from DT... sure the movies aren't first run but it's cheap and easily accessible.

Would you do this if you were staying in a downtown hotel in a strange city and you were completely unfamiliar with the transit system and making a spur of the moment decision to go to the movies? The answer is NO.

[Acajack]

I think the closest cinematic facility to downtown Ottawa at the moment is probably the Cinéplus IMAX OMNIMAX at the Museum of Civlization/History.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't live in that part of the city, so trips there are few and far between but that experience has put me off going back. Having to choke down dinner is not something that I enjoy. Don't get me wrong, I have been back to the area since but not for restaurants. My point is, don't make it more difficult to park than is necessary. As I said, the parking spots were mostly empty at supper time and the parking restrictions didn't end until 7:00 p.m., which I found odd. Yes, it was an early supper, but it followed a late afternoon appointment.

Parking restrictions are never enforced past 5:30 pm. Someone has to go around chalking tires and then come back at a later time to check them. It's not worth the time to for the city to do this in the evening.

Parking restrictions are there to mostly discourage employees from driving and taking up all the street spots and leaving none for customers. I live within walking distance from Richmond Road and everyday my street is filled with cars owned by people working in the stores nearby. I recognize the same cars as they arrive in the morning and leave in the afternoon, and even know where some of the owners work. Although there is 2 hour parking on my street, they can only enforce once a day at most, and very rarely at that. I can tell whenever they do because the cars do the lunchtime shuffle for days after.

[waterloowarrior]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Last+ho...053/story.html

Last hope for World Exchange movie theatre dead as talks fail

BY CARYS MILLS, OTTAWA CITIZEN JANUARY 7, 2014 3:38 PM


OTTAWA — Hopes of keeping a theatre in Ottawa’s downtown World Exchange Plaza are over.

The cinema has been closed since Landmark Cinemas showed their last films there at the end of December. But property manager Bentall Kennedy had hoped negations with a new company could keep Ottawa’s last downtown theatre running.

On Tuesday, vice president Dan Gray said those negotiations are “effectively over now” and “it is unlikely that the parties will be able to reach a deal.”

“In summary, it seems that there is currently too much uncertainty in the local movie business for an operator to make a substantive commitment,” he said in an email.

Since the negotiations are confidential, he said he couldn’t explain what the issue was in this case, or in previous failed negotiations involving an attempt to extend Landmark’s lease.

Landmark took over Empire Theatre’s lease, which expired at the end of last year, earlier in 2013 for the theatre off O’Connor Street.

While Alberta-based Landmark said it was hoping to stay, the city said the building owners would be permitted to have something other than entertainment in that spot of the office complex.

The most recent talks were Kennedy’s last attempt to reach a deal with a theatre company, Gray said, adding the space “will eventually undergo a complete renovation” to include “all the features of a modern funky space.”

The third-floor spot could be used for conferences, meetings, education or tech offices, he said, adding a new tenant could have input on the redesign.

Tom Hutchinson, spokesperson for Rainbow Cinemas, said it wasn’t his company in recent negotiations for the World Exchange spot. But he said he’s saddened by downtown theatres closing up throughout the country.

“It’s happening everywhere where there are downtowns that don’t support Wal-Mart and Target,” he said. “In other words, big boxes rule. The car rules. They’re not interested in having motion-picture theatres in walking distance or on transit lines.”

Last year, Ottawa’s Rideau Centre theatre was also closed by Empire Theatres.

Rainbow did take a look at the World Exchange, Hutchinson said, more than a year ago. But the company passed because it wasn’t feasible.

The Lansdowne Park sports and entertainment development will have a theatre, though who will run it is unclear since the original company with the contract, Empire Theatres, bowed out of the cinema business. Lansdowne is in close enough proximity to the World Exchange that another company would run into limitations on playing new films, Hutchinson said.

“On the one hand, you’ve got the fact that it can’t be a motion-picture theatre showing first-run movies,” Hutchinson said. “And the second thing is a landlord wanting to maximize their rent.”

It’s the same story nationwide, he said. “Generally, the demise of the downtown is extremely regrettable. But there’s not much I can do about it.”

twitter.com/CarysMills

cmills@ottawacitizen.com

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[c_speed3108]

The quote from Rainbow cinemas is interesting.

It sounds to me like the costs downtown are simply becoming too high. Other businesses such as the bookstore on Sussex have had the same complaint.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

The quote from Rainbow cinemas is interesting.

It sounds to me like the costs downtown are simply becoming too high. Other businesses such as the bookstore on Sussex have had the same complaint.

What wasn't the fault of Nicholas Hoare closing because the NCC raised their rent by 73% or something?

[lrt's friend]

It is odd but it looks like my comment is true, that condos are actually pushing retail and entertainment out of downtown. The success of expensive condos is raising the price of building space to the point that retail business is having difficulty being competititive especially in comparison with suburban locations. In a way, this is more alarming than I originally thought. I think this may also relate to a trend in the Byward Market where it is becoming more and more difficult to maintain a good mix of businesses. A case of unintended consequences, but is there a solution?

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is odd but it looks like my comment is true, that condos are actually pushing retail and entertainment out of downtown. The success of expensive condos is raising the price of building space to the point that retail business is having difficulty being competititive especially in comparison with suburban locations. In a way, this is more alarming than I originally thought. I think this may also relate to a trend in the Byward Market where it is becoming more and more difficult to maintain a good mix of businesses. A case of unintended consequences, but is there a solution?

That is true, but wouldn't it be the case that these stores are leaving because they can't afford the rent increase, as they aren't doing well for sales? If they had more people spending money they could pay for the increased rent, right? So wouldn't an increase of people be more important for them to earn more money to pay for the rent?

As of yet, we don't have enough people living in the downtown core, just several projects that are making property values increase without adding a population - yet. If this is the case, when Slater, Tribeca, and a few other condos are down there could be more people and either new stores could come in and afford rent or current ones would have a greater market.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by defishel

That is true, but wouldn't it be the case that these stores are leaving because they can't afford the rent increase, as they aren't doing well for sales? If they had more people spending money they could pay for the increased rent, right? So wouldn't an increase of people be more important for them to earn more money to pay for the rent?

As of yet, we don't have enough people living in the downtown core, just several projects that are making property values increase without adding a population - yet. If this is the case, when Slater, Tribeca, and a few other condos are down there could be more people and either new stores could come in and afford rent or current ones would have a greater market.

Unfortunately, what is the likelihood of ever allocated specialized space for a cinema ever again downtown?

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is odd but it looks like my comment is true, that condos are actually pushing retail and entertainment out of downtown. The success of expensive condos is raising the price of building space to the point that retail business is having difficulty being competititive especially in comparison with suburban locations. In a way, this is more alarming than I originally thought. I think this may also relate to a trend in the Byward Market where it is becoming more and more difficult to maintain a good mix of businesses. A case of unintended consequences, but is there a solution?

How are condos pushing up the rent on a movie theatre space in an office building? Is there a shortage of land for offices as a result of condos? No: office vacancies downtown are up.

Please explain your reasoning.

An aside: Let's not forget that Rideau Centre theatres closed not only because Empire is exiting the movie business, but also that the Centre is planning to expand, including the whole floor the Rideau Centre's theatre is located on.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Unfortunately, what is the likelihood of ever allocated specialized space for a cinema ever again downtown?

It's possible.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by gjhall

How are condos pushing up the rent on a movie theatre space in an office building? Is there a shortage of land for offices as a result of condos? No: office vacancies downtown are up.

Please explain your reasoning.

An aside: Let's not forget that Rideau Centre theatres closed not only because Empire is exiting the movie business, but also that the Centre is planning to expand, including the whole floor the Rideau Centre's theatre is located on.

In a way, you are proving my point. It is only the construction of condos that is booming downtown. Obviously, this is the most profitable use of scarce downtown land at the present time. I am not saying this is a bad thing. You do say that office vacancies are up, which proves that the commercial sector cannot afford downtown space and likewise retail. Yes, the Rideau Centre is expanding but this project has been delayed by a number of years, while there are retail issues pretty well everywhere else downtown especially on Sparks Street as has been discussed at length.

[J.OT13]

We've often raised the question of a possible Scotiabank Theatre type cinema on Rideau, but what if they built one in one of the parking lots on Lyon west of PdV? There is already a huge customer base with residential, hotels and office buildings, it could attract more people to Sparks (a block or two north) and it would have direct access to the main entertainment district of Rideau/Market via the subway. Heck, maybe PdV's Podium replacement could have a such a theatre. Better yet, with office space demand at an all time low, maybe they can re-open the existing theatre now that it has no competition.

[c_speed3108]

I think we have to be careful when considering only vacancy rate. Space is more complex than that. It's not all created equal.

For instance 123 Slater is completely empty, but it's older space.

World Exchange is A class space. I know someone who looked at renting space in there and they seem more willing to keep space vacant and pricey then lower it to get space filled. They don't want to devalue the building.

As the rainbow guy said, it would have to be some sort of second run theatre (fine) but that's hard to do paying premium rent.

------------------------------------

As far as condos go. Most - particularly expensive condos come with parking. It's hardly the car free utopia I think some people are hoping for. Therefore people buying these have easy access services across the city. Ottawa is pretty easy city to get around in car outside rush hour and the odd crappy weather day.

Again the world is competitive. Businesses outside the core for the most part provide free, off street parking to excess. Business can also setup there cheaper and offer more.