Austin | 700 River | 500 Feet | 42 Floors | Complete

[The ATX]

This project will probably be worthy of its own thread when we get more info as soon as Monday. The site plan went into review last Wednesday, so the formal site plan could be added to the site plan application online sometime Monday. The site plan application refers to the project as "River Street Market & Hotel". But the uses are both hotel and residential.

https://abc.austintexas.gov/web/perm...rtyrsn=1121218


Here's the location map from AULCC. The project is referred to as a hotel/apartment building with a parking garage.


ftp://ftp.ci.austin.tx.us/ATD_AULCC/...202019/190502/


Here's the ground floor from AULCC. It looks like the business on Rainey St. may be incorporated into the project.


ftp://ftp.ci.austin.tx.us/ATD_AULCC/...202019/190502/


The project location on Streetview:

[zrx299]

Taking out another chunk of Rainey and replacing it with a sterile "hotel bar" with hotel bar prices. Craft Pride / Via 313 / Javelina

They just can't leave this damn street alone.

[ohhey]

It's difficult to make a good argument for protecting buildings like this from demolition on historical and/or architectural grounds, and the mechanisms for granting such protection in Austin are really weak. I anticipate we will continue to see the piecemeal destruction of older, smaller scale areas of central Austin (warehouse district, Rainey, S. Congress, etc.) until they're essentially gone. Expect more parking podiums, corporate architecture, and the occasional overpriced retail/restaurants. Every year it seems like it's getting harder to draw distinctions between Austin and Dallas or Houston.

I guess the market part of this development is a food hall??? At least that's something.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by zrx299

Taking out another chunk of Rainey and replacing it with a sterile "hotel bar" with hotel bar prices. Craft Pride / Via 313 / Javelina

They just can't leave this damn street alone.

Rainey's on borrowed time as it is, just like the Warehouse District. It's only a matter of how quickly it gets built out.

Not that I'm wishing this on either area, but to me at least, it's clear as a bell -- lots in the CBD (and Rainey) without prior protection (CVC, historic, etc) are destined to be built up. Demand's just too strong.

Regarding this particular tower-to-be . . . I'm really interested to see what their plan for going "above and below the alley" turns out to be. The alley itself is going to become more and more important (and congested) as Rainey and East both get built out. I'd think maintaining throughput would be something the city has a very strong interest in.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Rainey's on borrowed time as it is, just like the Warehouse District. It's only a matter of how quickly it gets built out.

Not that I'm wishing this on either area, but to me at least, it's clear as a bell -- lots in the CBD (and Rainey) without prior protection (CVC, historic, etc) are destined to be built up. Demand's just too strong.

Regarding this particular tower-to-be . . . I'm really interested to see what their plan for going "above and below the alley" turns out to be. The alley itself is going to become more and more important (and congested) as Rainey and East both get built out. I'd think maintaining throughput would be something the city has a very strong interest in.

My issue is that these developers need to do a whole lot more to incorporate entertainment venues. Downtown Austin is losing it's charm, the very charm that made it popular in the first place. The city should come down hard on any development that is proposed in an area that was or has become an entertainment district so that DT stays a place where people live, work and PLAY...

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

My issue is that these developers need to do a whole lot more to incorporate entertainment venues. Downtown Austin is losing it's charm, the very charm that made it popular in the first place. The city should come down hard on any development that is proposed in an area that was or has become an entertainment district so that DT stays a place where people live, work and PLAY...

Your sentiment is appreciated. But how would such an ordinance/zoning requirement be worded or implemented?

[zrx299]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Your sentiment is appreciated. But how would such an ordinance/zoning requirement be worded or implemented?

A city that calls itself the "live music capital of the world" and "keep Austin weird" can, and simply must, do much better at managing growth while protecting and cultivating the very things that made it popular to begin with. There are so many surface lots just begging to get redeveloped in the downtown core, but yet it's somehow trendy to just mow down existing structures instead of creating new hot spots from the ground up. (The area all around the ARCH should be booming with cranes, if not for misguided politics)

This particular project's "annexation" to the Rainey St lot(s) is simply unnecessary. The hotel/residential tower can be built on the lot that fronts East street without any need to cross the alley whatsoever.

I'll withhold any further knee-jerk overreaction until we see more mature plans and renderings, and hope for the best with this spot. Something human-scaled along the lines of a Banger's renovation/expansion would be nice.

[427MM]

Seems in-line with what was originally intended when the area was zoned CBD ~14 years ago. It was the bar scene and its 'temporary' use of the original homes that was an unforeseen turn of events when development occurred slower than originally expected.

[austlar1]

^^^Yep! People on the Austin forum were so excited when Rainey was zoned CBD 14 years ago, and there was little, if any, support on the local forum for retaining the existing housing stock. I was one of the few people who predicted that the modest bungalows might have a shot as neighborhood amenities like corner stores or a coffee house. I never imagined the explosion of night life on the street. Nobody did. I just hoped a few of the houses might survive in some form in order to give the street a bit of character as it was redeveloped.

[zrx299]

Originally Posted by 427MM

Seems in-line with what was originally intended when the area was zoned CBD ~14 years ago. It was the bar scene and its 'temporary' use of the original homes that was an unforeseen turn of events when development occurred slower than originally expected.

That point gets brought up a lot also, and while I appreciate the history lesson, no one can deny that it turned into something pretty unique, especially when compared to peer cities.
You don't need to be a 20-something bar fly to appreciate that it's a net-positive for the city.

Why kill something that was a serendipitous gift?
There could easily be high rise development on the perimeters of the area (East/Red River/Chavez) while keeping the remaining bungalows, or at least making that section of Rainey low-rise.
(In a perfect world, we'd mow down the Millennium, reconnect the alley, and open up additional blocks for high rises that front East Ave which are currently underutilized with that godawful corporate block)

[Sigaven]

Funny that everything that is attracting development downtown is being torn apart by more development.

[StoOgE]

Rainey will continue to have bars on it. It will be fine.

The hipsters already moved East 10+ years ago from when Lustre Pearl was the coolest spot in the city. The South Dallas bros who took over can just go back to West 6th or continue chasing the hipsters further East.

There will be bars/restaurants in Rainey, but I am not going to cry for bars that have been there less than a decade.

I am far far more concerned about the warehouse district which has an actual history as an entertainment district and architecturally interesting buildings that are unique to that part of Austin.

Austin is an interesting city, because I imagine for a good 20-30% of people who live here Rainey has *always* been an entertainment district to them.

But cities change and evolve. Austin is a creative city that has an insane nightlife. The market will meet that demand.

[enragedcamel]

Originally Posted by zrx299

That point gets brought up a lot also, and while I appreciate the history lesson, no one can deny that it turned into something pretty unique, especially when compared to peer cities.
You don't need to be a 20-something bar fly to appreciate that it's a net-positive for the city.

Why kill something that was a serendipitous gift?
There could easily be high rise development on the perimeters of the area (East/Red River/Chavez) while keeping the remaining bungalows, or at least making that section of Rainey low-rise.
(In a perfect world, we'd mow down the Millennium, reconnect the alley, and open up additional blocks for high rises that front East Ave which are currently underutilized with that godawful corporate block)

I don't think any part of downtown should have low-rises, because they cost the city a lot of potential tax revenue, and have a negative impact on housing supply, and therefore affordability. From this perspective alone, one can easily see that it is indeed NOT a "net-positive" for the city.

I understand the perspective with regards to wanting to retain the bits and pieces that make Austin unique. But that's a qualitative and subjective argument. Austin is one of the fastest growing cities in North America, which means that change will come whether we want it or not. The choice we have is not between preserving the perceived-to-be-unique aspects of the city vs. building mundane high-rises in their place. The choice we have is between building mundane high-rises vs. building interesting high-rises that will result in a new, different type of uniqueness and character.

[urbancore]

I understand where dawg is coming from, but honestly, the Austin bar/music scene has always moved around...with the "dirty" sixth exception.

Since my freshman year at UT in '87.....the distinct areas I recall are:

-6th (since Pangaea to the "Big Rip") currently called "dirty 6th", but I'll always just call it 6th Street.

-Red River (I'd guess '88 to now- I remember seeing Will and the Kill (Charlie Sexton's brother) play a show in '88 on Red River, maybe RR was going before then

-the warehouse (I remember going to the Boat House in maybe 90's (I had a lot of gay friends, still do) then the Lizard Lounge, the Underground, then Mezzaluna/Cedar Street blew up the whole district.....so late 80's till now)

-W 6th (kinda started with Mother Eagans and Star Bar in 2000 to now)

-SoCo (kicked off with Ego's in the 90's -for me anyway- and really got popping after the wildly popular "First Thursday" got going...with Hotel San Jose and Jos becoming cool hangouts...and of course Continental wasn't alone anymore....still going strong)

-E 6th (If I recall Eastside Showroom was the spot that REALLY kicked the door wide open in 2008 is ongoing and growing like mad)

-Rainey St (Bridget opened up Lustre Pearl in 2009 that started the Rainey Boom- that was really never supposed to happen)

Those are the 7 distinct areas I remember and still frequent them all.

Who knows where the next wave will go, but I see this as a pattern. But again, nobody misses Liberty Lunch more than me....I get it. Then again, I've seen really cool "organic" districts pop over the years. Can't wait to see where the next one will spring up. One big problem of course is the rent is spectacularly high in the new buildings, and it may take a few years for landlords to get the rent right to attract new bars....some will try and most will fail. But supply and demand will settle that at some point. Landlords won't let them all sit empty for too long.

[The ATX]

It's 46 floors with 232 hotel rooms and 209 residential units. Javelina Bar, Craft Pride and Via 313 Pizza will be taken out.

https://abc.austintexas.gov/attachme...73LwhY0Q%3D%3D

[We vs us]

Wow. That's a big building. Just a few floors smaller than 44 East.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by urbancore

I understand where dawg is coming from, but honestly, the Austin bar/music scene has always moved around...with the "dirty" sixth exception.

Since my freshman year at UT in '87.....the distinct areas I recall are:

-6th (since Pangaea to the "Big Rip") currently called "dirty 6th", but I'll always just call it 6th Street.

-Red River (I'd guess '88 to now- I remember seeing Will and the Kill (Charlie Sexton's brother) play a show in '88 on Red River, maybe RR was going before then

-the warehouse (I remember going to the Boat House in maybe 90's (I had a lot of gay friends, still do) then the Lizard Lounge, the Underground, then Mezzaluna/Cedar Street blew up the whole district.....so late 80's till now)

-W 6th (kinda started with Mother Eagans and Star Bar in 2000 to now)

-SoCo (kicked off with Ego's in the 90's -for me anyway- and really got popping after the wildly popular "First Thursday" got going...with Hotel San Jose and Jos becoming cool hangouts...and of course Continental wasn't alone anymore....still going strong)

-E 6th (If I recall Eastside Showroom was the spot that REALLY kicked the door wide open in 2008 is ongoing and growing like mad)

-Rainey St (Bridget opened up Lustre Pearl in 2009 that started the Rainey Boom- that was really never supposed to happen)

Those are the 7 distinct areas I remember and still frequent them all.

Who knows where the next wave will go, but I see this as a pattern. But again, nobody misses Liberty Lunch more than me....I get it. Then again, I've seen really cool "organic" districts pop over the years. Can't wait to see where the next one will spring up. One big problem of course is the rent is spectacularly high in the new buildings, and it may take a few years for landlords to get the rent right to attract new bars....some will try and most will fail. But supply and demand will settle that at some point. Landlords won't let them all sit empty for too long.

North Loop has come and gone a few times as well.

Then there is NE Central with Carousel, North Burnet has some spots still, and the far far East (Govalle) is the new hot spot.

I think if you've been in Austin long enough you've come to expect change to be the norm.

[GoldenBoot]

They're going after a density bonus to allow a 26:1 FAR (~611,582 SF tower).

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by The ATX

It's 46 floors with 232 hotel rooms and 209 residential units. Javelina Bar, Craft Pride and Via 313 Pizza will be taken out.

https://abc.austintexas.gov/attachme...73LwhY0Q%3D%3D

Via 313 will be fine being that it's a food truck. I hope Craft Pride can manage to find a new location, I do really like that place. Javelina is nice, but it's not all that different than some other places already on Rainey.

[zrx299]

My biggest complaint is reaching across the alley to take out the Rainey bars is completely unnecessary.

However, if they're planning to redevelop it into something fun and human-scaled, like the Bangers remodel, then I'd be ok with it.

If it ends up being some half-ass attempt at ground floor retail as part of a bulls*** massive parking podium, then its nothing more than a giant greedy middle finger to everyone who likes the neighborhood.