Jericho Lands | 49fl | Proposed

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems like dumping money into transit is pretty across the boards the accepted mantra. If anything they'll probably be more pro development though maybe more market based. I mean if you believe it will happen or not is another question.

https://www.vicnews.com/national-new...-stick-1717808

This is a big of an odd one though seeing how technically the subway extension is inside Vancouver, but run for the whole Metro... if Vancouver boosts its numbers but the rest of the region falls behind how does only Vancouver get transit funding under that model? Or would they just get sewer / water dollars and told to pound sand and get their neighbours in line to get transit funding?

[GenWhy?]

Would be wild to think an area plan gets reduced in density (which is similar to the West End) because it doesn't have a dedicated subway stop.

[chowhou]

For those concerned about the Jericho development depending on the UBCx, bear in mind that there's nothing stopping Translink/Metro Vancouver from adding another stage to the Millennium Line and terminating at Jericho "temporarily" (along with constructing Alma and Macdonald stations).

[mcj]

Originally Posted by goodcitywhenfinished

UBC SkyTrain business case will be finished this December. If all goes well, RFQs for preliminary design could be issued by the end of 2025.

If I were the Province I would be pushing for federal commitment by 2025 the latest. I am not sure that a Poilievre government will be funding much transit at all.

The mayors council/Translink wants the province/feds to commit to their Access for Everyone Plan by April 2024. With our provincial election coming up later this year I would expect it to be approved, among possibly some other election promises.

I would agree that a PP government won't be funding transit as much as Trudeau has, hopefully they'll respect commitments already made, but I could see them coming back and tinkering things which could lead to delays.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by chowhou

For those concerned about the Jericho development depending on the UBCx, bear in mind that there's nothing stopping Translink/Metro Vancouver from adding another stage to the Millennium Line and terminating at Jericho "temporarily" (along with constructing Alma and Macdonald stations).

Seems doubtful they would split up the line construction and all the added cost to do it in two stages.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems doubtful they would split up the line construction and all the added cost to do it in two stages.

Might I remind you of the current Broadway extension?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Jericho doesn't have a bus loop though (which is basically a prerequisite for truncating the 99 there).

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Jericho doesn't have a bus loop though (which is basically a prerequisite for truncating the 99 there).

Alma is already a Translink bus terminus though.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Alma is already a Translink bus terminus though.

Only for the 9, which loops around the block and heads back east. It has a frequency of seven minutes at best.

The 99 can come up to every three minutes - can the block handle all those artics, especially with the logjam at 10th/Alma/Broadway? And don't forget all the Jericho-UBC passengers that may consider driving instead.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Might I remind you of the current Broadway extension?

Seems more likely they'll single track a tunnel into UBC to save money.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems more likely they'll single track a tunnel into UBC to save money.

Now hold on, let's take a look at that Jericho terminus again...

[madog222]

Why would the extension need to be expedited to Jericho in order to be ready for the first phase or two of this development? UBC will have exponentially more demand than from Jericho for quite a while.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by madog222

Why would the extension need to be expedited to Jericho in order to be ready for the first phase or two of this development? UBC will have exponentially more demand than from Jericho for quite a while.

Everyone is going off of the current phasing, which is contingent on the UBCx, but you're right that the extension doesn't need to be ready for this to start. They could easily re-order the phasing if the UBCx ends up being delayed by a change of government.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by mcj

Everyone is going off of the current phasing, which is contingent on the UBCx, but you're right that the extension doesn't need to be ready for this to start. They could easily re-order the phasing if the UBCx ends up being delayed by a change of government.

I thought it's more that they are planning the first phase(s) to be out of the way of the Skytrain construction but can change that if UBCx isn't happening yet.

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's all in the article

Phasing

It has nothing to do with getting residents in place to justify the station, and everything to do with the use of the site to allow the tunnel to Arbutus (and maybe also to UBC) to be built. Phase 1 to the west can apparently proceed safely without being impacted by SkyTrain construction.

"The City notes, however, that if the delivery of the Jericho Lands Station occurs later than the completion of Phase One, or a decision is made to not go through with the UBC Extension, the City will review the policy statement and the phasing plan as currently outlined could be adjusted".

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Force municipalities to boost housing construction. Such a naive fool. You can require municipalities to rezone for more density, etc. You cannot require them to boost construction which is market dependent. Are municipalities going to force developers to build even if current market conditions make it unfeasible and unprofitable? Embarrassing

While I appreciate what you are saying and it certainly has some truth to it, we are in a housing crisis. There will be demand for years to come and the cities saying they can't do it is getting old. The cities have had decades to make such changes and have never done it because municipal city politicians are too afraid of losing their next election and to hell with the people who need a place to live. Such a move would force cities to vastly expediate building permits. Canada has the fewest homes per-capita in the G7 and it take longer to get a residential permit in Canada than in any OECD country.........patently absurd.

If a developer states that they cannot build developments and make a profit then it may force the cities to reduce their fees/permit costs. Right now Vancouver's fees are beyond bizarre and beyond reason. One third of the cost of your house shouldn't go to fees especially in a city as hyper expensive as Vancouver. That could also have the consequence of the city forcing up its ultra-low residential tax rates which benefit the well off and usually older population. Shifting the tax burden to the older millionaire home owners from the young who are trying to start a life is nothing but good news. Higher municipal taxes also help reduce money laundering and wild speculation as the cost of their housing "investments" goes up.

PP's plan is a radical one but it's one that must be done and rest assured the cities will be able to get it done if hardcore money is on the line. This is the kick in the ass that our cities both need and deserve.

[madog222]

Nice try but this isn't a politics thread.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Only for the 9, which loops around the block and heads back east. It has a frequency of seven minutes at best.

The 99 can come up to every three minutes - can the block handle all those artics, especially with the logjam at 10th/Alma/Broadway? And don't forget all the Jericho-UBC passengers that may consider driving instead.

The 99 wouldn't need to maintain current service levels, in fact it won't even need to once the Broadway Extension is completed. Five minute headways would surely be more than enough once the Broadway Corridor is served by the Millennium Line (Reminder that half of westbound 99 riders get off before Arbutus). Regardless, the block already basically handles the 99 at current frequency levels anyway considering that the 99 has to make the turn back and forth onto Dunbar.

For Jericho-UBC passengers that would want to head to UBC, the 84 is a very appealing option currently and has a stop less than 200m from where the Jericho-UBC Millennium Line station is supposed to be.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

The 99 wouldn't need to maintain current service levels, in fact it won't even need to once the Broadway Extension is completed. Five minute headways would surely be more than enough once the Broadway Corridor is served by the Millennium Line (Reminder that half of westbound 99 riders get off before Arbutus). Regardless, the block already basically handles the 99 at current frequency levels anyway considering that the 99 has to make the turn back and forth onto Dunbar.

For Jericho-UBC passengers that would want to head to UBC, the 84 is a very appealing option currently and has a stop less than 200m from where the Jericho-UBC Millennium Line station is supposed to be.

It's a truncated line though. 50% total passengers divided by 50% total buses (because it's the same rate of buses per km, but along half the km) means roughly the same level of crowding. Either way, ~28k passengers' worth of foot traffic adding to the Alma chokepoint is nothing to sneeze at... if they reroute the B-Line straight ahead from 8th and Discovery to Alma then loop around Dunbar, then maybe.

Sure, if they increase the frequency on 4th. The 99 is 3-5 minutes all day, but the 84 comes every 10 minutes at best and drops to 20 minutes at night.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Would be wild to think an area plan gets reduced in density (which is similar to the West End) because it doesn't have a dedicated subway stop.

Jericho and the West End are apples and oranges. The West End's abnormal mode share is the high walking rates (47% compared to 27% Vancouver-wide). The neighbourhood transit rate is essentially at the city-wide average (19% compared to 18%).

I don't see many people in Jericho commuting by walking, at least until all the commercial, retail, and industrial uses in the neighborhood are completed. And even then, I imagine most residents will need to commute to Broadway or downtown, with a healthy share heading to UBC.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

It's a truncated line though. 50% total passengers divided by 50% total buses (because it's the same rate of buses per km, but along half the km) means roughly the same level of crowding. Either way, ~28k passengers' worth of foot traffic adding to the Alma chokepoint is nothing to sneeze at... if they reroute the B-Line straight ahead from 8th and Discovery to Alma then loop around Dunbar, then maybe.

Sure, if they increase the frequency on 4th. The 99 is 3-5 minutes all day, but the 84 comes every 10 minutes at best and drops to 20 minutes at night.

I think you're playing a bit hard and fast with the math; For your crowding math it should be 50% passengers divided by 50% total busses, but then multiplied by 50% distance travelled meaning that if they terminate at Arbutus and halve the number of busses, the 99 should be at half its current peak crowding.

Doesn't it kind of seem wrong that if busses were coming just as often as before but only travelling between Arbutus and UBC they'd be just as crowded as the busses at Commercial Broadway today?