Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I suspect the PAX is crush load capacity (like what you see on Canada Day). On a typical day it wouldn't get that full as most people would just wait for the next train.

The capacity is also determined by the size of the average person. On a somewhat related note, I read somewhere that there is talk of decreasing the capacity of lifeboats on cruise ships as the size of the average person today is larger than it was when the standard was created.

I highly doubt that the Confederation Line is being fully designed with Canada Day in mind.

Given the fogginess of opening day, I would bet that it will not be open until after July 1, 2018. No sense in embarrassing the 'experts' and city officials.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Reminds me of the IGA in Montreal that was told to have a green roof, so they planted vegetables and sell the produce in-store. They even have beehives and sell the honey. Can't get any fresher and transportation costs are nil.

Can you imagine trying to get that approved in Analville, Ontario?

[ars]

Having LRT come out to Moodie in the middle of nowhere and NOT having a park and ride is one of the stupidest things I've heard yet. Who was the genius that gave the go ahead for that?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I highly doubt that the Confederation Line is being fully designed with Canada Day in mind.

I'm not suggesting it is designed for Canada Day. I am just saying it is one of the only days that the trains will fill to crush capacity. I don't think people here would accept "Train Pushers" on their daily commute like in Japan.

• Video Link

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by ars

Having LRT come out to Moodie in the middle of nowhere and NOT having a park and ride is one of the stupidest things I've heard yet. Who was the genius that gave the go ahead for that?

Then again, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a parking garage that will only be used for 5-10 years and will then be torn down because it is no longer needed is also rather stupid.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by ars

Having LRT come out to Moodie in the middle of nowhere and NOT having a park and ride is one of the stupidest things I've heard yet. Who was the genius that gave the go ahead for that?

1) There is not enough room
2) Primary users are DND and Abbott employees and they don't need it
3) The station is there only because LMSF goes in nearby in the first place. Riders from Kanata are expected to use P&R in Kanata.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

1) There is not enough room
2) Primary users are DND and Abbott employees and they don't need it
3) The station is there only because LMSF goes in nearby in the first place. Riders from Kanata are expected to use P&R in Kanata.

The logical terminus for the next phase should be Bayshore or Eagleson, not in the middle of nowhere.

We could also argue that a major bus transfer station at Moodie is also a waste. A Park n Ride lot would likely be more useful in the longer term than a bus station.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Then again, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a parking garage that will only be used for 5-10 years and will then be torn down because it is no longer needed is also rather stupid.

Millions. The throwaway costs are enormous on a P&R garage that will become obsolete a fraction of the way into its lifecycle.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The logical terminus for the next phase should be Bayshore or Eagleson, not in the middle of nowhere.

Agreed; however, it was going to be very expensive to build a transfer station at Bayshore large enough for an LRT terminus (the current station is too small to act as a terminus as the bus dwell times will be longer). The extension to Moodie was going to be as cheap if not cheaper and will save money on the Kanata extension.

An extension to Eagleson is likely beyond the budget of Stage 2 (even moving the station west of Moodie Dr is likely beyond the budget).

We could also argue that a major bus transfer station at Moodie is also a waste. A Park n Ride lot would likely be more useful in the longer term than a bus station.

The same thing could also be said about the transfer stations at Tunnies Pasture and Blair, but we can't expect the entire network to be built at once so temporary transfer stations need to be built. For the Moodie station, there is enough land to build the transfer station, but a Park and Ride would require a multi-story parking garage to be built. That is much more expensive than simply paving some bus bays on land they can borrow for free. Once the line is extended to Kanata, the bus bays could be reverted back to green space.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Why not grow corn there? Suburbanites could then buy freshly picked corn at the LRT station on their way home from work.

Reminds me of the IGA in Montreal that was told to have a green roof, so they planted vegetables and sell the produce in-store. They even have beehives and sell the honey. Can't get any fresher and transportation costs are nil.


Montreal IGA Says It's 1st Supermarket In Canada To Sell Produce Grown On Roof

Wow that's awesome about the IGA, especially as they wrote their name with the produce!

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

..........

The capacity is also determined by the size of the average person. On a somewhat related note, I read somewhere that there is talk of decreasing the capacity of lifeboats on cruise ships as the size of the average person today is larger than it was when the standard was created.

Good Day.....

yep....similar discussion as for North American automobile seats .vs. those in European or Asian cars (N.A. seats are way larger in 'accommodation', and I definitely prefer the hip-hugger fit seats of Asian), and same discussion as for aircraft seats (smaller and smaller seats for larger and larger butts) to the point that if I ever do take an aircraft ever again, it will never be in cattle class again, as I (like that poor lady in a recent newspaper article experienced) cannot and will not endure seat wars ever again, for both my sanity and health. Aside, yes I do also experience claustrophobic attacks on occasional instances even in buses when at crush load, which leads me to either not get on and wait (even, and especially, in rain), or (if already on when it loads up) get off. Hence I never even think of going into downtown on Canada Day. Ugh! And again yes, I used transit every day while working, and specifically arranged my hours to travel just at the beginning of rush hours, fortunately.

[rocketphish]

Moodie LRT station location irks Crystal Beach residents

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 5, 2017 | Last Updated: September 5, 2017 6:29 PM EDT



The closest community to the future LRT station at Moodie Drive would rather see the stop built farther away from its residents.

It’s unlikely the city will budge on the proposed location at the northeast corner of Highway 417 and Moodie Drive, but the Crystal Beach/Lakeview community is urging council members to consider building the station on the west side of Moodie Drive instead.

The finance and economic development committee on Tuesday heard from members of the community association who said most residents don’t want the LRT station to negatively affect trails and wildlife areas in the green space off Corkstown Road. They also fear construction would exacerbate flooding along the pathways.

The root of the controversy was best summed up by Bay Coun. Mark Taylor, who observed that the area is “where civilization meets wilderness.”

Peggy McGillivray, president of the community association, showed the committee pictures of the naturalized area under threat by the city’s plan to make a Moodie bus-rapid transit station suitable for LRT in 2023.

“They want to save what is there for posterity,” McGillivray said of the residents in her community who oppose the proposed station location.

Lynn Hart, who lives near Carling Avenue and Corkstown Road, wants the city to forget about building a station at Moodie Drive altogether and find a way to push trains into Kanata at a faster pace.

Hart is collecting signatures on a petition against the Moodie station location.

“We are opposed and we are being ignored,” Hart said.

It’s unusual for the city to hear criticisms over a rapid transit station being built close to a neighbourhood, although in this case the Moodie station would still be a half-kilometre from the nearest homes.

The city likes the idea of building an LRT station there because the Department of National Defence is moving into the old Nortel complex, which is about one kilometre north. The vision is thousands of defence workers taking trains to Moodie station before transferring to buses for the rest of the trip.

Mayor Jim Watson acknowledged that DND’s relocation is dragging but he believes Moodie Drive the right spot for the Stage 2 LRT terminus.

“My frustration, I think a lot of people’s frustration, is this is taking a long time,” Watson said. “We know they’ve spent tens of millions of dollars fixing up the old Nortel site for DND, so employees are coming. When they’re coming is not known at this point, but we definitely need a station there.”

The city will eventually extend LRT past Moodie Drive to Kanata. It’s on the books to happen after 2031, unless council finds a way of advancing the project in the next version of the transportation master plan, tentatively in the works for 2019.

It’s worth noting that other communities have succeeded in altering parts of the Stage 2 plan. Most notably, the Unitarian House convinced the city to shift the LRT alignment west of Westboro to avoid cutting through the Unitarian property.

But with Moodie, the city would be hard-pressed to find a good enough reason to locate a rapid-transit station farther away from a potential built-in ridership. Locating the station on the west side of Moodie Drive would require people to cross the busy road if they’re coming from the Crystal Beach neighbourhood. Plus, a chunk of Wesley Clover Parks could be required for a station.

Chris Swail, the city’s head of O-Train planning, said staff will work to design a station east of Moodie Drive that has a minimal impact to the surrounding land.

The Crystal Beach/Lakeview community has already won one battle when it comes to the city’s Moodie LRT plans, convincing the city to spend up to $15 million more to locate a light maintenance and storage facility on a narrow strip of land west of Moodie Drive, rather than on the western edge of the community.

Opponents of the proposed station location wanted the committee to defer a decision, but the mayor and councillors on unanimously approved the updated Stage 2 blueprint to include the updated maintenance facility site west of Moodie Drive and the station east of Moodie Drive. Council will vote Sept. 13.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...each-residents

[zzptichka]

I hope CA is playing hard ball with the city to get a better deal (better connectivity, landscaping, plan for buses, etc) and are not really against the station.
If planners cave in and they manage to move it West because some old NIMBYs who will be dead by the time it's finished voted so in some bullshit survey, I will completely lose all hope in this city.

[Marshsparrow]

given the current status of the construction - this station ain't movin! Find another battle Crystal Bay!

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

given the current status of the construction - this station ain't movin! Find another battle Crystal Bay!

The current construction is for the Transitway extension, not the LRT, so that isn't a factor.

[ars]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The logical terminus for the next phase should be Bayshore or Eagleson, not in the middle of nowhere.

We could also argue that a major bus transfer station at Moodie is also a waste. A Park n Ride lot would likely be more useful in the longer term than a bus station.

Exactly

The Moodie station makes no sense, especially with no P&R, and is really not serving anyone. They're planning on building it to appease DnD employees, yet it's too far from the DnD campus and employees will either have to take a bus transfer or do a ton of walking(not really feasible or enjoyable in the middle of January). Of course Kanata residents could make use of it but anyone looking for a bus-free option for public transit is out of luck because there won't be any park and ride.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by ars

They're planning on building it to appease DnD employees, yet it's too far from the DnD campus and employees will either have to take a bus transfer or do a ton of walking(not really feasible or enjoyable in the middle of January).

The "better serving DnD" is political spin. Everyone knows it won't do that and is actually only about saving money.

As for any idea of moving the station closer to DND won't be terribly helpful. The campus is surprisingly large (they were at least 3 bus stops on the campus back when Nortel occupied it) and unless they run the line through the middle of campus (basically under Lab 5), they will still need a bus to help those get to the other end of campus. That routing would be a big detour for those from Kanata though and DnD may not want a train through the middle of their campus.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by ars

Exactly

The Moodie station makes no sense, especially with no P&R, and is really not serving anyone. They're planning on building it to appease DnD employees, yet it's too far from the DnD campus and employees will either have to take a bus transfer or do a ton of walking(not really feasible or enjoyable in the middle of January). Of course Kanata residents could make use of it but anyone looking for a bus-free option for public transit is out of luck because there won't be any park and ride.

Light Maintenance and Storage Facility. Ever heard of it?

[rocketphish]

You tell 'em, Jimbo!

Moodie LRT station remains unchanged despite pushback
The city’s finance committee heard from residents concerned that the station will wipe out ecologically significant land.

By: Kieran Delamont, Metro
Published on Tue Sep 05 2017

The city’s finance committee received an update on Tuesday regarding the plan to extend the Confederation LRT line to Moodie Drive and heard from residents who continue to push back against early plans for where the station will be located.

Several residents from the Crystal Beach Lakeview Community Association (CBLCA) spoke out against the proposed LRT station, which the city is currently proposing be located just east of Moodie Drive, raising concerns about the ecological impact that the station would have on that side of the road.

“Thus far, we have not seen signs of your commitment to protected environmental corridors,” said Ian McConnachie, chair of the CBLCA transportation committee. Their association was asking that receipt of the report be delayed until an environmental assessment could be done, weighing the merits of moving the station to the other side of Moodie Drive.

Residents are concerned that the station will result in a loss of ecologically valuable land. “This is a cherished part of our community,” said Coun. Mark Taylor. “It’s really where civilization starts to meet wilderness.”

Mayor Jim Watson said that they aren’t planning on moving the station further away from the community, which might deter people from taking transit. “I think anyone who is doing any transportation planning recognizes the closer you have the station to the people, the greater use its going to get,” he said. “That’s just common sense.”

“This will encourage more people to take transit. If you offer more stops, more stations closer to where people live — that’s the whole point of transit.”

Watson also pointed out that concessions had already been made regarding a storage and maintenance facility on the site. The city is going to be spending $10 to $15 million more to tuck a storage facility in a narrow corridor between the westbound 417 and Corkstown Road, largely to address resident concerns that the storage facility would be too close to the community.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa/...-pushback.html

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Mayor Jim Watson said that they aren’t planning on moving the station further away from the community, which might deter people from taking transit. “I think anyone who is doing any transportation planning recognizes the closer you have the station to the people, the greater use its going to get,” he said. “That’s just common sense.”

“This will encourage more people to take transit. If you offer more stops, more stations closer to where people live — that’s the whole point of transit.”

I will bear this comment in mind (a) the next 400 times the city of Ottawa blows off any suggestion of building urban transit in, you know, urban areas, and (b) when the city of Ottawa starts removing dozens of bus stops on Bank, Rideau, Montreal, Somerset-Wellington-Richmond, etc., in the name of "service improvements".

#thewholepointoftransit