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  #3181  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2022, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
Screw that. My PQ leader should only speak joual.
Well, Pauline Marois also spoke French...and nothing else.
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  #3182  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2022, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
I wasn't sure that I wanted to vote for the CAQ, but in my district I had no choice this time to go ''strategic'' in Charlesbourg to block the Parti des Clown du Québec (PCQ)
The PQ?

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  #3183  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2022, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
This is only tangentially related but likely fits into the general theme of the thread. Just got back from a hurricane wedding in NB, but flew in and out of Halifax as I found extremely cheap fares on Flair airlines. On the way back we flew in a brand new 737-MAX and I noticed that all of the warning labels were in English and... Portuguese!
Portuguese would make sense if they were Embraer, which is from Brazil.
I think Embraer loosely translates into "cheaper than Bombardier"
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  #3184  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2022, 5:38 PM
gunnar777 gunnar777 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Fun fact: Parti Québécois leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon speaks French, English, Spanish, Danish and Swedish.
He studied in Lund, but in an English course with other English speakers, in a society where everyone speaks near-perfect English.

Swedish and Danish are fairly simple for an English-speaker, with Danish having the tougher, almost "garbled" pronunciation, but I doubt he speaks more than a few sentences in either language. I took intensive Danish for several months while I lived in Denmark, but like any language it takes years of living amongst the locals to really speak the language.

I also kind of doubt he really speaks much of these languages, based on these videos, where he just says a few simple things and can't really respond clearly, or is scripted: https://twitter.com/f_carabin/status...87970916438016
https://twitter.com/PaulPlamondon/st...98450264539136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni_HHBa75DI

Hi English is great, though. His French is just so-so
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  #3185  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2022, 3:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnar777 View Post
He studied in Lund, but in an English course with other English speakers, in a society where everyone speaks near-perfect English.

Swedish and Danish are fairly simple for an English-speaker, with Danish having the tougher, almost "garbled" pronunciation, but I doubt he speaks more than a few sentences in either language. I took intensive Danish for several months while I lived in Denmark, but like any language it takes years of living amongst the locals to really speak the language.

I also kind of doubt he really speaks much of these languages, based on these videos, where he just says a few simple things and can't really respond clearly, or is scripted: https://twitter.com/f_carabin/status...87970916438016
https://twitter.com/PaulPlamondon/st...98450264539136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni_HHBa75DI

Hi English is great, though. His French is just so-so
It could also be that as a PQ sympathizer even back then, he knew that even if it's very easy to get by in English in a place, it's still disrespectful to not make an effort to learn the local language.

And even just expecting people to learn the sentences that allow one to get by in daily life in French is still controversial in Québec, at least among some.
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  #3186  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2022, 5:45 PM
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One party at ~40%, the four other ones at 15% each. Which party will be the Opposition is “too close to call”.

And, as usual, the “40% party” firmly promised to abolish FPTP if they ever took power, a promise that they conveniently forgot as soon as FPTP switched from working powerfully against them to working powerfully in their favor

Then we wonder why people don’t bother voting.

For the record, I’m not voting this year. I’m taking George Carlin’s advice. So in the next four years, I can defend myself with the moral high ground “I have had NOTHING to do with this mess!”
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  #3187  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 3:40 AM
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Indications are that the CAQ will come in lower than was being predicted just a week or two ago.

I think the Libs may hold on to more of their Montreal sests than people expected, and may keep Hull too.

I think they may still take a hit in Laval and lose some to the CAQ.
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  #3188  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
One party at ~40%, the four other ones at 15% each. Which party will be the Opposition is “too close to call”.

And, as usual, the “40% party” firmly promised to abolish FPTP if they ever took power, a promise that they conveniently forgot as soon as FPTP switched from working powerfully against them to working powerfully in their favor

Then we wonder why people don’t bother voting.

For the record, I’m not voting this year. I’m taking George Carlin’s advice. So in the next four years, I can defend myself with the moral high ground “I have had NOTHING to do with this mess!”
Vote, even it's just so you can exercise your right, unlike the many millions on this planet like the 100 Million or whatever in Russia that don't have a choice.
We are blessed to be living in a Democracy. I'm made aware by Russian friends every day.
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  #3189  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 11:38 AM
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Final poll by Léger, Quebec's best pollster, shows the CAQ has arrested its decline and may have ticked up by a point.

So the CAQ could end up with the same % as 2018, but with more seats as the opposition vote is more divided among more parties.

(In 2018 the Libs were at 25%, whereas now they are at 17%.)
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  #3190  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 2:27 PM
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interesting Ekos poll out this morning PCQ just 2 points back of the CAQ in Quebec city 31 vs 33 %. If they can consolidate their vote there and in the Beauce where they are polling well they might actually win some seats.

https://www.ekospolitics.com/wp-cont...er-26-2022.pdf
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  #3191  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 3:30 PM
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Interesting take on Legault from the G&M. It largely vibes on what has been discussed here IMO, but I am curious as to how accurate the newspaper gets it.

G&M take on Legault
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  #3192  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 6:44 PM
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Fair assessment, though the author is exaggerating the change of heart in the switch from “pro-business” to “nationalist”. Legault was always the latter, to a degree, throughout his life.

You just don’t find in Quebec the peak of fully free, fully liberal pro-business-ism you find in Anglo-North-America. For an obvious reason: the optimal economic scenario eliminates us, so even the most pro-business among us limit themselves to “as pro-business as possible, AND we survive”, which, seen from an Anglo view, isn’t really all that pro-business.

In the Anglo sense, François Legault was never fully pro-business.
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  #3193  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 6:52 PM
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Three-way races in a bunch of ridings. I’d like to see Duhaime and PSPP elected in their ridings. PCQ getting a few seats would be nice.

The electoral system is really completely distorting the mapping of the popular vote onto the composition of the Parliament. It works okay with two major parties, but with five, it does not.

Problem is, the only ones who could do something about this, have an incredibly strong incentive not to.
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  #3194  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
Vote, even it's just so you can exercise your right, unlike the many millions on this planet like the 100 Million or whatever in Russia that don't have a choice.
We are blessed to be living in a Democracy. I'm made aware by Russian friends every day.
The way I see it, the important part is to exercise my right to be on the electoral list, which I am. Then the message I’m contributing to send is “fuck this shit, voting is not worth my time”.

I expect the participation rate to be historically low this time, and I will have contributed to that success

Anyway, that ship has sailed for me, I’ll be in Montreal tomorrow (and busy) and I’m certainly not driving the round trip to Becancour just to wait in a line.

My gf is also not voting (I believe she’s registered in Sherbrooke, again that would be a disproportionate round trip; it would already make more sense to donate the cost of the gas I’d burn to a political party, than to go vote.)
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  #3195  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 7:10 PM
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where I live it takes less time to vote than it does to get a coffee in the drive-thru line of Tim Hortons
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  #3196  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 7:14 PM
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… like the 100 Million or whatever in Russia that don't have a choice.

We are blessed to be living in a Democracy. I'm made aware by Russian friends every day.
The irony is, Legault is even more firmly in the saddle for the next four years than Putin, and 60%+ of the voters are powerless to do anything about that (I definitely don’t see Legault conveniently falling from a window during his second term )
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  #3197  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wigs View Post
where I live it takes less time to vote than it does to get a coffee in the drive-thru line of Tim Hortons
Unlike me, you’re likely in your riding on e-day

And it’s not news that Tim Hortons’ service speed is absolutely horrible
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  #3198  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2022, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by thurmas View Post
interesting Ekos poll out this morning PCQ just 2 points back of the CAQ in Quebec city 31 vs 33 %. If they can consolidate their vote there and in the Beauce where they are polling well they might actually win some seats.

https://www.ekospolitics.com/wp-cont...er-26-2022.pdf
Most predictions show the PCQ not winning any seats but if they do win seats it most likely will be Beauce-Nord, Beauce-Sud along with where the leader Duhaime is running in Chauveau.

It will be interesting to see if the polls have over or underestimated PCQ support and how concentrated the support is. Sometimes there are big last-minutes swings in support in parts of Quebec so we will have to wait until tomorrow and see. The PCQ doesn't have it easy because the CAQ is fairly conservative by Quebec standards. If there was no CAQ then I'd say PCQ for sure in those ridings.

I'll will be watching the ridings next door to my region with interest. Abitibi-Ouest used to be a PQ super stronghold but voted CAQ last time by a very slim margin over the PQ canadidate and should go CAQ again. Rouyn-Noranda-Témiscamingue used to flip between the PQ and PLQ but went QS last time in a very close race with the PQ candidate. Polls are showing that it will go CAQ this time and that QS MNA Émilise Lessard-Therrien will be replaced by Daniel Bernard of the CAQ.
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  #3199  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2022, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It could also be that as a PQ sympathizer even back then, he knew that even if it's very easy to get by in English in a place, it's still disrespectful to not make an effort to learn the local language.

And even just expecting people to learn the sentences that allow one to get by in daily life in French is still controversial in Québec, at least among some.
That's a good point, although everyone in my cohort took the same intensive Danish courses. Thus I suppose we all had the same level of respect for Danish that the Parti Québécois would expect.
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  #3200  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2022, 2:58 AM
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Typically 'wokist' and lecturing article in the New York Times about the Québec election. In a nutshell, Legault is a racist who has transformed Québec nationalism from a left-leaning movement of national liberation that identified with other similar movements of national liberation in the global South, into a bigoted form of nationalism afraid of immigrants and change.

They went to L'Assomption, north of Montréal (very much as they would go to Trump country) to observe the bigoted 'pure laine' Québécois in their environment. Interestingly the journalist who wrote the article is also the same journalist who, when he was posted in France, wrote some pretty ugly articles about France and its fight against militant Islamism, which he equated with bigotry and racism (the fight against militant Islamism by French authorities, not Islamism). These articles created an outrage in France, even among left-wing liberal circles.

Quote:
In Quebec, the Independence Movement Gives Way to a New Nationalism

In Monday’s election, residents of a town that was once a stronghold of the independence movement are expected to back the province’s popular premier, who has embraced a nationalism based on French Québécois identity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/02/w...s-legault.html
A few excerpts:
Quote:
Residents in the small city of L’Assomption, Quebec, once overwhelmingly backed the province’s bid to break away from Canada in order to establish a French-speaking, independent nation.

On Monday, though, they and much of the rest of the province are expected to strongly back the re-election of their popular premier, who has abandoned calls for independence — and instead has embraced a nationalism based on French Québécois identity.

“It’s a conservative nationalism that recalls the themes of culture, history and memory,” said Jacques Beauchemin, a sociologist and a leading intellectual behind this shift. “It’s a return to the meaning of identity.”

But to critics, this nationalism threatens the cohesion of the increasingly diverse province by taking aim at immigrants, English speakers and other minorities.
Quote:
In its four years in office, the government of the premier, Francois Legault, has banned the wearing of religious symbols like the Muslim veil in some public areas and has further restricted the use of English. In his campaign for the election, Mr. Legault has doubled down on the issue of immigration, describing it as a threat to Quebec society — a stance at odds with that of the federal government, which is planning to increase immigration sharply over the next few years.

The position is also at odds with the stance of Montreal, the multicultural city where the premier’s popularity is comparatively weak.

“With this electoral strategy, Mr. Legault is deepening the divide between Montreal and the rest of Quebec,’’ said Gérard Bouchard, a historian and sociologist who is a leading intellectual in the province. “The result of this strategy is to marginalize immigrants and ethnic minorities who are concentrated in Montreal.”

A spokesman for Mr. Legault declined a request for an interview.
Quote:
Mr. Legault’s brand of nationalism departs sharply from the ideology behind the left-leaning secessionist movement, which sought autonomy for the French Québécois majority that felt historically oppressed by an English-speaking minority.
I love the "that felt". The alleged racism experienced by new immigrants and veiled Muslim women is presented as objective fact, but the oppression suffered by the French Canadians is purely subjective, "that felt" instead of "that was". This is the sort of subtle (or not so subtle) perniciousness in the New York Times articles.
Quote:
In his campaign, Mr. Legault has had to backpedal several times after making comments that, his critics say, reveal the divisiveness of his nationalism. [...] He later apologized [...] he also apologized [...] And he apologized last week, after his immigration minister falsely said [...]
Quote:
Mr. Legault initially argued to keep the crucifix, saying it was not a religious symbol, but changed his position after the passage of the law on religious symbols.

Critics say the law targets Muslims and fuels the debate over the place of veiled Muslim women in Quebec society. It embodies the transformation of Quebec nationalism, which saw itself as linked to other global liberation movements, into a reactionary force, said Jean-Pierre Couture, a political scientist at the University of Ottawa.
This quote above could be almost a copy and paste of the articles written by that journalist (when he was posted in France) about France's fight against militant Islamism (always with a local source to back the journalist of course).

Then we get of course the mandatory line about Jacques Parizeau and the "ethnic votes" (I spare you the paragraph).

The article ends with that quote from the Polish Catholic priest of L'Assomption:
Quote:
“Now immigrants arrive and experience a rejection in part, a devaluation of their dignity,” Father Ciszek said.

“If Quebec society wanted to perpetuate its French Canadian identity,” he said, “all it needed to do was have more children.”
What's funny is the likes of the New York Times, when they were very Waspish in the 1960s and 1970s, criticized the left-leaning Québécois nationalism of the PQ with their Waspish glasses (bunch of leftist Commies attacking hard-working Anglo-Montrealer capitalists etc), and now that they have become 'woke', they criticize Québécois nationalism with their new wokist glasses. Things haven't changed much since the Boston Puritans wanted to eradicate that nest of French 'papists' up there in Canada 300 years ago. Whatever the ideology of the moment, French Canada is a threat.
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