Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by wave46

I don't get it either.

People sound the way they do. It just is and I don't get the hangup of it.

If one is so damned ashamed that they can't handle the way they sound when they talk, I guess one could try faking an accent until that becomes the new you. The transition is going to be kind of jarring for those around you, but it's doable.

It is pretty common to attribute negative characteristics to people based on their accents (not that that makes it right!). There is a lot of prejudice in the USA, for example, against the Appalachian accent(s). In Canada, we make passive-aggressive fun of Newfoundland and "hoser" accents (with negative stereotyping in both cases). For a Canadian to form negative stereotypes of standard Canadian English, however, seems odd indeed.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

For a Canadian to form negative stereotypes of standard Canadian English, however, seems odd indeed.

...and to form positive ones of the accent of a country this forumer seems otherwise to despise...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It is pretty common to attribute negative characteristics to people based on their accents (not that that makes it right!). There is a lot of prejudice in the USA, for example, against the Appalachian accent(s). In Canada, we make passive-aggressive fun of Newfoundland and "hoser" accents (with negative stereotyping in both cases). For a Canadian to form negative stereotypes of standard Canadian English, however, seems odd indeed.

As the non-PC saying goes: "On est tous l'Indien (sic ) de quelqu'un d'autre".

Viewed from a U.S. or even a Wannabe American perspective, the standard Canadian accent may indeed sound like the geeky little brother who's just a bit "off".

I've read a number of orientation guides for Frenchmen moving to Quebec, and most of them mention something like "don't forget that here, you're the one with the funny sounding accent!"

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've read a number of orientation guides for Frenchmen moving to Quebec, and most of them mention something like "don't forget that here, you're the one with the funny sounding accent!"

My partner is from Western Canada and we have done a few trips to Quebec and France at this point. He was asking me about some French phrase a while ago and my first thought was "why are you saying that with a ridiculous fake French accent instead of the normal way?" then I remembered he would have heard it in France.

Imagine Francophones in Quebec learning English in Canada while affecting a British accent.

I have noticed that French loan words or phrases in BC often come via the US and France so they are sometimes pronounced quite differently from Quebec-derived stuff that makes its way into the English lexicon in the eastern end of the country (simplest example is the French "-in" word ending getting translated to English "-awn").

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by someone123

My partner is from Western Canada and we have done a few trips to Quebec and France at this point. He was asking me about some French phrase a while ago and my first thought was "why are you saying that with a ridiculous fake French accent instead of the normal way?" then I remembered he would have heard it in France.

Imagine Francophones in Quebec learning English in Canada while affecting a British accent.

I have noticed that French loan words or phrases in BC often come via the US and France so they are sometimes pronounced quite differently from Quebec-derived stuff that makes its way into the English lexicon in the eastern end of the country (simplest example is the French "-in" word ending getting translated to English "-awn").

A province full of people who talk like Jacques Parizeau? That would certainly class the place up!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

My partner is from Western Canada and we have done a few trips to Quebec and France at this point. He was asking me about some French phrase a while ago and my first thought was "why are you saying that with a ridiculous fake French accent instead of the normal way?" then I remembered he would have heard it in France.

Imagine Francophones in Quebec learning English in Canada while affecting a British accent.

I have noticed that French loan words or phrases in BC often come via the US and France so they are sometimes pronounced quite differently from Quebec-derived stuff that makes its way into the English lexicon in the eastern end of the country (simplest example is the French "-in" word ending getting translated to English "-awn").

So by this, do you mean saying something like "magasin" as "magga-zawn"?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So by this, do you mean saying something like "magasin" as "magga-zawn"?

Yep.

[rousseau]

I've always been struck by how "ine" is pronounced in Quebec, i.e. Lachine sounds like "la-shin" more than it sounds like "la-sheen."

Would a metropolitan French speaker say it more like "la-sheen"?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So by this, do you mean saying something like "magasin" as "magga-zawn"?

"Au gratin" comes to mind, but the English pronunciation would be "in" (or "en") rather than "awn".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yep.

OK. Whereas the Quebec "-in" is sharper, though not as much in younger generations. It still basically sounds like the "an" sound in "bank".

The French way of saying it is actually somewhere in between the American "awn" and the way it's said in Quebec. Closer to the Quebec way of saying it, though.

Ironically, the closest to "magga-zawn" is probably Acadian French. Especially certain varieties like SW Nova Scotia.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

"Au gratin" comes to mind, but the English pronunciation would be "in" rather than "awn".

I think you may actually hear both from Canadian anglophones. Or even three different ways?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think you may actually hear both from Canadian anglophones. Or even three different ways?

Yes, three ways, although there wouldn't be much difference between an "in" and an "en" English pronunciation (in Canada). It's that "manager to checkout sex" thing ....

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

OK. Whereas the Quebec "-in" is sharper, though not as much in younger generations. It still basically sounds like the "an" sound in "bank".

The French way of saying it is actually somewhere in between the American "awn" and the way it's said in Quebec. Closer to the Quebec way of saying it, though.

Ironically, the closest to "magga-zawn" is probably Acadian French. Especially certain varieties like SW Nova Scotia.

-ent sounds tend to be different in Canada too compared to France.

Acadian French is odd in that there is a lot of variety in such a small population. A lot of Acadians are heavily anglicized but then again some small pockets are less so and have held onto pretty distinctive accents and linguistic features. Until recent decades, there would have been ~0 cross-pollination between Quebec and rural Acadian towns.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I've always been struck by how "ine" is pronounced in Quebec, i.e. Lachine sounds like "la-shin" more than it sounds like "la-sheen."

Would a metropolitan French speaker say it more like "la-sheen"?

Generally speaking yes. Though the "ee" sound is less emphasized by people in France than anglophones do.

Anglophones seem to greatly exaggerate the "ee" sound in French words. I remember being in the south of France with some Aussies and Brits and when I referred to Nice with a short clipped "ee" sound (a bit different from "nihsss" which you hear from many Québécois) and they were all flabbergasted by my pronunciation of Nice, and said "man, all my life I thought it was Neeeeeeeeeeesse!"

I have noticed that my kids and their friends pronounce the "ee" a bit more in these words. Not really like anglophones, but closer to the way Euro-French say it.

I have mentioned before that their "an/en" sounds as in "maintenant" a million other words, are also more in line with Euro-French than mine and my wife's.

[Acajack]

Another generational linguistic change:

One of my kids was doing homework on the back deck, and just came in saying "Y a trop de moustiques!"

No one in my generation would have said "moustiques". Our word was "maringouins".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

-ent sounds tend to be different in Canada too compared to France.

Acadian French is odd in that there is a lot of variety in such a small population. A lot of Acadians are heavily anglicized but then again some small pockets are less so and have held onto pretty distinctive accents and linguistic features. Until recent decades, there would have been ~0 cross-pollination between Quebec and rural Acadian towns.

Acadians also pronounce the D in front of I like the Euro-French, for some reason.

Whereas in Quebec and also points west (Franco-Ontarians, Manitobans, etc.) a word like "dire" sounds like "dzeer", in Acadian it sounds like "deer". The latter being more common in Euro-French.

Same goes for the T in front of an I.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have mentioned before that their "an/en" sounds as in "maintenant" a million other words, are also more in line with Euro-French than mine and my wife's.

That's fascinating. I'm not sure if younger anglophones have noticeable differences in pronunciation from people forty and up. I can't think of any, anyway.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Acadians also pronounce the D in front of I like the Euro-French, for some reason.

Whereas in Quebec and also points west (Franco-Ontarians, Manitobans, etc.) a word like "dire" sounds like "dzeer", in Acadian it sounds like "deer". The latter being more common in Euro-French.

Same goes for the T in front of an I.

In front of a u too...
Ps: Is it bad that, for your last sentence, the first word that came to my mind was “osti”... Sometimes I wonder if other francophone Canadians use “sacre” as profanities too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

In front of a u too...
Ps: Is it bad that, for your last sentence, the first word that came to my mind was “osti”... Sometimes I wonder if other francophone Canadians use “sacre” as profanities too.

Franco-Ontarians and francophones native to the West swear pretty much identically to the Québécois when speaking French. Northern New Brunswick is also basically identical to Québécois in terms of swearing.

As you get into SE NB and Nova Scotia and PEI the Québécois influence starts to drop off in swearing. Moncton is probably a mix of influences, so not as Québécois as a place like Caraquet or Edmundston.

By the time you get to Baie-Ste-Marie in SW NS, Québécois swearing basically drops off the map. These days, most people are aware of the Quebec words, but they don't really use them themselves.

One of my parents is from the Acadie that's quite distant from Quebec influence. Apparently the swearing there has always (going back to the 1950s at least) been mostly English words (shit, fuck), even when speaking French.

I am not really aware of many uniquely Acadien swear words. And if they existed, I'd probably know them!

[megadude]

One of the funniest things I've ever heard said with a stereotypical Canadian accent:

https://vimeo.com/428761076