Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....hools-question

Regulation 17 was implemented in 1912 and affected the first two years of elementary school and limited French instruction to an hour a day. It is effectively repealed in 1927. There were 45 French secondary schools in Ontario in the 1950s.

Sorry, I meant public. Those were all private so people had to pay to send their kids there.

I went to Franco-Ontarien school for a number of years and most of our teachers (people born in the 40s and 50s) had done their schooling primarily in English.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sorry, I meant public. Those were all private so people had to pay to send their kids there.

I went to Franco-Ontarien school for a number of years and most of our teachers (people born in the 40s and 50s) had done their schooling primarily in English.

Wasn’t that the system in pre-quiet-revolution Quebec too?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Binour

Ontario Apologizes for 1912 Law on French in Schools
Regulation 17 Effectively Banned Public French-Language Education for a Generation

So, can we expect an official apology from Quebec in about 20 years time for heavily restricting access to English language education in la belle province???

Methinks not.........

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When I was a kid most of the older Acadien black people I knew had obvious signs of having been treated as "lesser people", with deep-seated inferiority complexes, negativity, defeatism, thinking they'd never amount to much, etc.

I don't know if that was related to lingering effects of the deportation slavery two centuries earlier or disenfranchisement up till their own generation or voter suppression/police killings up to the present day, or perhaps a litany of other affronts suffered since then, but it was definitely noticeable to me that I they are part of a fallen people that was on the losing end of most things in history and life.

Aww, that's so empathic, better than the usual "what about black crime?! BLM is as bad as the KKK! Seattle/CHAZ is burning! all lives matter!"

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Downplaying is what we all seem to do best. Why expect anything different?

I don't expect different lol - they're as predictable as the rising sun

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Every thread eventually circles back to Quebec grievances.

There should be a Quebec grievance thread for them to have their circle jerks without having to involve the rest of us

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

Fixed



I don't expect different lol - they're as predictable as the rising sun



There should be a Quebec grievance thread for them to have their circle jerks without having to involve the rest of us

Except that the deportation didn't happen in Quebec, and the people I am talking about weren't living in Quebec. All of this concerns the Maritime provinces.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Except that the deportation didn't happen in Quebec, and the people I am talking about weren't living in Quebec. All of this concerns the Maritime provinces.

Some folks are just poor at geography. I blame google!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

So, can we expect an official apology from Quebec in about 20 years time for heavily restricting access to English language education in la belle province???

Methinks not.........

Probably not because the goal of Quebec's policies isn't to take little Anglo-Quebecers and turn them into little francophones. Their educational rights are already protected and always have been.

Whereas the goal of the ROC provinces was precisely to take little Acadiens, Franco-Ontariens, Franco-Manitobains, etc. and turn them into little Anglo-Canadians. A half century or century later, one can say that they were relatively successful.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Some folks are just poor at geography. I blame google!

At least some people on here are honest!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Wasn’t that the system in pre-quiet-revolution Quebec too?

To some degree, yes.

Though in Quebec a significant number of the collèges classiques were subsidized by the province (their number and the dollars growing exponentially in the 20th century until the 1960s) so that in many cases they ended up being de facto public schools.

In Ontario the government did not fund them (AFAIK the Ontario government has never subsidized private schools of any nature, even today) and so it was only well-off francophone families or poorer ones who were targeted by the schools for religious vocations that went to school in French.

The member of my wife's family who went to a collège classique was one of those cases. He came from a very poor family but he was smart and serious so the Oblates recruited him with the understanding that he'd eventually become one of their priests.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Acajack

To some degree, yes.

Though in Quebec a significant number of the collèges classiques were subsidized by the province (their number and the dollars growing exponentially in the 20th century until the 1960s) so that in many cases they ended up being de facto public schools.

In Ontario the government did not fund them (AFAIK the Ontario government has never subsidized private schools of any nature, even today) and so it was only well-off francophone families or poorer ones who were targeted by the schools for religious vocations that went to school in French.

The member of my wife's family who went to a collège classique was one of those cases. He came from a very poor family but he was smart and serious so the Oblates recruited him with the understanding that he'd eventually become one of their priests.

Alberta has a publicly funded Catholic School system. I graduated from it.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Probably not because the goal of Quebec's policies isn't to take little Anglo-Quebecers and turn them into little francophones. Their educational rights are already protected and always have been.

Whereas the goal of the ROC provinces was precisely to take little Acadiens, Franco-Ontariens, Franco-Manitobains, etc. and turn them into little Anglo-Canadians. A half century or century later, one can say that they were relatively successful.

So the difference then is between a very tight leash (chokehold really) in Quebec vs extirpation in the ROC (at least in your mind's eye).

Yet in a number of regions in the ROC, there are a number of vibrant francophone communities where French is used in everyday business discourse, and in normal social interactions, generally free from government interference. Meanwhile in Quebec, such activities are openly frowned upon and for the most part, outside of downtown and west island Montreal, is becoming increasingly impossible. This is actively encouraged by the Quebec government.

I would say that the worm has turned and the goal is now extirpation in Quebec, and loose control (indifference) in the ROC. Francophone communities hors Quebec are increasing safe spaces. Anglophone communities in Quebec are increasingly becoming tiny highly regulated exclaves.

[dleung]

^^Well, this is the part of the never-ending loop where the Liojack response goes "well the Francophone majority of this province supports this discrimination, so stay out of our business! states rights! I like democracy more than I hate discrimination!"

But also "I will fully fight wokeness-based discrimination in private institutions though! I hate discrimination more than I like democracy!"

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dleung

^^Well, this is the part of the never-ending loop where the Liojack response goes "well the majority of this province supports this discrimination, so stay out of our business! states rights!"

You're probably too dishonest to admit it's obvious, but it's obvious to anyone with brain cells that whenever I'm "complaining" about, say, how I was regularly discriminated against while I was living in Vancouver, I am joking. It's perfectly normal that a Francophone would have a harder time (discrimination) as it's mainly an English-speaking city; I don't realistically expect to be able to live in the federal official language that's my native one when over there. (When in Rome, if your foreign habits clash with the Romans', then that's YOUR problem, not theirs.)

So, yes, if the majority in some province support something, AND it's not something that affects others outside it (the tarsands, for example), I'm all for them doing whatever they want to do. What could possibly be the alternative? Democracy IS the best (least bad) system.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by dleung

^^Well, this is the part of the never-ending loop where the Liojack response goes "well the majority of this province supports this discrimination, so stay out of our business! states rights!"

But also "I will fully fight wokeness-based discrimination in private institutions though!"

I wonder what they will say if Danielle Smith becomes Premier of AB, passes her Sovereignty act and declares that Alberta is free to pollute all it wants, won't pay equalization and won't follow any Federal laws? In addition she might throw in some anti Quebec and anti francophone stuff too. Will it be fine then?

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

You're probably too dishonest to admit it's obvious, but it's obvious to anyone with brain cells that whenever I'm "complaining" about, say, how I was regularly discriminated against while I was living in Vancouver, I am joking. It's perfectly normal that a Francophone would have a harder time (discrimination) as it's mainly an English-speaking city; I don't realistically expect to be able to live in the federal official language that's my native one when over there. (When in Rome, if your foreign habits clash with the Romans', then that's YOUR problem, not theirs.)

So, yes, if the majority in some province support something, AND it's not something that affects others outside it (the tarsands, for example), I'm all for them doing what they want to do. What's the alternative?

Honest question: Could the 'discrimination' you faced socially be due to other factors? Because no one on SSP 'discriminates' against you for having a French accent.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dleung

But also "I will fully fight wokeness-based discrimination in private institutions though! I hate discrimination more than I like democracy!"

LOL. Sure, provided that "fully" == "by devoting less than 0.001% of my free time to occasionally pointing out I disapprove race-based discrimination on an inconsequential message board, and not doing anything else about it, ever".

If federal bureaucrats "fully" did their jobs the way I fully fight this fight, the federal governments would be orders of magnitude more inept than they currently are, and I'm not exaggerating! (Making this post on topic with a federal government comment! )

[dleung]

Originally Posted by lio45

So, yes, if the majority in some province support [discrimination], AND it's not something that affects others outside it (the tarsands, for example), I'm all for them doing whatever they want to do. What could possibly be the alternative? Democracy IS the best (least bad) system.

Ok, now apply that to woke institutions and trans-athletes in colleges, case closed!

Bottom line is you hide behind democracy when discrimination works for your in-group, but fight it when it benefits minorities.

If the out-of-touch acrobatics you do here is emblematic of real life, any discrimination you face in Vancouver has nothing to do with language. In any case, conflating lack of demand for services in a particular language has nothing to do with government-legislated discrimination

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Honest question: Could the 'discrimination' you faced socially be due to other factors? Because no one on SSP 'discriminates' against you for having a French accent.

How do you know lio has a strong French accent? He spends a lot of time elsewhere in Canada and in the States. His English language skills may be a flawless as Jean Charest's

BTW, why would someone discriminate against anyone with a French accent anyway? I find a French accent quite charming really. I meet francophones in daily interactions on a daily basis here in Moncton, and it doesn't bother me at all.

The accent isn't the problem. Sometimes poor English language skills are, but this is only because I get worried that something will get lost in the translation, and that the other person may say something they don't really intend. This can lead to serious and unintentional misunderstandings.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

LOL. Sure, provided that "fully" == "by devoting less than 0.001% of my free time to occasionally pointing out I disapprove race-based discrimination on an inconsequential message board, and not doing anything else about it, ever".

So inconsequential that you spend have your time on this forum which you frequent almost every day getting into arguments about it?

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

How do you know lio has a strong French accent? He spends a lot of time elsewhere in Canada and in the States. His English language skills may be a flawless as Jean Charest's

BTW, why would someone discriminate against anyone with a French accent anyway? I find a French accent quite charming really. I meet francophones in daily interactions on a daily basis here in Moncton, and it doesn't bother me at all.

The accent isn't the problem. Sometimes poor English language skills are, but this is only because I get worried that something will get lost in the translation, and that the other person may say something they don't really intend. This can lead to serious and unintentional misunderstandings.

An assumption based on his post about facing some form of discrimination for being a francophone in Vancouver. No one is carding him to see where he's originally from which leaves few identifying factors beyond having an accent or maybe flippantly thumbing his nose at the ROC when visiting.