Winnipeg Construction X

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm certain TNSE knew that the honeymoon would end eventually and planned accordingly. There's no way it wouldn't have. That said, demand has softened more than I'd have expected considering that the Jets are a pretty good team - people were paying a fortune to watch the Jets when they were a punching bag but it feels like there's less interest in buying tickets now even though they're still a playoff team.

Bottom line, it in no way feels as though the Jets have outgrown Bell MTS Place.

I agree. For sure they knew the honeymoon wouldn't last.

I do think they did get a little greedy & cheap. Not sure if it's through arrogance or ignorance, but their failure to deliver a game day experience like other rinks despite upper echelon ticket pricing is quite unfortunate. Once you lose paying fans, it's hard to get them back.

Even little things like a proper DJ, on-ice graphics (other rinks have had for a decade), good giveaways, bands, affordable food & drinks, etc....

Would be nice if they got creative (given the high prices) but even just being on the same level as other rinks would be enough.

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm certain TNSE knew that the honeymoon would end eventually and planned accordingly. There's no way it wouldn't have. That said, demand has softened more than I'd have expected considering that the Jets are a pretty good team - people were paying a fortune to watch the Jets when they were a punching bag but it feels like there's less interest in buying tickets now even though they're still a playoff team.

Bottom line, it in no way feels as though the Jets have outgrown Bell MTS Place.

Exactly. For their first season back in 2011, the cheapest full season tickets started at $1,775 and for the 2019/20 season, they started at $2,211 - an increase of 25%. In comparison, average weekly earnings in Manitoba only increased by 21% between September 2011 and September 2019, so they've been raising ticket prices slightly faster than incomes have been rising, which means that for the average household ticket prices are taking up a larger share of the household budget than before.

I think Manitobans were really excited to have their team back (hence the honeymoon period) and were willing to pay accordingly. But after the initial wow-factor wears off, many are realizing that the financial commitment is not insignificant, and naturally if some peoples incomes aren't rising as fast as ticket prices, some people will drop out or opt to watch on TV instead.

If True North really wants to keep increasing their prices at a current rate, they should be working hard to fill their office towers with tenants that will bring high-paying white-collar jobs from outside Manitoba in to Manitoba.

Simply having the presence of a professional sports team does not increase the economic health of a city - efforts should be made to increase wages and the number of people employed earning good wages if they are to truly sustain significant price increases that outpace wage growth.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

That said, demand has softened more than I'd have expected considering that the Jets are a pretty good team

Looking around social media over roughly the time the Jets have been back it seems a large number of people that rushed to get season tickets in 2011 were single, younger adults at the time. Now that same group has settled more into family life with young kids making it a lot more difficult to go from work to a Jets game on say a Tuesday night. The same demographic today is heavily struggling with chronic unemployment/underemployment which really limits their ability to be at Jets games. Not only that but they seem to have different interests other than watching professional sports.

TNSE needs to get serious about doing a demographic market study and start planning accordingly. There has definitely be a shift in their in-person attendance from young working professionals to older pre-retirement group. Reality is that pre-retirement age demo is going to fade fairly quickly. There would seem to be an opportunity to potential grab back that early demo but more as parents with teenagers. Build up the brand loyalty and game day experience with those teens who will become young adults themselves.

[bomberjet]

I'm in the group of younger people back then, now with family. Hey I'm still young too! Anyways. We will be keeping our tix forever and still go to the same amount of games we always did. Still able to sell our tix fairly easily. Only been to 1 unplanned game this year due tot ix not selling. It was one of the Tuesday night games.

Regarding the arena. I don't see a new arena being built anytime soon. It's not even 20 years old, 10's of million in recent upgrades. It'll be like 30 years or more before anything new comes along.

If they actually did build a new one. It would, theoretically, lower ticket prices and potentially concessions. Right now we have higher ticket prices because we have the least seats. When the on ice product costs the same in every market, theoretically. So an arena with more seats could lower ticket prices, opening up the market to a wider range of people. Again, in theory. If you build a new arena though, you need to pay for it, which could increase prices.

[Wpg_Guy]

Crescent Drive Park Pavilion is *finally* coming out of the ground! The Pavilion will include public washrooms, skating/tobogganing warm up space, and a big community fireplace.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7RjikjgU1z/

[bomberjet]

There were some fancy suits in the skywalk looking out at city place. Talking about glass in there where theres concrete panels. Maybe meaningless. Maybe something to it.

[esquire]

I like that pavilion - always nice to see the established parks getting some love.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There were some fancy suits in the skywalk looking out at city place. Talking about glass in there where theres concrete panels. Maybe meaningless. Maybe something to it.

Could it be some effort to "keep up with the Joneses" in relation to the new construction at TNS?

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Plus if the CPR yards ever disappear, inevitably massive investment and development will come. But if theres already a new arena, a thousand new condos and storefronts in the North End... then the pressures on CPR to relocate would be much greater, and higher pressures too on the City and Province, to monetize this land as well. Rotting building stock and all as well... I'd imagine replacing some of those 1900s housing with 2020s builds, would be a massive upgrading to housing stocks and life qualities. It wouldn't be some shoddy 1970s buildout with strip malls and prefab cinderblock apartments haha, this would be a massive rethink and rebuild, that could throw Winnipeg ahead of the curve.

I could also imagine that a certain SSP forumer on here, would LOVE to be the person whose plans for this area would be first & foremost under consideration. Maybe there will be a Viking museum in the mix?

Funny I was thinking of this same thing too in the past few days, don't know what triggered it, but one thing I was thinking about is what Winnipeg will look and feel like after all the projects of the past few years are complete (300 Main, Inuit Art Gallery, Osborne Pl., TNS 1-5, replacement of Osborne Village Inn, the Innovation Centres, etc...) I started thinking where else could there be redevelopment of an area.... then it appeared ... In my minds eye I saw several 20+ storey hi-rise private market condos. and apartments with retail storefronts in some, all along the North End side of Arlington Street, with middle-class residents living in them. Its all inevitable because after the decline of any city neighbourhood comes gentrification.

Like armorand93 said in the quote above, its time to begin replacing some of those early 1900s homes in the North End with better quality housing. Maybe this decade Winnipeg can begin this massive project.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

There is nothing bold or fresh about 1970s-style urban renewal.

A Core Area Initives #3 might work, but instead of the way it was done in the 1980s, do it more like Metro did with Lakeview Sq. in the early 1970s, upgrade the infrastructure and let the private sector do the planning, financing and building of hi-rises condos. and apartments along the Arlington Street Corridor.


Add in a new Arlington Bridge with an AT and rail-based rapid transit component and this section of the city could be as dense as Osborne Village one day, maybe over 30 to 50 years from now.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There were some fancy suits in the skywalk looking out at city place. Talking about glass in there where theres concrete panels. Maybe meaningless. Maybe something to it.

They put in some small units along the walkway to TNS, but they have no windows and are super weird. Can't imagine anyone leasing them unless dirt cheap. Adding windows may change that.

I have also heard that MPI is seriously considering selling cityplace (and soon), so that could definitely have been one of the interested parties.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Funny I was thinking of this same thing too in the past few days, don't know what triggered it, but one thing I was thinking about is what Winnipeg will look and feel like after all the projects of the past few years are complete (300 Main, Inuit Art Gallery, Osborne Pl., TNS 1-5, replacement of Osborne Village Inn, the Innovation Centres, etc...) I started thinking where else could there be redevelopment of an area.... then it appeared ... In my minds eye I saw several 20+ storey hi-rise private market condos. and apartments with retail storefronts in some, all along the North End side of Arlington Street, with middle-class residents living in them. Its all inevitable because after the decline of any city neighbourhood comes gentrification.

Like armorand93 said in the quote above, its time to begin replacing some of those early 1900s homes in the North End with better quality housing. Maybe this decade Winnipeg can begin this massive project.

Agreed & thanks. I feel too, that they should all deserve a little better, than rotting 100 year old homes that probably aren't even remotely up to code either... so in all honestly, bulldozing it all and replacing it with brand-new modern, affordable housing (and giving those residents deeds to some of those new homes) would be a MASSIVE catalyst change for the North End.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

There were some fancy suits in the skywalk looking out at city place. Talking about glass in there where theres concrete panels. Maybe meaningless. Maybe something to it.

MPI is planning to do a 200,000 sq ft renovation to their offices at Cityplace.

[bomberjet]

Ooh. So could be some action at City Place.

To clarify. They were in the skywalk over Donald.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Like armorand93 said in the quote above, its time to begin replacing some of those early 1900s homes in the North End with better quality housing. Maybe this decade Winnipeg can begin this massive project.

Anything happening in the north end is extremely cost prohibitive. Trying to do a whole planned community thing is even worse. The underlying issues that make the north end an undesirable place (poverty, gangs, meth, other drugs, crime) need to be addressed to have the north end start to turn around.

In terms of more of an organic turn for a neighbourhood the West End, especially west of Arlington is definitely starting to make a turn similar to what was happening in Wosely. It is to the point the Wosely wishing folks are getting priced out of south of Portage and moving into the north side neighbourhoods. The next phase of that organic growth is likely east of Arlington and towards downtown. A similar trend seems to be happening in Elmwood close to Henderson and especially west of Henderson.

[esquire]

^ For several years now I've been hearing about people buying (often their first homes) in the more southerly parts of the West End closer to Portage and facetiously referring to the area as "North Wolseley"... it's definitely a trend. And it makes sense given that the houses north of Portage are generally smaller than the ones in Wolseley, and more affordable on that basis alone.

[pegcityfan]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ For several years now I've been hearing about people buying (often their first homes) in the more southerly parts of the West End closer to Portage and facetiously referring to the area as "North Wolseley"... it's definitely a trend. And it makes sense given that the houses north of Portage are generally smaller than the ones in Wolseley, and more affordable on that basis alone.

I remember even 9-10 years ago (when I lived there), people buying up West End homes referring to the area as North Wolseley (real estate agents especially).

I have a second property still in Wolseley and can be sketchy at times. It felt like the safest area in Winnipeg to me 9 years ago. The drug crisis in the city wasn't visible like it is today which i assume is much to blame. Noticed quite a few houses selling way below what they would have garnered last year. Hoping the market bounces back and the drug crisis is addressed more actively city wide.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by pegcityfan

I remember even 9-10 years ago (when I lived there), people buying up West End homes referring to the area as North Wolseley (real estate agents especially).

I find now parts of Wolseley could be considered South West End. I have a second property still in the area and can be sketchy at times. It felt like the safest area in Winnipeg to me 9 years ago. The drug crisis in the city wasn't visible like it is today which i assume is much to blame. Noticed quite a few houses selling way below what they would have garnered last year. Hoping the market bounces back and the drug crisis is addressed more actively city wide.

I have some friends living in Wolseley and I've heard some horror stories from them lately... seems that the meth crisis of the last few years has had a noticeable impact on the area.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm certain TNSE knew that the honeymoon would end eventually and planned accordingly. There's no way it wouldn't have. That said, demand has softened more than I'd have expected considering that the Jets are a pretty good team - people were paying a fortune to watch the Jets when they were a punching bag but it feels like there's less interest in buying tickets now even though they're still a playoff team.

Bottom line, it in no way feels as though the Jets have outgrown Bell MTS Place.

Yes, I remember how people were annoyed with Brian Burke back in 2011 when he questioned the staying power of Jets Fever. I think he said he wondered what it would be like around Year 8. The team has been pretty good so that’s a huge plus, but in the end in a small market like Winnipeg you’re having to pass the hat around to the same people over and over again. Not that I’m too worried but it’s a challenge that most teams don’t have to quite the same degree.

[drew]

^ straight from the horses mouth - property crime appears to be on the rise in Wolseley.

However - some of that "appears" is also due to the very vocal and increasing member size of its community facebook page - which appears to mostly exist as a way of reporting who's car was rummaged through and whose bike was stolen.

So it's hard to know if crime is actually increasing, or if its a perception based on these types of public forums.

BTW - for us uppity Wolesleyites - pockets of the West End are not "North Wolseley" - but rather PoWo...