The Climate Change Discussion Thread - Page 99

Acajack · #**1961** Posted **Jul 1, 2021, 11:47 AM**

The record highs in BC near 50C made news headlines around the world. And I assume the ensuing fires also will grab attention.

I think one of the things fuelling the global media attention is that "Canada" isn't supposed to get that hot.

Of course most of the planet's denizens aren't aware that interior BC can average highs around or over 30C in the summer. (I suspect many of them think summer in "Canada" means 18-20C highs with freak peaks at 25C.)

Which is not to say that this extreme heat episode isn't noteworthy and alarming.

lio45 · #**1962** Posted **Jul 1, 2021, 5:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

The record highs in BC near 50C made news headlines around the world. And I assume the ensuing fires also will grab attention.

I think one of the things fuelling the global media attention is that "Canada" isn't supposed to get that hot.

Of course most of the planet's denizens aren't aware that interior BC can average highs around or over 30C in the summer. (I suspect many of them think summer in "Canada" means 18-20C highs with freak peaks at 25C.)

Exactly.

Same with, say, Siberia. It's famous for "long, brutally cold winters" (quoting Wikipedia) but due to its extremely continental climate, +30C in summer is normal and >+40C probably not that uncommon (haven't confirmed this but I'd bet anything).

("It's +50C in Canada! OMG their igloos must be melting!")

Truenorth00 · #**1963** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 2:29 PM**

No mention of the droughts striking Western Canada yet?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...toba-1.6100138

Of course, our usual climate denialists brigade are back to claiming this is all natural variation....

MolsonExport · #**1964** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 5:15 PM**

Climate change: US-Canada heatwave 'virtually impossible' without warming

Quote:

The searing heat that scorched western Canada and the US at the end of June was "virtually impossible" without climate change, say scientists.

In their study, the team of researchers says that the deadly heatwave was a one-in-a-1,000-year event.

But we can expect extreme events such as this to become more common as the world heats up due to climate change.

If humans hadn't influenced the climate to the extent that they have, the event would have been 150 times less likely.

electricmodes · #**1965** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

No mention of the droughts striking Western Canada yet?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...toba-1.6100138

Of course, our usual climate denialists brigade are back to claiming this is all natural variation....

Yup, as a farmer in North Central Sask I come across these people all the time in a normal year and oddly enough even more so this year.

accord1999 · #**1966** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 7:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

No mention of the droughts striking Western Canada yet?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...toba-1.6100138

Of course, our usual climate denialists brigade are back to claiming this is all natural variation....

It's called weather just like last year's non-drought conditions.

Truenorth00 · #**1967** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 7:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by accord1999

It's called weather just like last year's non-drought conditions.

I was wondering when you'd come along with denialists talking points.

This time with cherry picked data too! How considerate.

I am confused though. What does crop production data from 2018-2020 have to do with a current declared state of emergency in 2021? Could you get more clarity from your boss at the War Room? Thanks.

Truenorth00 · #**1968** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 7:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricmodes

Yup, as a farmer in North Central Sask I come across these people all the time in a normal year and oddly enough even more so this year.

I honestly don't know how folks like yourself stay sane. I am starting to feel personal disgust at denialists. I see them as utterly immoral selfish bastards who would literally fuck over their own kids to save 5¢/L on gas.

accord1999 · #**1969** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 7:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I was wondering when you'd come along with denialists talking points.

This time with cherry picked data too! How considerate.

You're the cherry picker, cherry picking short-term weather events , but that's typical of alarmists. Why is drought in some areas in 2021 more representative of the climate trend then the excellent conditions of 2020, or the wet conditions of 2019?

Quote:

I am confused though. What does crop production data from 2018-2020 have to do with a current declared state of emergency in 2021? Could you get more clarity from your boss at the War Room? Thanks.

It shows how much natural variation there is year to year.

Truenorth00 · #**1970** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 7:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by accord1999

You're the cherry picker, cherry picking short-term weather events , but that's typical of alarmists. Why is drought in some areas in 2021 more representative of the climate trend then the excellent conditions of 2020, or the wet conditions of 2019?

It shows how much natural variation there is year to year.

Total crop failure is sooooo within the bands of usual natural variation... Those communities declare states of emergencies every year right?

And I'm the cherry picker?

Fuck off with your bullshit.

accord1999 · #**1971** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 7:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Total crop failure is sooooo within the bands of usual natural variation...

Total crop failures in small areas is perfectly reasonable, given how much land is farmed in Canada. Meanwhile Canada-wide production has been steadily trending upwards (with significant year to year variation), even though seeded area has only grown from 28.1M hectares to 31.5M hectares:

Truenorth00 · #**1972** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 7:40 PM**

Ahhh yes. Now we're on to the obfuscation stage. Ignore the immediate acute crisis while citing broader data. But we all know what will happen if broader temperature data is brought up....

Serious question. Do you troll for fun or pay? Or because you legitimately don't give a fuck and think the entire global scientific community is full of it? I'm genuinely curious what motivates folks like you.

MolsonExport · #**1973** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 8:15 PM**

Stage 1: Deny the Problem Exists
Stage 2: Deny We're the Cause
Stage 2b: Consensus Denial
Stage 3: Deny It's a Problem
Stage 4: Deny We can Solve It
Stage 5: It's too Late

Truenorth00 · #**1974** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 8:58 PM**

There's the great tactic where no weather is climate and no climate is weather. It amounts to denying climate change. But they don't ever have to admit they are denying climate change. Drought, fire, flood, hurricane, species going extinct? It's all just weather.

I'm just wondering whether folks like jawagord and accord1999 actually believe what they pedal or they are just so psychopathic that they look at their kids and go, "I don't give a fuck. It's your problem. I want 15¢ off on gas."

I can't imagine being that much of a selfish prick. But I'm genuinely interested in understanding what it takes to get there. How many years does it take of living in Alberta and working in oil and gas before you internalize that shit?

And I'll be honest, every time I think of voting conservative, it's discussions like these that remind me who forms the base of that party. This denialism bullshit is such a turnoff. Even for someone who wants balanced budgets and increased defence spending.

accord1999 · #**1975** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 9:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Ahhh yes. Now we're on to the obfuscation stage. Ignore the immediate acute crisis while citing broader data. But we all know what will happen if broader temperature data is brought up....

Small level acute crisises happen every year, whether it's not enough moisture, too much moisture, early frost, late frost, disease, hail, things that have afflicted agriculture forever. Even in a good harvest year, the difference in seeded area and harvested area will be about 1 million hectares in Canada.

But the reality is that Canadian agricultural production has steadily grown over time with remarkable increases in yield. If you're scared about climate negatively affecting food production, then you shouldn't.

Quote:

There's the great tactic where no weather is climate and no climate is weather.

A great tactic often used by alarmists.

Truenorth00 · #**1976** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 9:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by accord1999

A great tactic often used by alarmists.

Another great strawman to deploy. Some Extinction Rebellion clown jumps on train somewhere.

Denialists everywhere: "See. It's all alarmist nonsense."

Simple questions:

1) Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?

2) Do you support any policies at all to cut emissions?

Yes or no questions should be about at your level.

O-tacular · #**1977** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 9:51 PM**

Starting to get really smoky in Calgary today. Can't wait for a summer of choking on forest fire smoke between insane heatwaves. I expect a sharp increase in lung cancer and breathing conditions in the future. This is becoming a season unto itself. Every year it seems the sky turns orange and it smells like campfire everywhere you go.

Truenorth00 · #**1978** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 9:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Starting to get really smoky in Calgary today. Can't wait for a summer of choking on forest fire smoke between insane heatwaves. I expect a sharp increase in lung cancer and breathing conditions in the future. This is becoming a season unto itself. Every year it seems the sky turns orange and it smells like campfire everywhere you go.

It's just weather though. You should just enjoy it. At least that's what accord1999 is suggesting.

O-tacular · #**1979** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 10:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's just weather though. You should just enjoy it. At least that's what accord1999 is suggesting.

For the first time in my life I'm beginning to wonder about the feasibility of living here in the future. Beyond summers of forest fire smoke we're looking at water shortages and severe drought as the glaciers that feed the Bow rapidly melt. And yet our insane provincial government continues to reallocate water licenses to coal companies that supposedly have been denied development approval by the AER.

accord1999 · #**1980** Posted **Jul 14, 2021, 10:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's just weather though. You should just enjoy it. At least that's what accord1999 is suggesting.

It is weather, there was little smoke in 2019 and 2020 because temperatures were cool and BC barely had fire seasons. But since I've seen data on the highly variable nature of the last 40 years of fire seasons in Canada, I didn't shout out that this was climate, rather than what it really is, weather.