Highways in Canada

[Doug]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

totally. No doubt, I would take the go-train. Or move closer to where I worked, if downtown. I cannot fathom how people drive the monster every day.

Even sunday afternoon, the 401 is very often choked. 10 billion lanes of creeping traffic. And you gotta go pee...

I moved to Ontario in fall 1988. As I naive 16 year old, I decided to drive to Montreal for the Thanksgiving weekend. Monday on the way back, the 401 gridlock started at Belleville and didn't let up until 7 hours later by Cambridge. It was carmageddon and probably way worse now.

[Innsertnamehere]

would have been way faster to drive around it on side roads.. probably closer to 4 hours.

[MolsonExport]

No way to make Taranna-Mtl in 4 hours off the 401. Even on the 401 you gotta be putting the pedal to the metal...I drove that route two hundred or more times.

The 401 sucks, except for all the other routes. Which I have tried.

the worlds widest, busiest highway. And it does not work half the time/

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by haljackey

401 maxes out at 18 through lanes. There are widenings here and there in Toronto making it 14 or 16 lanes in places (Widened from 4 to 12 lanes in the 1960's).

401 is the arguably the world's busiest highway, so its not like the widenings are not justified. If Toronto had a full (and non-tolled) bypass highway and the Gardiner was a full east-west highway along with better transit and planning the 401 would just be a regular urban highway.

407E might take some stress off the highway but the tolls for that and 407ETR are crazy high, but people will pay that to avoid gridlock. Time is money.

HOV lanes on the 401 are being implemented on the expansions in Mississauga and a transitway is planned in Durham along with the construction for 407E so at least that's some good stuff (if it works which I have my doubts).

Would Toronto be better off with a web of 6 to 8-lane freeways (i.e. normal urban freeways) as opposed to just a single 16-lane freeway?

Re: the Gardiner, that would probably require a widened DVP plus a Scarborough hydro corridor freeway.

Assuming the Gardiner needs a total teardown (and not just a re-decking, if the pillars are in reasonable shape), they should make it a surface level or depressed (if possible) 4-lane freeway restricted to HOV vehicles (i.e. limited to buses and carpools, perhaps with a 3 or 4 person minimum) and commercial vehicles prohibited. An extension of the 400 could be built the same way.

[Kitchissippi]

Looks like it's time to build the 409

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Would Toronto be better off with a web of 6 to 8-lane freeways (i.e. normal urban freeways) as opposed to just a single 16-lane freeway?

Re: the Gardiner, that would probably require a widened DVP plus a Scarborough hydro corridor freeway.

Eh? I'm saying if the Gardner was extended from the DVP to the 401 along it's planned route (Highway 2 alongside Lake Ontario) it would probably help reduce volumes on the 401 and likely the DVP.

Personally, I would prefer a few big highways over several smaller ones.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Looks like it's time to build the 409

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_409

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

No way to make Taranna-Mtl in 4 hours off the 401. Even on the 401 you gotta be putting the pedal to the metal...I drove that route two hundred or more times.

The 401 sucks, except for all the other routes. Which I have tried.

the worlds widest, busiest highway. And it does not work half the time/

I mean driving through the city.. (belleville to Cambridge) I could easily have made that in 4 hours by hopping onto Highway 2, driving to Cobourg, Going up Burnham, along Ganaraska, along Highway 7 to Brock, up Brock to Durham 5, along Durham 5 to york durham line, across stouffville road to yonge, up yonge to King road, across king road allll the way to winston churchill, up to erin halton town line, across that to guelph, and down Hanlon Parkway onto the 401 again. google maps says 5 hours.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=Bellev...,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17&t=m&z=9

now of course this is assuming the current sprawl levels of the GTA, in 1988 you probably could have just taken highway 7 for the vast majority of the route, allowing you to speed up the trip considerably.

[haljackey]

A new 3 lane roundabout on Highway 406 in Welland has opened: http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2013/09/05/live-new-406-roundabout-draws-spectators

Video of the highway... with a fail about 20 secs in on the roundabout:
• Video Link

[Innsertnamehere]

Good god I wonder how many clueless drivers will get in accidents trying to navigate that without thinking.. Roundabouts are easy when you are used to them but we shouldn't be introducing these huge ones until people are used to going around the simpler 1 lane versions.. (even those take a while, I have seen people stopping completely before entering despite there being no other cars in the roundabout, going backwards, etc) once there is a significant amount of those located throughout the province, I would be fine with the larger ones. Really, one of these is also needed at the bottom of the Allen but with better pedestrian integration.

[haljackey]

Interesting video arguing why low speed limits are bad

• Video Link[url]

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Interesting video arguing why low speed limits are bad

• Video Link[url]

If it's 30 km/h, often it is for a reason (i.e. very sharp curves, blinding corners, school zone).

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

If it's 30 km/h, often it is for a reason (i.e. very sharp curves, blinding corners, school zone).

I never see a 30 km/h zone ANYWHERE until I moved to BC. Ontario has very few of them.

Sharp Curves, Blind Corners, you should be signing them with advisory speed signs. Speed limit should be set for what's appropriate when you travel on the straight section of roadway.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

I never see a 30 km/h zone ANYWHERE until I moved to BC. Ontario has very few of them.

Sharp Curves, Blind Corners, you should be signing them with advisory speed signs. Speed limit should be set for what's appropriate when you travel on the straight section of roadway.

Ontario's Highway Traffic Act was amended maybe a decade ago lowering the minimum speed limit from 40km/h to 30km/h. Some minor residential streets in Toronto have a 30km/h limit.

[waterloowarrior]

Speed limits in Canada should be faster on freeways and slower in urban areas. 30km/hr speed limits may not be common in BC are becoming more and more common across the world. A pedestrian hit at 50 km/hr is 5 times more likely to be killed than if hit at 30 km/hr. Data has clearly shown a "sweet spot" in effective speed limits in reducing pedestrian fatalities. This is why big cities like Toronto and Montreal are putting 30 km/hr zones in many of their residential areas.

[Innsertnamehere]

but then cities like Toronto have roads like these, with 60km/h limits:



This is a road with no sidewalks, 2 lanes each way, has interchanges, and is in the middle of the Don Valley (meaning no driveways and no local population) that any sane person would normally assess as a road that would probably be set at 80km/h, that the city keeps artificially low and stakes cops around corners to catch "speeders"

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

but then cities like Toronto have roads like these, with 60km/h limits:
This is a road with no sidewalks, 2 lanes each way, has interchanges, and is in the middle of the Don Valley (meaning no driveways and no local population) that any sane person would normally assess as a road that would probably be set at 80km/h, that the city keeps artificially low and stakes cops around corners to catch "speeders"

see
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/30/...ew-extension-get-slower-all-of-a-sudden/
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2011/te/bgrd/backgroundfile-38851.pdf

[waterloowarrior]

New Ontario government highway data website http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/iCorridor/ lots of interesting highway info... any other provinces with similar sites?

[haljackey]

I would generally agree that lowering speeds on non-arterial roads would be a good thing in most places. Something like:

Arterials- 50-60km/h
Primary collectors- 40-50km/h
Secondary collectors- 30-40 km/h
Crescents/side streets/window streets/other- 30 km/h


...And raising highway speed limits:

-At-grade expressways- 80-90km/h
-Grade-separated expressways- 90-100km/h
-Freeways (urban)- 100-110km/h
-Freeways (suburban)- 110-120km/h
-Freeways (rural)- 120-130km/h

[ssiguy]

BC/AB/SK already have 110km/hour speed limits on freeways in rural areas.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

but then cities like Toronto have roads like these, with 60km/h limits:



This is a road with no sidewalks, 2 lanes each way, has interchanges, and is in the middle of the Don Valley (meaning no driveways and no local population) that any sane person would normally assess as a road that would probably be set at 80km/h, that the city keeps artificially low and stakes cops around corners to catch "speeders"

I agree, that should be set at 80 km/h there.

Yes, speed limits that are lower for pedestrians make good sense in residential areas (i.e. 30 km/h slow zones). But on arterials they should reflect the operational speed and design of the roadway, with consideration to entrances, crossroads and the surrounding community.

A normal suburban arterial would be 60 km/h if commercially developed and 70 km/h if back-fronted. I'd have arterials at 50 normally only if in a residential area with notable pedestrian activity or if it is in a mainstreet setting.