Halifax Active Transportation

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

So you are saying that Halifax shouldn't try to have better transit (like LRT) because it doesn't have these attributes? I think that, at 500,000 people, we should be planning for LRT now, so that as the city grows, it won't be that much more difficult/expensive to implement (we’re already behind where we should be). Right now we're just adding buses to already-crowded roadways (plus ferries, whenever that happens, but that only gets us across waterways, not through the city).

I have to ask, for all the people who say that we can’t or shouldn’t shift from basically car/bus only, what would you plan to do to deal with an ever-increasing car traffic problem? Tear down buildings to make bigger roads? Do nothing and let things continue the way they are? Hope that we experience a population decline so we can go back to the way it used to be? That’s not going to happen… in fact the feds just promised to invest something like $2 billion in the area for military purposes. Our population will continue to grow.

No Mark I am not advocating for tear downs or lack of planning but there is a definite lack of focus for big picture, decades away, where do we want to be, thinking in Halifax. There are a variety of reasons for that as in the three different Nova Scotia's that drive our Politics and resource allocation. The Transportation discussions in the City spend far too much time and definitely Capital on things like Bike lanes which I consider Tinsil on the Christmas tree if you will. The Bike bunch have been very clever dominating the City transportation discussions. They WILL be the protected ones.

The post Covid Boom that followed the Ship building Contract has definitely altered the local and National confidence quotient around here.
Throw in the 15+ Local Familys driving the 40+ Construction cranes over the City and I think Halifax is in a very solid place and is going to go to another level once the River Class really get going after the Irving Shipyard addition. Mr Carney seems to like it here and see's our potential. Now WE just have to see our potential and like a great Golf swing. Follow through.

I think a Tunnel From Pleasant street to Georges Island landing around the Superstore area with Trains and cars should be an option to go along with the Mackay replacement. Designate the Agricola/ Summer st corridor to University Avenue Tram only and enforce it. Were ripping up that chunk of Halifax anyway. Loop it up to Robie to the Audi dealership and South again.
in fifty years put it all underground on the same route.

I know the Engineer that wrote the Commuter Train study and unless Halifax takes over the CN board they WILL NOT SHARE . Forever. So that's out unfortunately. Time to use the Harbour and no we should NOT copy Boston Harbours Private uber on the Rush hour waters plan. Build or copy what works and stop trying the Vanity tech demonstration while chasing Fed dollars. Buy what works and quit dicking around. Paralysis by analysis has to stop.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

No Mark I am not advocating for tear downs or lack of planning but there is a definite lack of focus for big picture, decades away, where do we want to be, thinking in Halifax. There are a variety of reasons for that as in the three different Nova Scotia's that drive our Politics and resource allocation. The Transportation discussions in the City spend far too much time and definitely Capital on things like Bike lanes which I consider Tinsil on the Christmas tree if you will. The Bike bunch have been very clever dominating the City transportation discussions. They WILL be the protected ones.

I see this differently: it's not so much bike-lane advocates who dominate these discussions, but bike-lane opponents who continually attempt to quash or rework or otherwise litigate existing plans, forcing this bike-lanes-yay-or-nay discussion to happen over and over and over again. There's no other civic infrastructure I can think of whose proponents have to so constantly and vigilantly defend its merits.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I see this differently: it's not so much bike-lane advocates who dominate these discussions, but bike-lane opponents who continually attempt to quash or rework or otherwise litigate existing plans, forcing this bike-lanes-yay-or-nay discussion to happen over and over and over again. There's no other civic infrastructure I can think of whose proponents have to so constantly and vigilantly defend its merits.

Not so. It is only because HRM does nothing other than bike lanes in recent years on the transportation front apart from buying more bus equipment to sit in traffic on our clogged streets. Those streets are clogged both because of uncontrolled growth but also due to the largely empty bike lanes removing road capacity for other modes. The insane focus by successive councils on cycling as a viable solution is beyond any rational person's comprehension. We need a revamp of the infrastructure used by trucks, buses and vehicles, not the very small fringe group of cyclists. However the great bike lane debate acts as a convenient smokescreen for successive councils to pretend they are actually doing something, when in reality they are the problem.

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Not so. It is only because HRM does nothing other than bike lanes in recent years on the transportation front apart from buying more bus equipment to sit in traffic on our clogged streets. Those streets are clogged both because of uncontrolled growth but also due to the largely empty bike lanes removing road capacity for other modes. The insane focus by successive councils on cycling as a viable solution is beyond any rational person's comprehension. We need a revamp of the infrastructure used by trucks, buses and vehicles, not the very small fringe group of cyclists. However the great bike lane debate acts as a convenient smokescreen for successive councils to pretend they are actually doing something, when in reality they are the problem.

Cats, bike lanes, and the Forum. HRM city council loves a good distraction from their failure to do anything productive. HRM City Council should be called HRM City Quagmire instead.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

No Mark I am not advocating for tear downs or lack of planning but there is a definite lack of focus for big picture, decades away, where do we want to be, thinking in Halifax. There are a variety of reasons for that as in the three different Nova Scotia's that drive our Politics and resource allocation. The Transportation discussions in the City spend far too much time and definitely Capital on things like Bike lanes which I consider Tinsil on the Christmas tree if you will. The Bike bunch have been very clever dominating the City transportation discussions. They WILL be the protected ones.

The post Covid Boom that followed the Ship building Contract has definitely altered the local and National confidence quotient around here.
Throw in the 15+ Local Familys driving the 40+ Construction cranes over the City and I think Halifax is in a very solid place and is going to go to another level once the River Class really get going after the Irving Shipyard addition. Mr Carney seems to like it here and see's our potential. Now WE just have to see our potential and like a great Golf swing. Follow through.

I think a Tunnel From Pleasant street to Georges Island landing around the Superstore area with Trains and cars should be an option to go along with the Mackay replacement. Designate the Agricola/ Summer st corridor to University Avenue Tram only and enforce it. Were ripping up that chunk of Halifax anyway. Loop it up to Robie to the Audi dealership and South again.
in fifty years put it all underground on the same route.

I know the Engineer that wrote the Commuter Train study and unless Halifax takes over the CN board they WILL NOT SHARE . Forever. So that's out unfortunately. Time to use the Harbour and no we should NOT copy Boston Harbours Private uber on the Rush hour waters plan. Build or copy what works and stop trying the Vanity tech demonstration while chasing Fed dollars. Buy what works and quit dicking around. Paralysis by analysis has to stop.

Then we basically agree on transit. Your previous post sounded like you thought we shouldn't do it because it would be too difficult and expensive and we're not Calgary. I was using them as a population milestone, given that's where we are now, and our layout is much more challenging than theirs for processing a lot of car traffic, and we're already approaching our limitations for traffic flow here. Something has to be done, and every commuter who chooses an alternate method, like transit (or a bike for that matter), is one less single-occupant car on the road. For drivers that's a plus, since it will mean less traffic to contend with, as it is for the individual who chooses an alternate form of transportation.

But for this to work it has to be considered a better option than driving, not a penalty. I agree that council needs to change how it views this stuff and get to work. There seems to be more of a tendency to virtue signal than to actually think big and come up with some ideas that will benefit everybody and actually solve some problems. The feds and province appear to be doing that, and I am gaining confidence that they will move forward and get it done. The City... not so much.

I want good, safe, reliable, efficient transportation for everybody, which is why I support bicycle infrastructure. Painting some lines at the side of the road doesn't do it, as I've personally witnessed many cars (mostly SUVs actually - they seem to attract the worst drivers) literally driving with their right side wheels in the painted bike lanes, with apparent lack of understanding as to why the lines are there. I don't witness people driving up on the curb where there is sidewalk, so they seem to understand the concept of physical barriers. So toss some curb stops down there instead of painted lines and call it a day. It's needed and it doesn't have to be expensive or beautiful.

In my younger days I used to ride my bike on the roads, taking my chances and dicing it out with traffic. There were some numbskulls on the roads back then, but the skill and attention level of drivers in general was much higher than it is today. Now there seems to be a hubris among drivers and they don't seem to be aware of the responsibility they hold when they sit behind the wheels. It's like everybody took stupid pills or had a lobotomy starting about 20 years ago and it has been constantly getting worse since then. We need to get some of those people out of their cars and onto a train, ferry, or bus where they can happily stare at their phones and send/receive texts to their heart's content. My bicycle sits covered in dust because I will not go out on the roads with these people unless I have 3000-plus lbs of steel protecting me. It's as simple as that.

About rail transit. The CN tracks seem to be the low hanging fruit that everybody tends to focus on. However, unless the feds or province step in and forces their hand, it's probably not going to happen. That doesn't mean we should give up, though. A combination of at-grade, buried, and elevated LRT that runs through key traffic centres of the city is what needs to happen. It won't be easy and it won't be cheap, plus it takes decades to do. This is why I say it has to happen now. Drop the virtue signaling and develop a pragmatic, get-it-done attitude and maybe we'll get somewhere. It really makes me wonder if council actually wants a functional city that is a nice place to live. It seems like they think they were voted in to become SJWs instead. Not sure why this continues to happen, TBH.

I agree with your harbour crossing ideas as well. A bridge crossing the Arm in a strategic location would probably help also. The Mackay needs to be done and done right - there was some debate on here whether it needs to be replaced or not (I think it does), but frankly I don't care how they go about it, just do it right and get it done. Build it larger and more robust than currently needed, add capability for separated transit with LRT as a possibility. Add "active transportation" (I hate that term, just call it what it is - bike lanes) capability as well. It all needs to happen, but meanwhile everybody is debating on what is the best way to do it, who we should and shouldn't offend, etc. The lack of action has been tiresome, and now it's to the point of being harmful. I'll repeat: Get it done.

My apologies for the wordiness. I know some folks are sensitive about this.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Summerville

Cats, bike lanes, and the Forum. HRM city council loves a good distraction from their failure to do anything productive. HRM City Council should be called HRM City Quagmire instead.

Bravo!

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Not so. It is only because HRM does nothing other than bike lanes in recent years on the transportation front apart from buying more bus equipment to sit in traffic on our clogged streets.

They're about to spend $180 million on the Windsor Street Exchange. Almost $90 million of that (as much as the entire budget for the proposed bike network, including the Mcdonald Bridge flyover) is coming from HRM. That hardly seems like "nothing".

And to be clear, I'm not saying the WSE shouldn't be done - just that people seem to be very selective about what they see HRM spending money on.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

They're about to spend $180 million on the Windsor Street Exchange. Almost $90 million of that (as much as the entire budget for the proposed bike network, including the Mcdonald Bridge flyover) is coming from HRM. That hardly seems like "nothing".

And to be clear, I'm not saying the WSE shouldn't be done - just that people seem to be very selective about what they see HRM spending money on.

Yet the first announcement about this project was in 2019. I know the Trudeau Government had a habit of re announcing Fed investments as the announcement always pleased the base but delivering? A certain Fed MP by the name of Fillmore was at that announcement.

How much bike lane infrastructure has been built since 2019? The only real change in Road infrastructure has been the 107 extension which I have used many times to skirt Halifax streets while going to work. I have taken the Portland Hills based Bus to visit DT while going out to Dinner many times. I am not anti other modes of transportation. I spent five years in Ottawa so I have experienced great Bus networks .The City and Canada for that matter is now living with the aftermath of the Trudeau lost decade. Time to break some rice bowls and hearts and get Shit done.

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

They're about to spend $180 million on the Windsor Street Exchange. Almost $90 million of that (as much as the entire budget for the proposed bike network, including the Mcdonald Bridge flyover) is coming from HRM. That hardly seems like "nothing".

And to be clear, I'm not saying the WSE shouldn't be done - just that people seem to be very selective about what they see HRM spending money on.

The only reason why Council pulled the trigger on the WSE was because either (a) the Fed was prepared to walk away from committing funding to it; and/or (b) the Province would have forced them to. Otherwise, Council would have continued to sit on it for another decade.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

They're about to spend $180 million on the Windsor Street Exchange. Almost $90 million of that (as much as the entire budget for the proposed bike network, including the Mcdonald Bridge flyover) is coming from HRM. That hardly seems like "nothing".

And to be clear, I'm not saying the WSE shouldn't be done - just that people seem to be very selective about what they see HRM spending money on.

It seems pretty obvious that major transportation investments are needed and these would be projects paid for by 3 levels of government on a scale far beyond the bike network costs. So the bike network isn't really blocking anything, and the cost-benefit will be positive even if it only amounts to a small percent of total trips.

The most important political dynamic seems to be the province taking on transportation in the metro area (highways, bridges, blocking the BRT plan and saying they will look at transit) but proceeding slowly. Hopefully doing meaningful planning work but we haven't seen results yet. FWIW, I do question if HRM could manage major transit expansion without the province.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I want good, safe, reliable, efficient transportation for everybody, which is why I support bicycle infrastructure. Painting some lines at the side of the road doesn't do it, as I've personally witnessed many cars (mostly SUVs actually - they seem to attract the worst drivers) literally driving with their right side wheels in the painted bike lanes, with apparent lack of understanding as to why the lines are there. I don't witness people driving up on the curb where there is sidewalk, so they seem to understand the concept of physical barriers. So toss some curb stops down there instead of painted lines and call it a day. It's needed and it doesn't have to be expensive or beautiful.

My apologies for the wordiness. I know some folks are sensitive about this.

Wordiness removed.

I don't drive a SUV, but I always put my right side wheels in the painted bike lanes because there is never anyone in them and they tend to have fewer potholes this time of year than the streets themselves. Might as well make some good use of them.

[ArchAficionado]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Not so. It is only because HRM does nothing other than bike lanes in recent years on the transportation front apart from buying more bus equipment to sit in traffic on our clogged streets. Those streets are clogged both because of uncontrolled growth but also due to the largely empty bike lanes removing road capacity for other modes. The insane focus by successive councils on cycling as a viable solution is beyond any rational person's comprehension. We need a revamp of the infrastructure used by trucks, buses and vehicles, not the very small fringe group of cyclists. However the great bike lane debate acts as a convenient smokescreen for successive councils to pretend they are actually doing something, when in reality they are the problem.

The streets are not clogged due to bike lanes. Additional road capacity does not reduce traffic in the long run; providing viable alternative to car trips does. And I'm sure we can agree that for most trips in most parts of the city, this means trains and busses, not bikes. But there also aren't bike lanes in most of the city, just in the downtown areas, where cycling is a reasonable means of transportation.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I always put my right side wheels in the painted bike lanes because there is never anyone in them and they tend to have fewer potholes this time of year than the streets themselves. Might as well make some good use of them.

Afraid to drive in roundabouts. Check.

Has trouble navigating around bus lanes. Check.

Regularly drives in bike lanes. Check.

Suspicions confirmed. Target candidate to get out of car and onto transit.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ArchAficionado

The streets are not clogged due to bike lanes. Additional road capacity does not reduce traffic in the long run; providing viable alternative to car trips does. And I'm sure we can agree that for most trips in most parts of the city, this means trains and busses, not bikes. But there also aren't bike lanes in most of the city, just in the downtown areas, where cycling is a reasonable means of transportation.

I got caught in a traffic jam on the 102 last week. Darn bike lanes!

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I got caught in a traffic jam on the 102 last week. Darn bike lanes!

Exactly. The millions wasted on bike lanes could have been spent adding capacity to the 102.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Exactly. The millions wasted on bike lanes could have been spent adding capacity to the 102.

Touche

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Exactly. The millions wasted on bike lanes could have been spent adding capacity to the 102.

This is happening at the same time that bike lanes are being added. Guess we can afford to do both. Who knew???

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Touche

Really?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This is happening at the same time that bike lanes are being added. Guess we can afford to do both. Who knew???

No, we can’t. The huge HRM tax increase just approved should be a bit of a clue.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No, we can’t. The huge HRM tax increase just approved should be a bit of a clue.

This is becoming monotonous. Where have you been for the past decade? Prices have spiked post-covid, and more recently in relation to the economic war (and conventional wars) created by the country to the south of us. You expected taxes to stay the same in light of literally everything becoming more expensive?

And yes, these things are being built simultaneously. Can we move on now?