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  #1941  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2018, 11:11 PM
LeadingEdgeBoomer LeadingEdgeBoomer is offline
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Originally Posted by movebyleap View Post
Not sure if I understand correctly, but this prime downtown land will be occupied by THREE sports arenas and affordable housing?
That is a gross misrepresentation of what the Rendevous Lebreton proposal is.

Perhaps it is time to remind ourselves what the elements of this $3 Billion are.



http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...up-aims-to-light-up-long-neglected-flats
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  #1942  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2018, 12:19 AM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by movebyleap View Post
Not sure if I understand correctly, but this prime downtown land will be occupied by THREE sports arenas and affordable housing?
From the renderings it looks like the Abilities Centre and Sensplex are in the same building so it's more like two arena buildings.
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  #1943  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2018, 3:18 AM
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Until we see a shovel with Sens logo, these are only baby steps on LeBreton

Kelly Egan, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 25, 2018 | Last Updated: January 25, 2018 7:01 PM EST


It is the giant green light LeBreton Flats has been waiting for, we are told, but for all the flashing yellows in my head.

And so it was a surprisingly joyless act of city-building at NCC headquarters on Thursday morning, over in less than half an hour, with no cake or popping corks.

At the precise moment, there was so little applause in the NCC board room, it sounded like three people tapping snow off their Sorels. Eugene Melnyk, rarely lost for words, was there but said nothing.

Out in the corridor afterwards, John Ruddy, the other project kingpin, told reporters “So, there you have it, right? This is a great next step of many future steps,” but it sounded more like a question than a conclusion — a quiz pass, not the final exam.

Was this not a great breakthrough of historical proportions, 60 years in the making, the start of a transformation of the western edge of downtown? Where is its champion, today or during the long horizon until pucks are dropped? We shall see who emerges, and when, but it seemed the reaction was restrained and tentative, as though the wheels still hold some wobble.

Mayor Jim Watson, also an NCC board member, provided some insight, maybe inadvertently.

“I have lots of ideas on how this thing can be derailed but I don’t want to share them because I want the thing to succeed. We’ve waited 50 to 60 years to get something on that site.”

Maybe I’m a little jaded on LeBreton, like the rest of the city, but until I see Melnyk or his stand-in driving a backhoe and starting to dig a giant hole in the ground, part of me is still skeptical the downtown arena will ever happen.

Aside from the confirmation of an agreement in principle on the $4-billion project, a couple of important developments came to the forefront at a meeting of NCC commissioners.

Firstly, the Canadian taxpayer is basically going to eat the cost of the site cleanup, which must be a great relief to the RendezVous LeBreton group. “The parties have agreed on a fair market value for the land, net of remediation costs,” is how the NCC explained the “highlight.”

In other words, if the 49 acres in question are worth $100 million and the cleanup costs $50 million (for argument’s sake), then the NCC nets only $50 million. Nice deal for RendezVous, which can now deduct the cost of all the booby-traps it will find in remediating the soil on the site, said to be seriously contaminated from decades of dirty industry.

Secondly, the NCC, a Crown corporation with committees all over the place, has signalled a time frame in which it will essentially get out of the way and let the private sector get some dirt moving. The land “conveyance” is to occur in the 2019-20 window, or in 12 to 24 months.

Having a plan to get government “out of the way” is critically important to speed things along. Think of it. It took nearly two full years (from April 2016) to arrive at a point where an agreement in principle with a private consortium was ready to sign. Two years? And it needs to be said that the “master development agreement” is still months away from being ready. Just guessing here, but “hurry the hell up” is probably not Chapter 1 in the government handbook. (The NCC said it held 40 meetings and 120 hours of talks.)

Thirdly, it becomes pretty clear the NCC is more interested in the “public realm” aspect of the project than, say, housing, of which the Flats is supposed to have plenty, fulfilling a long-held promise rooted in the destruction of a lower-class neighbourhood in the 1960s.

Phase 1 was given a time frame of 2018 to 2032, while Phase 2, on the western part of the Flats, was slotted into 2032 to 2036, a stretch during which only some of us will be alive.

And now that we are down to one proponent, why must all the details be kept secret? What does the agreement in principle say? What is the “fair market price” the parties have agreed to?

NCC chair Marc Seaman said the board spent four hours Wednesday on the LeBreton file, privately going through the history and discussing the current agreement. Four hours? And what does the public get? Four paragraphs of highlights.

At face value, it is a momentous step, one that may lead to fundamental changes in how the capital lives, works and plays. But, behind the curtain, there are nerves in the wings, surely.

To contact Kelly Egan, please call 613-726-5896 or email [email protected]
Twitter.com/kellyegancolumn


http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columni...th-sens-logo-only-baby-steps-on-lebreton
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  #1944  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2018, 3:15 PM
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Garrioch: Opening Night for a Sens downtown arena could happen in October 2022



BRUCE GARRIOCH
Published on: January 25, 2018 | Last Updated: January 25, 2018 6:27 PM EST


Don’t start making your plans to take the LRT to Ottawa’s new downtown arena at LeBreton Flats just yet.

It’s going to be awhile.

It’s good news the RendezVous LeBreton Group — led by Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk and John Ruddy of Trinity Developments — have now received the green light to finalize an agreement at LeBreton, but it’s going be another 12 to 18 months before the deal is completely papered.

Then, plans can begin to put shovels in the ground.

That means the cleanup of the land won’t begin until midway through 2019, in a best-case scenario. An 18,500*-seat arena — which is in the first phase of the project — could be completed in three years. That means, if all goes well, that Opening Night could be in October 2022.


But you have to think that with the the way wheels of government work, patience will be a virtue with this project.

Ruddy is aware of the difficulties and hurdles after being a key part of the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group’s redevelopment of Lansdowne Park. That was on a smaller scale and took seven years to get completed but he noted the Province of Ontario has changed the appeal process for large projects.

“Once you have municipal approval, there’s no appeal process, so that’s a significant change and that will result in less delays than we had at Lansdowne,” Ruddy said. “It’s a different situation here; it’s one where there’s a unanimous commitment from the major stakeholders who want to move this forward.”

Ruddy said talks to get everything in place will continue, but he feels putting the shovels in the ground midway through 2019 is realistic.

“It’s an ongoing process and we’re working (to get those done). There’s many aspects to the project, including getting entitlements from the city, and we’ve been working with them on an ongoing basis,” Ruddy said.

“Financing, we’re working on, and we weren’t able to include our arrangements because we only just concluded the deal structure with the NCC this past December, so we had have that in place. From that, we can move forward on this with the other parts of the project.”

The good news is the Senators and their faithful can start thinking about a downtown arena, because it’s taken a major step closer to becoming reality.

[email protected]

Twitter.com/sungarrioch
http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/n...wcm/f0067872-e6ed-49f3-8fa6-093c5f1bdabb

* Plans are actually for 18,000 seats currently.

I think 2022 is a little optimistic. If I were to guess, I would say 2023, which would work out well as it would coincide with the full roll out of the Stage 2 O-Train expansion (60 km, 41 stations).
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  #1945  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 3:36 AM
movebyleap movebyleap is offline
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Are those all 27 floor towers behind the rink?
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  #1946  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:07 AM
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Here are better views showing variation in height.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/public-feedback-lebreton-flats-bids-1.3559261


https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/loption-illumination-lebreton-a84825cb53e2588798a351fd07235661

With much taller buildings that have been approved (or pretty much approved) at Bayview after the initial proposal was presented, I expect RVL will be applying for more height than originally planned, likely resulting in more variation.

Even if it's built as is, it's still better than what we currently have downtown and along Rideau.
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  #1947  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 12:56 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
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"We’ve waited 50 to 60 years to get something on that site."
-- Why?
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  #1948  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 1:47 PM
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Why it took 50-60 years to get something on the site?
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  #1949  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 3:08 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Question. Are there any parts of Rendezvous Lebreton's vision that you hope are changed in the final plan?

For me, I'm hoping that they have buildings (condos or office) with retail on the ground floor fronting onto the parkway instead of open space. It would make that stretch of the parkway feel like an actual downtown street. And having monuments and parks on all four corners of the Booth-Sir John A MacDonald Parkway intersection seems like overkill. Or maybe they could keep a bit of the plaza, but aside from that, buildings framing the plaza and along the parkway with retail on the ground floor. The bottom rendering doesn't look like a downtown to me. It has that towers in the park thing going on.



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  #1950  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 3:12 PM
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You're out of luck. In the new agreement, the NCC will be keeping that 4 acre strip along Wellington/Sir John A.
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  #1951  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 3:16 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
You're out of luck. In the new agreement, the NCC will be keeping that 4 acre strip along Wellington/Sir John A.
Damn.
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  #1952  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 5:42 PM
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I know it could be much for the region but could we not only have box tower please ? It looks blend.

Also, what about this project?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=226521
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  #1953  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:31 PM
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Here's a breakdown of the agreement so far (at least what is publicly available):

- The two parties agreed on market value for the land.
Is that 2017 dollars, or what the land will be worth at the time of the sale, who knows. To give us an idea, the City offered $26 million for the Alterna Savings land (1.82 acres) off Lyon 9 years ago. It was refused. Lebreton is 48 acres, served by two O-Train Stations. Do the math.
- Rendezvous will be responsible for the cleanup (logistics, hiring the proper people), but the cost of cleanup will be deduced from the sell price of land ergo, the NCC will be indirectly paying for the site cleanup.
During an interview on TSN 1200 Friday, Kristmanson said 1/3 has already been cleaned up. He would not offer an estimate for the remainder of site cleanup however, when the interviewer brough up reported estimates of $50 million to $300 million, Kristmanson said it would be somewhere on the lower end of those estimates. Listen to full interview here.
- As mentioned above, NCC will be keeping the 4 acre strip of land along Wellington/Sir John A.
No explanation was given, but I figure that since the NCC has already done some work on that strip (Fleck Fountain Park), and RVL was proposing a park anyway, NCC decided to keep it, reducing purchase costs for RVL and Municipal maintenance costs.
- Project reduced from three phases (phase 1 2017-2026, phase 2 2026-2032, phase 3 2036+) to two phases (phase 1 2018-2032, phase 2 2031-2036).

I think that sums it up. If I'm missing anything, let me know.
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  #1954  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Soi-Fon View Post
I know it could be much for the region but could we not only have box tower please ? It looks blend.

Also, what about this project?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=226521
That's just the initial concept for the sake of the competition. They focused more on the business plan, movement through the site, the aqueduct, covering the LRT, securing firm partners than design (other than the arena). DCDLS was all flash with interesting architecture and a dozens of novelty proposals, all of which had nothing more than a letter of intent.

Speaking of which, how long before DCDLS serves the NCC court papers?
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  #1955  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post

Speaking of which, how long before DCDLS serves the NCC court papers?
For what?
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  #1956  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 8:39 PM
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When DCDLS lost, they were threatening legal action because they though the competition wasn't fair, open and transparent. Couldn't figure out how RVL won. They were stating that it's impossible to cover the Confederation Line tracks based on their own analysis (big reason why RVL won). They decided to hold off in case the negotiations with RVL broke down and the NCC was forced to turn to DCDLS.

Last edited by J.OT13; Jan 28, 2018 at 9:09 PM.
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  #1957  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
When DCDLS lost, they were threatening legal action because they though the competition wasn't fair, open and transparent. Couldn't figure out how RVL won. They were stating that it's impossible to cover the Confederation Line tracks based on their own analysis (big reason why RVL won). They decided to hold off in case the negotiations with RVL broke down and the NCC was forced to turn to DCDLS.
To win a lawsuit against the crown you need an error in law. None of these grievances sound like that.

I think Devcore made several mistakes, including treating the process like a student competition (things that would be nifty at the flats) rather than a serious development proposal. It was also weird that they added a bunch of new partners at the last minute without any clarification of their role.
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  #1958  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2018, 11:48 PM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Here's a breakdown of the agreement so far (at least what is publicly available):

- The two parties agreed on market value for the land.
Is that 2017 dollars, or what the land will be worth at the time of the sale, who knows. To give us an idea, the City offered $26 million for the Alterna Savings land (1.82 acres) off Lyon 9 years ago. It was refused. Lebreton is 48 acres, served by two O-Train Stations. Do the math.
- Rendezvous will be responsible for the cleanup (logistics, hiring the proper people), but the cost of cleanup will be deduced from the sell price of land ergo, the NCC will be indirectly paying for the site cleanup.
During an interview on TSN 1200 Friday, Kristmanson said 1/3 has already been cleaned up. He would not offer an estimate for the remainder of site cleanup however, when the interviewer brough up reported estimates of $50 million to $300 million, Kristmanson said it would be somewhere on the lower end of those estimates. Listen to full interview here.
- As mentioned above, NCC will be keeping the 4 acre strip of land along Wellington/Sir John A.
No explanation was given, but I figure that since the NCC has already done some work on that strip (Fleck Fountain Park), and RVL was proposing a park anyway, NCC decided to keep it, reducing purchase costs for RVL and Municipal maintenance costs.
- Project reduced from three phases (phase 1 2017-2026, phase 2 2026-2032, phase 3 2036+) to two phases (phase 1 2018-2032, phase 2 2031-2036).

I think that sums it up. If I'm missing anything, let me know.
Do you know what's supposed to go on the big field behind the holocaust monument?
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  #1959  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinbottawa View Post
Do you know what's supposed to go on the big field behind the holocaust monument?
I believe that site is reserved for another "significant federal institution".
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  #1960  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2018, 4:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinbottawa View Post
Question. Are there any parts of Rendezvous Lebreton's vision that you hope are changed in the final plan?

For me, I'm hoping that they have buildings (condos or office) with retail on the ground floor fronting onto the parkway instead of open space.
From the spatial configuration, it obvious like they want to preserve a view to Parliament Hill from the arena. It's likely the facility will have some convention/trade show functions and having a visual connection from the large windows to Parliament provides a tangible context to the National Capital compared to being just hemmed in by buildings.

What I would like to see established in the site's concept along with the Trinity Centre at Bayview is a intuitive diagonal pedestrian axis that reconnects the two halves of Wellington. Downtown —> LeBreton —> Hintonburg —> Westboro should be made as "walkably" contiguous as the Rideau—Montreal Road axis
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