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  #1941  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 4:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
This is why I don't like stucco. I am a hipster () and stucco is used as an excuse and a cheat nowadays. I have seen nice stucco buildings. Pure Spanish Revival in stucco generally looks nice. Historic stucco buildings generally look nice. Sometimes, modern buildings using clean, smooth, stucco sparingly even look nice. However, 99% of buildings going up in L.A. use stucco in a poor manner. The worst place for stucco is downtown. Historically, downtown is built with stone and terrecotta. When stucco is placed next to these much more expensive materials, it looks cheap and out of place, even when done in a way that would look nice in another place. Yes, stucco has the capability to look nice, but when it comes to downtown, keep it out.
I pretty much agree with everything you say. I definitely think stucco plays better on low and mid rise bldgs designed for residential. And I agree its most likely out of place downtown. When I was in LA, they weren't, to my knowledge, putting stucco on DTLA bldgs. To me, stucco in LA is like the overuse of reflective glass in cities like Dallas. Too much and it becomes trivialized and unattractive.
     
     
  #1942  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 4:43 AM
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Originally Posted by citywatch View Post
the owner not only covered his bldg in stucco but he was too cheap to paint it with more than one color. the use of a highlight color at least wouldn't have made it look so bad.
I think the worst part of that redo is the multi lite windows he used. Aluminum frame windows don't work well with stucco. Solid windows would have been better.

Hower, if it had been my building, I would have kept it simple and worked with the existing exterior. But frankly, IMO, it isn't much of a bldg either before or after.

But why would you think that an owner of Hooters would have good taste? People who have bad taste have a right to express themselves!
     
     
  #1943  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 4:53 AM
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[QUOTE=citywatch;5373793]I think what got the hood----& LA in general----off on the wrong foot was that alot of it was never built for ppl with $$ in the first place. I've seen old pics of what's now known as south pk (where the bldg in my post above is located) from back in the early 1900s. it looked mostly frazzled & downscale even back then. [QUOTE]

Back in the 1900s, as I understand it, Broadway and Bunker Hill were the more upscale areas of DTLA. All the major dept stores were on Broadway and the rich lived on Bunker Hill.

But frankly, I don't think LA was ever a SF or Paris. Its always been a hodge podge of beautiful and ugly; cheap and expensive; gaudy and sorta good taste. Its that kind of city. Its pretty unique in that regard.

And I don't think that will ever change......LA people like to experiment and play around.....stretch the limits. The architecture reflects that attitude.
     
     
  #1944  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 5:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Muji View Post
Downtown gets its newest coffee shop with Groundfloor Cafe, which is now fully open as of this afternoon. It takes up a pretty small corner of the Ground Floor Gallery, and most of its seating is outside. It's a nice space, and it'll only get better once Spring Street Park opens up across the street.

I like it. Its simple and clean........very LA looking. Those open entryways help to pull people in.
     
     
  #1945  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 5:45 AM
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The blog was talking about the hooters bldg..........how it went from nothing to just plain ugly. I thought I post an example of bland building in Buffalo, NY that was made into a cool apt bldg.

Here's the before:



And here's the after with the berm in front removed:

     
     
  #1946  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by alki View Post
The blog was talking about the hooters bldg..........how it went from nothing to just plain ugly. I thought I post an example of bland building in Buffalo, NY that was made into a cool apt bldg.

Here's the before:



And here's the after with the berm in front removed:

I suppose its all about detail. By stuccoing over the brick and only using one color on the Hooters building, they removed detail. In the photo of that (very cool) Buffalo project you posted, they've added detail that wasn't there before.
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  #1947  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 7:21 PM
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Even before the Broadway plan we should be keeping our eyes on the Figueroa Corridor Project. Money has already been allocated to the project and from what I understand if construction is not completed by 2013 those funds will be taken away. Therefore you can bet something will be built by that time.

One part of the project that has received less press is the 11th St Paseo, a pedestrian priority corridor stretching from the planned stadium/events center all the way down to Broadway. The current vision has traffic being reduced to a single one-way lane with the balance of space taken up by extended sidewalks, landscaping, and public spaces.
http://myfigueroa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2011-02_Fig_Public-Meeting-Boards.pdf
wow fantastic! thanks for the good news. i was wondering what was up. i hadn't heard much since the meetings.
     
     
  #1948  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2011, 10:29 PM
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Ftw!!!!!!!!

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  #1949  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 1:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
It does. I'm a little worried, though, that there have been no updates on the project since early March. I know these things take time, but with all the turmoil the CRA has gone through of late, I can never be too sure.

Oh, and JDR Crasher, maybe you can put a Park/Streetscape section in the front page? You could stick in the Civic Park, Spring Street Park, Broadway Streetscape, and this Figueroa Streetscape.
Okay. I'll see if I can get it done tonight.
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  #1950  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 1:45 AM
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If you propose a convention center and football stadium and 24/7 signage, you get downmarket bars and clubs (remember it could be Raiders fans pouring in on Sundays). If you don't mandate building standards, you get what you get.
I still can't figure out why you make a connection between things like LA Live, convention ctrs/new stadiums & low class devlpt. If one leads to the other, than I guess the hood's mass of old, very downmkt & rundown bldgs is due to alot of crowd pleasing devlpt created over 50 yrs ago?

as for the owner of the hooters bldg, he did a horrible job in renovating his old structure on Fig. But i don't know if any law, within the context of dtla----& not some new burban hood that comes with rules & regulations that homeowner associations are famous for enforcing----could have prevented what he did. however, the bldg is such a stucco mess, that if its tenants don't draw lots of customers & survive beyond a short time, I'd just as soon see the bldg torn down.

when it comes to the Music ctr's plaza, I think its current design is not the reason why it doesn't draw crowds of ppl most of the day, or beyond the hrs when ppl aren't attending an event. So I bet any changes to its design wouldn't alter the basic dynamics of the setting. iow, ppl who don't have a specific reason for being at the Music Ctr will naturally not be hanging out around there.

my only problem with the plaza's design is when they eliminated the reflecting pool that once encircled the statue, which you don't care for. That means when the fountains aren't operating, a big concrete slab remains. A pool of water at least would therefore break up the monotony of the surface in that part of the plaza.

if you want to know what I consider the BIGGEST problem with the location, or the BIGGEST thing that puts a damper on ppl wanting to be around there, I'd say it's when they walk past the music ctr's plaza towards 1st & grand & look out over this......


maps.google.com


^ a huge gap that's been there for over 40 yrs. Nothing but a big, uninteresting fugly parking structure & some surface lots further east. And another big gap even further east where the new federal courthouse was going to be built.

When there was talk a few yrs ago that the lot at 1st & grand finally was going to be torn down to make way for the start of work on the Grand ave proj, that alone was good news. but here it is past the halfway mark of 2011 & the big gap remains.
     
     
  #1951  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 5:08 AM
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music center plaza isn't bad in its own right, but like others pointed out it suffers from being on the edge of things at one end and surface parking lots on another. i was excited about the grand avenue park because it would do wonders for the music center having it bookend the park at the eastern end, but even the grand avenue park itself is already a failure. no one is gonna know its there. at least pershing square is only walled off by parking ramps and not ugly 60s government buildings. and you have broadway, spring and hill effectively destroying any sense of a 'grand' park

and i'm loving those streetscaping projects for broadway and figueroa. we need more stuff at a ground level like that and less city-subsidized fugly megaprojects for the rich like the grand ave tower and the ritz carlton
     
     
  #1952  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 6:05 AM
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Originally Posted by all of the trash View Post
music center plaza isn't bad in its own right, but like others pointed out it suffers from being on the edge of things at one end and surface parking lots on another. i was excited about the grand avenue park because it would do wonders for the music center having it bookend the park at the eastern end, but even the grand avenue park itself is already a failure. no one is gonna know its there. at least pershing square is only walled off by parking ramps and not ugly 60s government buildings. and you have broadway, spring and hill effectively destroying any sense of a 'grand' park

and i'm loving those streetscaping projects for broadway and figueroa. we need more stuff at a ground level like that and less city-subsidized fugly megaprojects for the rich like the grand ave tower and the ritz carlton
City subsidized fugly megaprojects for the rich? What's wrong about appealing to wealthy people? Just because they have money does not make them Satan's spawn. Hell, Downtown could be considered 'the rich' Median income of a downtown resident is $97,000, remember?

Moreover, I hardly think that the Grand Avenue park is a failure. People will know it's there. Word moves quick around downtown. It's what happens in a dense community. When that sucker opens, 50,000 people will know it's there. New green space in a community that lacks green space will not go underutilized. I'm sure it will do fine. And how does Broadway, Hill, and Spring destroy the sense of a grand park? Because they wall it off? In my experience, the best parks ARE the parks that are surrounded by high rises. Bryant Park, Millennium Park. Both are urban parks, and both are great.
     
     
  #1953  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 7:05 AM
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Originally Posted by all of the trash View Post
music center plaza isn't bad in its own right, but like others pointed out it suffers from being on the edge of things at one end and surface parking lots on another. i was excited about the grand avenue park because it would do wonders for the music center having it bookend the park at the eastern end, but even the grand avenue park itself is already a failure. no one is gonna know its there. at least pershing square is only walled off by parking ramps and not ugly 60s government buildings. and you have broadway, spring and hill effectively destroying any sense of a 'grand' park

and i'm loving those streetscaping projects for broadway and figueroa. we need more stuff at a ground level like that and less city-subsidized fugly megaprojects for the rich like the grand ave tower and the ritz carlton
Sorry bro, but some of these "city-subsidized megaprojects for the rich..." are not bad. Who says the Ritz Carlton is ugly? I love seeing that new 54 story glass tower in South Park from a distance.

Wasn't Times Square subsidized? So was Millenium Park in Chicago? Or Pier 49 in San Francisco? I hope you hate those areas as much as the thousands of toursits who visit those places each day..............
     
     
  #1954  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 8:47 AM
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Times Square was mostly subsidized by Disney, but I don't see anything too fugly about the Ritz tower. I do think that the Ground Floor Gallery front is nice but not really groundbreaking, and as much as I like trees I think that the ficus population around downtown needs to be looked at again seriously.
The Grand Avenue project was a failure by design because it's heavy on concrete and leaves the elderly County buildings in place.
. And what is this with the commentary on wooden apartment structures of 3 to 5 stories?
     
     
  #1955  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 3:36 PM
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From the Los Angeles Times:

Los Angeles helps the wealthy but not the little guy

Columnist's tour of L.A. Live area and nearby neighborhoods shows the increasing contrast between Los Angeles' haves and have-nots.


The Ritz-Carlton can be seen behind low-income housing along 10th Place in Los Angeles. (Michael Robinson Chavez / Los Angeles Times)

By Hector Tobar
August 12, 2011

About a five-minute walk separates the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in downtown L.A. from the old brick tenements on West 10th Place.

At the Ritz-Carlton, $449 plus tax will get you a room with a king-size bed and a bathroom with Italian marble vanities. Pleasant clerks at the front desk promise "beautiful views" of the L.A. cityscape from a room on the 22nd floor or higher.

On West 10th Place, $550 will get you a one-room apartment for a month. The view includes rusty fire escapes on the building across the street, discarded mattresses and the back door of a garment factory.

Approaching one of the residents, I informed him of the room rates over at the nearby Ritz-Carlton, which loomed over us in blue and gray glass.

"Well, I guess it really is cheap here," said Oscar Montiel, a 50-year-old scrap-metal collector and native of the Mexican state of Guerrero.

Talking to Montiel there on 10th Place, amid the still-occupied relics of low-cost housing built in the first half of the last century, I arrived at the sad realization that L.A. is indeed becoming a Third World city.

But it's not the presence of so many people from tropical climes that makes L.A. resemble the underdeveloped regions to the south. It's our increasingly brazen contrasts between wealth and poverty.

In L.A., as in Caracas or Rio de Janeiro, the rich can enjoy views of the poor, puttering safely in the distance.

And we have our elected officials to thank for it.

The Ritz-Carlton is part of a gleaming new entertainment center of Los Angeles that was built thanks to city tax breaks worth hundreds of millions of dollars, as my colleague David Zahniser reported in May.

This week, the L.A. City Council voted to add another expensive jewel to that complex by issuing $275 million in tax-exempt bonds to help make way for a new football stadium.

"Finally: Farmers' Field," several screens proclaimed all at once Wednesday afternoon at L.A. Live.

I made L.A. Live the starting point for my own private walking tour of L.A.'s class divide.

L.A. Live oozes celebrity. Kobe Bryant loomed over me, several stories tall, making a pitch for a Turkish airline. Money can fly out of your wallet at L.A. Live. The more you spend, the more special you feel.

In the lobby of the JW Marriott, bellmen in their smart uniforms reminded me of my father, who funded my college education with a job at a Beverly Hills hotel.

That, of course, is the main argument in favor of public largesse for private interests: It creates jobs. But there was something perverse about seeing our city leaders fall over themselves this week to issue public debt in favor of what is, after all, a profit-making venture. Especially when bulging deficits and economic stagnation are eating away at public education and other services.

I wondered: Will the next generation of hotel workers be able to send their children to the University of California, where my family sent me?

On the other hand, it certainly didn't feel like lean times as I walked through the Marriott's front lot. I admired a parked Aston Martin, and weaved around a couple of purring German luxury vehicles. Then I stepped onto Olympic and headed west.

[...]

Read the rest by clicking this.
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  #1956  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 4:41 PM
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I wondered: Will the next generation of hotel workers be able to send their children to the University of California, where my family sent me?
And I wondered: did this guy not learn at the University of California the difference between city and state budgets? That taxes generated from the customers at the Marriott help fund social programs for those in poverty? That one can build office buildings and hotels AND care about the poor?
     
     
  #1957  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 5:15 PM
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City subsidized fugly megaprojects for the rich? What's wrong about appealing to wealthy people? Just because they have money does not make them Satan's spawn. Hell, Downtown could be considered 'the rich' Median income of a downtown resident is $97,000, remember?

Moreover, I hardly think that the Grand Avenue park is a failure. People will know it's there. Word moves quick around downtown. It's what happens in a dense community. When that sucker opens, 50,000 people will know it's there. New green space in a community that lacks green space will not go underutilized. I'm sure it will do fine. And how does Broadway, Hill, and Spring destroy the sense of a grand park? Because they wall it off? In my experience, the best parks ARE the parks that are surrounded by high rises. Bryant Park, Millennium Park. Both are urban parks, and both are great.
i agree about best parks surrounded by high rises, would have been great to have grand tower and that federal court building that was once proposed line the Grand park rather than the current govt buildings that trap the park and block pedestrian access from 1st. broadway hill and spring cut the park in thirds rather than have one continuous swath of trees and grass. i really like the idea of a largeforest sanctuary to escape the city.

also i didn't say i had a problem with the rich and the rich building their own projects. my issue is when the city gives them tax breaks or subsidies.
     
     
  #1958  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 6:23 PM
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also i didn't say i had a problem with the rich and the rich building their own projects. my issue is when the city gives them tax breaks or subsidies.
Then you have a problem with every city in the world. This is not an LA specific thing......it's a world thing. Every major city in the world has some sort of subsidized development, which allows for further development. Without our tax subsidized LA Live! and Staples Center, you think South Park would now hav Concerto, 717 Olympic, Market Lofts, Ralphs, Watermarke, Bottlerock, Evo, Luma, South, Hooters, iCON, Big Wangs, etc...

Due to some tax subsidizes AEG has received, I moved into downtown LA and I SPEND my money here in downtown LA as a new resident in 2007 compared to another city in LA County.

It's all about investments. Staples Center and LA Live! were smart investments...look at the thousands of people who patronize the restaurants and hotels in the area......we're collecting taxes on them that we wouldn't have without an investment from the City. Famers Field will just bring the City more money in the long run, especially with a more dense and modern Convention Center, which I think will be the most impactful on the community of the $1.2 billion project. We'll see more hotels, restaurants, etc.. all bring in people and give LA, specifically the districts of downtown LA, more tax money.

This is normal recurring business in every city around the world.
     
     
  #1959  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 6:49 PM
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i really like the idea of a largeforest sanctuary to escape the city.
I'd think that most ppl who feel that way probably will choose to live in the burbs or eventually end up there. however, if dtla were like nyc----which is almost overkill when it comes to wall to wall highrise devlpt & just about too much congestion----then I could understand why some would want a bit of relief. but since dt still has lots of gaps & deadzones, & isn't a fraction as jam packed & overdone with towers as cities like NYC or hong kong, I can't relate to those who think adding more parks or redoing the way a park is designed will be a magic elixir.

the new civic ctr park, just by finally getting rid of the parking lot directly west of city hall, already represents a big improvement to the hood. I'm just disappointed the plans didn't stretch beyond that lot to include the adjoining site of the former state bldg.

for those who think a park space that is very easy to see----on all sides---very green & very inviting will necessarily attract crowds of ppl, I'll point out this park, which is just a block or so west of the gold line, in a major part of pasadena....



maps.google.com


maps.google.com


the first shot is the park from the SW side, the 2nd shot is from the NW side. It's on a fairly large amt of land.

I went by that park not long ago, which interestingly enough is known as Central Park. As I was driving by it with a friend who lives in pasadena, she commented that for such a nice park, it often wasn't very busy most hours of most days. It appears that google's cam flashed by the park on a typical day, typical hour. btw, the park is just a few blocks south of old town pasadena, & most of the areas surrounding it are rather urban. So it's not like pasadena's central park is in the middle of a quiet burb.
     
     
  #1960  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2011, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
By Hector Tobar

In L.A., as in Caracas or Rio de Janeiro, the rich can enjoy views of the poor, puttering safely in the distance.
How about detroit? in that city just about EVERYONE & EVERYTHING is poor. so I guess because the level of equality there is higher, in which misery & decline are uniform & extend from one end to the other, that town would be more pleasing to hector tobar? But as the saying goes, misery loves company.

btw, hector does have a reason to start looking over his shoulder nervously. I read that the LA times is starting to layoff even more ppl right now, & it has been running in the red for several yrs. Perhaps Tobar can seek a new career in a city like detroit?
     
     
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