Winnipeg Retail

[bomberjet]

I'm sure someone will swing in and scoop up that Polo Target store. I've seen that style of building a number of times in other cities. Lots of times it's Walmart, with parking below the 2nd level store.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'm sure someone will swing in and scoop up that Polo Target store. I've seen that style of building a number of times in other cities. Lots of times it's Walmart, with parking below the 2nd level store.

I wonder if it will end up housing a company that might not have otherwise bothered coming to Winnipeg? I can see someone like Nordstrom Rack or Simons not wanting to bother with the expense of a new building when they are moving into a bigger, wealthier markets... but with a nice new building just sitting there, perhaps the balance tips in favour of coming here.

Here is a list of things I would not like to see taking over the Target store at Polo Park:
-Dollarama
-Part Source
-Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries head office
-Value Village
-Giant Tiger
-World's largest Tim Hortons

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

I wonder if it will end up housing a company that might not have otherwise bothered coming to Winnipeg? I can see someone like Nordstrom Rack or Simons not wanting to bother with the expense of a new building when they are moving into a bigger, wealthier markets... but with a nice new building just sitting there, perhaps the balance tips in favour of coming here.

There's no question that real estate is a large expense associated with retail, but it's not enough to tip the balance where profitability and market suitability are concerned. I think why these stores have so far avoided the Winnipeg marketplace has more to do with our buying habits and demographics than the risk associated with getting the real estate ready for game day.

But who knows, maybe I'm completely off-base. It would just be very surprising to see a company like Nordstrom who avoided Canada even in our flushest economic times decide that a busted oil bubble, increasing personal debt, and declining real estate values was a good time to make that market entree...

[Simplicity]

Fantastic stuff from CoryB in that last post.

Not that I'm the arbiter of what's good around here, but that was a solid breakdown of the numerous retail entities that could even be considered a fit.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

There's no question that real estate is a large expense associated with retail, but it's not enough to tip the balance where profitability and market suitability are concerned. I think why these stores have so far avoided the Winnipeg marketplace has more to do with our buying habits and demographics than the risk associated with getting the real estate ready for game day.

But who knows, maybe I'm completely off-base. It would just be very surprising to see a company like Nordstrom who avoided Canada even in our flushest economic times decide that a busted oil bubble, increasing personal debt, and declining real estate values was a good time to make that market entree...

Fair points all. I'm just envisioning a scenario where a so-so market that might not have been appealing 3 years ago when there weren't really many desirable locations might suddenly become a bit more interested if they can get a good lease deal. Just spitballing here, but a reasonable lease can help to offset sales that are marginally lower, but of course that assumes that the fundamentals are at least reasonably in check.

But as you pointed out, the timing isn't necessarily great. It suddenly feels like 1989 all over again so far as the local retail market is concerned.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Fair points all. I'm just envisioning a scenario where a so-so market that might not have been appealing 3 years ago when there weren't really many desirable locations might suddenly become a bit more interested if they can get a good lease deal. Just spitballing here, but a reasonable lease can help to offset sales that are marginally lower, but of course that assumes that the fundamentals are at least reasonably in check.

Shindico will definitely be highly motivated to land someone for the Polo Park site.

Winnipeg is on the target list to eventually get the following stores: Bass Pro Shop, Whole Foods, Simons, Nordstroms (like a Nordstroms Rack), 5th Ave (likely Off 5th or the current HBC Outlet) and in theory a HR2 (Holt Renfrew's discount chain) although that is likely the last to come due to their history here.

Of those, I do not know a lot about Bass Pro Shop's current expansion plans. The rest of that list is carefully managing their rollouts with very limited store openings. It would definitely be surprising to see any of those suddenly change their own course to grab a significant number of Target leases.

[esquire]

^ Knowing this city and the fact that even Safeway is seen by many as an extravagant place to shop, I cannot see Whole Foods doing well here. This is no criticism of the city either... I've been to Whole Foods several times in the US, and the place seems preposterous. It's like the Lululemon of the food world... for people who pay $120 for what basically amounts to a pair of leggings, there is Whole Foods where they can also pay $14 for a couple of pork chops or $8 for a bottle of juice. Winnipeggers have more common sense than that!

I can see one or two of the Rack/Off 5th/HR2 coming here in lieu of a top-line version of those retailers. Bass Pro Shops seems inevitable. Simons seems likely too, but probably not until they spread out to the biggest cities first.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by esquire

I cannot see Whole Foods doing well here.

Haha, that made me think of this.

https://medium.com/culture-club/amer...e-d778c31aa9be

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Haha, that made me think of this.

https://medium.com/culture-club/amer...e-d778c31aa9be

See, there you go. Not enough shitheads to support it

But seriously, a couple of visits were enough for me. The experience is generally pleasant but the cost is ridiculous... you could eat out for what Whole Foods charges for basics.

[rkspec]

Just turn the target on st.james into a water park

[cllew]

I was at the Target at Polo Park on Sunday just to see the store before it closes down.

While they have signs all over the entry doors saying the liquidation has not started, it looks like they won't have much to move out of there when it starts.

For what I though was suppose to be the signature Target store in Winnipeg it was not much better stocked than the one by where I live at KP. Aisle upon aisle of empty stock shelves and more staff in the store than customers.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by cllew

For what I though was suppose to be the signature Target store in Winnipeg it was not much better stocked than the one by where I live at KP. Aisle upon aisle of empty stock shelves and more staff in the store than customers.

Agreed... I only went to the Polo Park location once. I was surprised at how little it differed from the other locations.

Interesting that the rumours are pointing to a very quick shutdown for Target. Contrast with Zellers and Eatons which seemed to drag out overy many months.

[Authentic_City]

The one time I was at the Polo Park Target, I thought it was a nice store, similar in concept to but nicer than Walmart. For what it's worth, the last time I was at Walmart I was struck by the poorly stocked shelves in some areas and the large number of pallets of stock clogging up the aisles waiting to be unpacked.

Also, it struck me that landing aircraft were very loud in Target, whereas I have never noticed noise from landing jets in any of the other area box stores or Polo Park.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

The one time I was at the Polo Park Target, I thought it was a nice store, similar in concept to but nicer than Walmart. For what it's worth, the last time I was at Walmart I was struck by the poorly stocked shelves in some areas and the large number of pallets of stock clogging up the aisles waiting to be unpacked.

Also, it struck me that landing aircraft were very loud in Target, whereas I have never noticed noise from landing jets in any of the other area box stores or Polo Park.

I think the major difference is that Wal-Mart has trouble keeping up with demand, whereas Target was not selling anything.

The Wal-Mart I go to is often out of basic groceries, but from my observation it is because it is that busy.

[tedtim]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

The Wal-Mart I go to is often out of basic groceries, but from my observation it is because it is that busy.

I go to the 24hr McPhillips Walmart, usually between 1am-3am, because of how busy it is during the day. Its even starting to pick up in the early AM. Used to see less than a dozen customers at 3am, but last visit they actually had a line at the one checkout that was open.

[cllew]

Now that I have been in all 4 stores I agree that they look nice compared to Zellers, but they would look better with stock. I was looking at the men's clothes when they first opened and they did not have what I was looking for in large. And to this day the still don't have any large. Either that size sells out fast or it has never come in.

I feel sorry for the pharmacy folks. From what I see its sort of a franchise and they had to put up around $150,000 to open up and then pay a percent of sales to Target.

[CoryB]

While checking Target store sizes last week I was shocked that Polo Park is smaller than Kildonan Place and a similar size to Grant Park. I always thought from the external appearance that it was closer in size to the Super Target in Grand Forks.

In terms of stock liquidation I think Target will move quicker than Zeller's or Eatons. Anything that is routinely stocked and not subject to spoilage could be repurposed to their US operations with a transfer at a smaller write-off on wholesale cost than the liquidators are offering for Canadian operations. Being able to say sell a BBQ through their US stores at a lower cost due to lower wholesale. My thinking is we will see lots of clothing, some food that can't be cancelled and lots of goods ordered to stock the liquidation shelves like was seen when Zeller's was closing.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by cllew

I feel sorry for the pharmacy folks. From what I see its sort of a franchise and they had to put up around $150,000 to open up and then pay a percent of sales to Target.

I think this is something with Manitoba laws around pharmacies. I know Shoppers Drug Mart follows a similar model when the behind the counter operations are effectively a separate store from the merchandise upfront.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I think this is something with Manitoba laws around pharmacies. I know Shoppers Drug Mart follows a similar model when the behind the counter operations are effectively a separate store from the merchandise upfront.

Don't think its just a Manitoba law as on the Target web site there is a section on how to buy a Target Pharmacy franchise.

It looks like Shoppers Drugs operated as a franchise like Canadian Tire. As far as I can see on the Shoppers franchise page the Associate /owner owns and operates the whole store.

[cllew]

there was a list of store sizes in the paper a few days ago and while Polo Park was slightly smaller than KP, I wonder if the retail size may have been the same. They may just have taken the size out of the back stock rooms at Polo Park.