Tempe Development Thread

[HooverDam]

I don't think whats going on in Tempe should be surprising, or necessarily viewed as bad. It seems to be part of the natural cycle of cities

Founded/Historic area-->becomes run down/scary-->urban pioneers/young people make it cool again--->it becomes gentrified/yuppified.

Like Vertex said, I think we'll see a lot of the collegey stuff move towards Apache, especially w/ Light rail opening. Which, should be no surprise, it was initially developed after Mill/downtown Tempe, so its not as far along in the cycle. Its somewhere between steps 2 and 3 right now, and will most likely become gentrified itself, and the Urban pioneers will move on somewhere else. Such is the nature of cities, they're ever changing.

[PhxSprawler]

Good points, HooverDam.

Even though yuppies are moving into downtown Tempe, who was there before? There wasnt much if any housing that was destroyed to make way for the expensive condo's. Tempe did lose some great places, that I will admit, but very few affordable housing units.

The only way you can take the college students out of Tempe is to move the giant University out of Tempe. As long as there are still the bars and nightlife, there will be college students in the area.

One more thing, many of the vacant retail areas (near harkins and Centerpoint) were essentially forced out in anticipation of the demolition and building of Centerpoint on Mill.

[Jsmscaleros]

Excellent points. Cities are ever-changing and developing, but what I would really like to see is some local flair in the mix. I'm hoping that the light rail corridors will spur a lot of local retail and culture. It would also be great to develop something that the city can pride itself on as being unique or actually progressive. The new First Solar headquarters in Tempe might be able to aid in that; it would be awesome to be known as the solar energy capital of the world and it would make a huge step in a good direction for Phoenix.

Speaking of First Solar, I think every new high-rise building in Phoenix should be cladded with window-treatments like that. If you're not sure what it is, it's the new large office-building on the north-side of Tempe Town Lake, across the street from the Marquee Theatre. With buildings absorbing so much heat and direct sunlight, it's kind of stupid really that Phoenix hasn't implemented a requirement for buildings to have some kind of window-treating requirement (another example would be the shades on the Central Library windows). Aside from cutting down the green-house effect (a la, the ridiculous downtown Phoenix courthouse building which functions only as a sweat-box), it would give Phoenix a truly desert-city look that no other place in the country has.

I would also like to take this idea outside of the internet forum community and start petitioning for it if there is enough support. We get plenty of sun in this state to produce energy or innovate in building design and construction, but so far we're not doing anything really but building the same things you see in every American city and completely ignoring the identity of the place we live in. Any thoughts?

[combusean]

I don't think it's fair to say that those that started a city's renewal should be gentrified out--only through the local legend or your own favorite restaurant, bar, retail shop, etc do you truly find the city's soul. For me personally, ... for Tempe, it was probably Gentle Strength, for Phoenix it's been Seamus's, for Chicago it was that Underground Wonder bar with live jazz every night. Growing up in Chandler, it was probably that mini-mall or lingerie store that are long gone by now I bet. Those I don't miss given I'd much take the historic building under them and that downtown Chandler had been a dump for so many years and the new transition is finally welcome.

Downtown Tempe was a dump as well. But it probably xenithed in 2000 right before all the stupid malls opened and everything was completely torn down. I miss Mill's old vibe, with the guy who had the pet python at 5th St I think it was. The frequent minor BS with the kids and TEAM have been replaced with the very real and authoritarian Tempe police who gave even me a hard time after a somewhat heated argument with the bitch at the front counter of the Post Office...evidently they've been having "problems."

Besides the mountain and the Mill, there's not a whole lot left that made Tempe special. Gentle Strength was kinda weird on its own regard but it filled a need. Those Were the Days was overpriced even at the 50% closing sale but it didn't quite matter at that point for a couple old knickknacks. But the youthful element is basically gone besides the hangers on from ASU--nobody is coming from outside the city to downtown Tempe like they are to downtown Scottsdale.

The lakefront developments are still too suburbanized and corporate to impart anything like a Boardwalk feeling, hell, I'd settle for an underbuilt Ocean Drive rather than that crappy pedestrian scale in Hayden Ferry Lakeside. Yes, the next tower will "guide" people into the development but I would still see no reason to do so. They completely missed the natural transition from the mountain to the lake and it's a damn shame.

I am anticipating the Mill's final revival but not so happy they will be moving the old equipment for some of the retail operations. Even then, its proposed use is not something I think downtown Tempe really has an intrinsic need for--gourmet this, wine bar that. Maybe there's some convergence with a significantly older demographic and all the luxury condos, the arts center, then finally the expensive food and beverage that go along with the sort. That was all a given with filling it in with the lake, but in retrospect I think we missed the scale of the impact of the lake itself on Tempe and indeed much of the rest of the Salt River Valley.

Ultimately, if the Salt River weren't totally filled in but maybe converted to something better than the Rio Salado development in South Phoenix, I think Tempe could have sustained a lot of its old vibe. Maybe the full-scale lake was a bit over done--maybe they could have had an area you could sort of walk around in with naturally growing trees in the riverbed rather than everything methodically landscaped at the perimeter but still take a boat down.

On the other hand, the full scale lake is something the other valley cities should have been thinking as well. Ultimately, what was lost out of the lake was enriching the Salt for everybody. That way, you know, a highrise condo with a lakeview wouldn't be exclusive to Tempe. That would have significantly balanced the light rail/lake land rush so maybe Mill Avenue's vibe wouldn't have had to be demolished for its brave new world.

Mill itself will keep most of its original scale with the surrounding 8-story stuff but it will take a concerted effort to keep it at the half-way point between neighborhoods like Boston's Back Bay and SF's Tenderloin rather than slanting significantly toward the former.

Yes, Apache Boulevard does make more sense for the new Tempe given ASU and its associated student ghettos, but it'll take a long time before it's fully realized--as far as Apache finding its soul, even Downtown Phoenix has an edge.

[Jsmscaleros]

you know what it was for me? The hippie drum circle. Never once played with them, but I do miss them. The mounties keep them at bay now.

But hey, what's that matter now that we've got a P.F. Chang's?

[PhxSprawler]

Don't knock PF Changs. Although they are a chain, they are local, much like My Big Fat Greek Restaurant. I love Tempe for the Phoenicia Cafe, Four Peaks, Slices, and Casey Moores, none of which have left. There is also Hippie Gypsy and the new restaurants around the corner.. Chronic Taco and Munchies.

The drum circles have stopped? Was this within the last few weeks?

Things have certainly changed, but I don't think it has been all bad. I once would never walk around on the side of the tracks west of Ash, but the gentrification of the "arts district" there gives it a nice, urban vibe instead of the Nogales feel it had before. There were a couple of hole-in-the-wall bars lost, but I think it is great overall.

The gutter punks are still present and in full force. I have only been in the valley ten years (and visited Tempe several times before that), but I think it is busier and livelier than ever throughout Tempe. The light rail and ever-expanding ASU will only add to it.

I regret losing many of the places I loved in Tempe (Changing Hands, Headquarters, Cluck-U, Long Wong's, etc), but am satisfied with the current vibe (except for the f'ing empty lots!!!!)

Combusean - Brunchies in Chandler is still open along with its neighbor "Naughty and Nice." Serrano's owns most of that block and holds quite a bit of power over downtown. I don't think they'll leave anytime soon. In addition, the current city council has quite a few preservationists.

[nickkoto]

So I went to In-n-Out for lunch today. You can't really see it from Rural, but the Onyx site looks like a muddy Olympic-sized swimming pool after this weekend's rainstorms. Doh!

I saw some earthmoving equipment being used at the mill last week. Could it be that they're finally going to do something with it?

Also, what's the excavation of Rio Salado by the golf course for? South Bank?

[tempedude]

Originally Posted by nickkoto

Also, what's the excavation of Rio Salado by the golf course for? South Bank?

Yes, that is for South Bank

[PC2001]

Thanks to the responses I got about Centerpoint. I'm gonna play it hard. I wont backout though. I really want a weekend place downtown.

[mill]

Wall Street Journal July 16, 2008 PHOENIX -- Flamboyant real-estate financier Scott Coles penned a farewell letter, put on a tuxedo and climbed into bed, where he was later found dead in what police believe was a suicide. The tragedy last month is drawing attention to the condition of the nation's commercial real-estate market, which is beginning to show mounting signs of distress.

Mr. Coles, who was 48 years old, had built his company, Mortgages Ltd., into one of Arizona's biggest private lenders during the real-estate boom. It specialized in short-term, high-interest-rate loans to commercial developers -- builders of malls, office parks, condominiums and other projects -- who either had bad credit or a need for quick cash with no red tape. But he overreached, and the debacle that has devastated the U.S. housing market the past year is now squeezing Mortgages Ltd.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121617220846656637.html?mod=hpp_us_pageone

[PC2001]

I got an update from Centerpoint. I was gonna cut and paste the email but it must be confidential. Briefly it says that they're waiting for the court to review and potentially approve Mortgages Ltd.’s financing. This will be in August 6. Then 60 days from there the first tower will be done. They said that approximately 81%, of the 171 homes in Tower One are already completed.

So I'm probably looking to close in October. Damn that's awesome weather by then. It's exciting!

[HX_Guy]

Awesome man, congrats! Take some pictures from up there when you get a chance.

[ciweiss]

Congrats PC2001 - that is great news. Oct will be a nice and cool time to move in and you will be loving it down there. The cool part is that once the light rail is running a couple months later you will have the best of DT Tempe and Phoenix. I am looking forward to going to a game and drinking a couple beers and jumping on the train and heading back home. No driving or parking to worry about. It is very cool also just to roll downstairs and get some coffee or go meet some friends for a beer.

[JAHOPL]

A nice segue into this morning's news story:

Centerpoint Attracting Potential Investors
East Valley Tribune, Edward Gately, July 17

After losing some of its original financing from troubled lender Mortgages Ltd., the towering Centerpoint condominium project is attracting other investors ready to fund completion of the project on Mill Avenue in Tempe.

That's according to Kenneth Losch, one of the principals of Avenue Communities, the project's developer, and Centerpoint's managing partner. The project includes 375 condominiums in two towers, one that's 22 stories and the other 30 stories.

Mortgages Ltd. loaned funds for the residential and retail development but was unable to provide enough money to complete the project, partly because of the changing investment climate.

The firm supplied $132 million, but Avenue Communities is reported to be seeking $50 million more to complete the buildings.

Scott Coles, former president and chief executive of Mortgages Ltd., was found dead in his home June 2, and his company entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy court protection later that month. Police don't suspect foul play in Cole's death. Avenue Communities is negotiating with Mortgages Ltd. and is seeking a settlement before it makes new financing arrangements with another party, Losch said. He wouldn't say what his company is seeking from Mortgages Ltd.

"It is our intent to have our settlement completed, to have a new lender in place and to fund the project (by) the middle of August," he said.

In the meantime, construction is continuing and there's more than enough money out there to fund completion, Losch said.

"There are numerous people who are willing to provide the money to finish the project 100 percent," he said. "The money is not the issue. The money has never been the issue. There's lots of money out there to do good deals, to do great deals, and this is a great deal."

Before Mortgages Ltd. filed for Chapter 11, other investors were interested in providing financing but they did not want their loan to be second to Mortgages Ltd.'s in repayment, Losch said. Because of the bankruptcy, the authority is in the hands of federal judge who can place a new loan ahead of Mortgage Ltd.'s.

Tempe Mayor Hugh Hallman said Mortgages Ltd.'s struggles haven't in any way hindered Avenue Communities' ability to complete Centerpoint.

"What happens to the underlying financier is not particularly relevant in the long run with the success of the project," he said. "Mortgages Ltd.'s financial difficulty has to do with failures of projects primarily in downtown Phoenix that could not continue to pay the financing company. That Centerpoint is one of the borrowers from Mortgages Ltd. isn't a particular issue for Mortgages Ltd. In fact, it's one of the few performing loans on the portfolio."

It's unfortunate that Avenue Communities has to deal with these difficulties, but "they are not only well-heeled professionals who understand how to get deals done," Hallman said, adding it has significant financial wealth behind it.

The first tower is nearly completed and occupancy is expected in October, Losch said. The first tower includes 171 condos and sales have totaled $24 million so far, he said.

Losch wouldn't say how many units have sold.

[tempedude]

^That's good news indeed.

BTW...congrats PC2001. Good luck with your new home. October is a great time of year, its when things finally cool down after a long hot summer.

[loftlovr]

That article irks me. As if sales have totalled $24 mill- reservation holder's have reserved $24 mill worth of Real Estate perhaps, but $24mill worth of condos will not sell in that wave. Especially in this tricky market with obtaining financing and wishy washy buyers.
And the fact that Mayor Hallman stated that Mortgages LTD had issues primarily relating to Downtown Phoenix... Chataeux had some issues certainly. But money lent for Jackson Street and Hotel Monroe was good investment money in my opinion. Mortgages LTD was pretty spread out in terms of projects across the Valley.
I do wish this project success. I just don't see how investors are lining up to throw in money for a 375 unit project where 25-35 units have been reserved.
Maybe I am missing something.

[ScottsdaleDevil]

I heard that the Lumina project might not be happening and they closed their sales office. I also heard that Clemson just recently tried to sell condos next to their stadium and it was a major flop. I think the idea is nice but does anyone really see that working? I just can't see them building with the high amout of inventory right now for condos in Tempe.

Also, the University Square project has now turned into a parking lot for the city of Tempe...is this moving forward or not happening? It seems like the only project going on by Sun Devil Stadium is the parking garage that the City of Tempe is putting in.

Thanks for the help and this is a great forum!

[ciweiss]

Welcome Scottsdale Devil!
That is a good question regarding future developements. I'm kinda wonder the same. I think some of these projects will start to close. As slow as some of the sales is going I think things will go into perpetual hold. I thought Onyx was going to be breaking ground within about 4 months so I think that will be a tall tale sign of how things are going. I was hoping Mosaic would be next but I am starting to have my doubts. I think people are going to wait until the election and see where the economy is sitting at that point. Its good news about Centerpoint. Glad that is finishing.

[ScottsdaleDevil]

Originally Posted by ciweiss

Welcome Scottsdale Devil!
That is a good question regarding future developements. I'm kinda wonder the same. I think some of these projects will start to close. As slow as some of the sales is going I think things will go into perpetual hold. I thought Onyx was going to be breaking ground within about 4 months so I think that will be a tall tale sign of how things are going. I was hoping Mosaic would be next but I am starting to have my doubts. I think people are going to wait until the election and see where the economy is sitting at that point. Its good news about Centerpoint. Glad that is finishing.

Ciweiss,

Thanks for the quick response. Would you or anyone else on the board let me know why ASU sold the land by Tempe Town Lake? That seems to be a prime are to expand the campus but ASU basically gave it away to developers. Any hope in the future that campus projects might happen in the areas of the Town Lake or possibly where Lumina was planned? All of these projects seem like they are going to be on top of ASUs campus and Sun Devil Stadium.

[PhxSprawler]

ASU sold at a very opportune time when the land was valuable. ASU wants to enforce public transit usage to become more sustainable, and dumping a parking lot seemed to be the way to go. It still has quite a bit of infill opportunity within its boundaries, as well as the downtown campus. IMO, it was a good idea for the school but poorly timed for the students. Light rail should have been in place before dumping precious parking.

I hope something goes up in place of Lumina/Stadium towers. The market could handle apartments in the area, even if the developers don't try to sell the units as condo's. I highly doubt there will be campus projects there. I don't know how far back in this thread you have read, but ASU will likely demolish and develop the frat houses in the area, however.