Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Still, about 40% of the population in Edmundston speaks only French. Though I suppose it's a lot easier to find bilingual employees for your gas station there than in Rivière-du-Loup up the road in Quebec, where 79% speak only French.

That's another big difference between NB and ON. Francophones in Ontario are virtually always bilingual. In Ottawa only 1% speaks only French even though about 15% have French as first language.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Marshsparrow

If someone or a tourist doesn't like the service they receive at a store, restaurant, attraction, etc. - go somewhere else or start your own. Anglophones who live in Quebec (especially those most recently moved there) and complain about being treated as below second class citizens - I am not sure what you expected - it won't change and it won't get better.

Sounds like what they tell gays who are looking for wedding cakes, or blacks in Arkansas circa 1960s.

[Kilgore Trout]

False equivalency. You can't change being gay, or being black, but being an anglophone or francophone does not preclude you from speaking another language.

That said, in real life people are very accommodating. It's usually just on the internet and in the opinion pages of newspapers where people take such hard lines about things.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Much more often was "Ici, c'est Québec, et ici on parle français!!" That was common, especially during the 80s.

Or, in less words, "Tokébakicitte!"

I've had that silly song in the head for weeks, won't go away ...

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I know, and I am surely not the only one.

But they have no way of knowing that.

And plenty of people in Quebec actually don't speak English.

The example I cited is pretty typical of the "everyone I encounter in Quebec should dutifully speak English when spoken to" attitude.

As soon as I cross into Quebec near where I live the vast majority of people speak very little to no English. And that's places like Duparquet or La Sarre which are along the border. The city of Rouyn-Noranda is also along the border and some people speak English well due to it being a regional centre and attracting English-speaking customers from places like Kirkland Lake ON and people who work in mining from elsewhere. Val-d'Or isn't on the border (is further East) and is where I hear more English being spoken due to a number of Cree people who have moved there and again many more working in mining who came from elsewhere.

A lot of the differences are due to the industries in the area. The sawmill towns and agricultural areas tend to have few who speak English while ones with mining and businesses with sales to Ontario have more English speakers. I have to say that it's cool that I can drive 1.5 hours to the East and be somewhere that is 100% francophone. It was because of so many visits when I was younger that I became comfortable and wanted to visit all of Quebec which I did with the exception of Nunavik.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Or, in less words, "Tokébakicitte!"

I've had that silly song in the head for weeks, won't go away ...

It's actually a self-deprecating or self-critical song, as you likely know.

Have you ever heard anyone say that in real life (before the song)? I definitely have.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

As soon as I cross into Quebec near where I live the vast majority of people speak very little to no English. And that's places like Duparquet or La Sarre which are along the border. The city of Rouyn-Noranda is also along the border and some people speak English well due to it being a regional centre and attracting English-speaking customers from places like Kirkland Lake ON and people who work in mining from elsewhere. Val-d'Or isn't on the border (is further East) and is where I hear more English being spoken due to a number of Cree people who have moved there and again many more working in mining who came from elsewhere.

A lot of the differences are due to the industries in the area. The sawmill towns and agricultural areas tend to have few who speak English while ones with mining and businesses with sales to Ontario have more English speakers. I have to say that it's cool that I can drive 1.5 hours to the East and be somewhere that is 100% francophone. It was because of so many visits when I was younger that I became comfortable and wanted to visit all of Quebec which I did with the exception of Nunavik.

Most people aren't as culturally curious as you are, as I am sure you're aware!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Lucien Bouchard and his (then) wife Audrey Best and their children were patients at the Dental clinic that my mother worked at in Westmount. My mom and her colleagues would speak french to the kids when they came in for their checkups and filings (and/or orthodontics, which was the specialty at that clinic), but they wanted to converse in English. Apparently Lucien Bouchard used English almost exclusively with his (then) wife and kids.

Even if it's a bit ridiculous, some in the media thought it was a great "gotcha!" moment, and he was asked about this, and he disputed the idea that he only spoke English to his boys, though he added that his wife was an anglophone American, and that it was perfectly normal for her to speak her own language with her own kids. (She also spent more time with them in their childhood, which coincided with the apex of his political career.)

I heard his boys interviewed some years ago, and they sounded like typical Montreal francophone kids. If I recall they went to Collège St-Stanislas. Though I am sure their English is top-notch as well.

(BTW the late Audrey Best Bouchard also spoke excellent French.)

[thurmas]

Leger poll out today has support for independence at 41 % and sovereignty association at 53% seems very high compared to recent years

[MolsonExport]

How the CAQ is rebranding Quebec nationalism

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

How the CAQ is rebranding Quebec nationalism

Interesting arguments of course, though I note that not a single supporter of Bill 96 is quoted in the story. (Or if they're there, I missed them.)

Surprising for a law that was supported by a strong majority of Quebec legislators and perhaps two thirds of the population.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's actually a self-deprecating or self-critical song, as you likely know.

I wonder if the mulleted police officer part could be done in English in 2022 in such an irreverent way (does he still exist?) or maybe the girlfriend. Then again, we are quietly moving past the 2020-2021 cultural moment. Maybe best to just let it go quietly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Then again, we are quietly moving past the 2020-2021 cultural moment. Maybe best to just let it go quietly.

I think you're right, but not sure people will like what replaces it.

[MolsonExport]

câline de binne

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Interesting arguments of course, though I note that not a single supporter of Bill 96 is quoted in the story. (Or if they're there, I missed them.)

Surprising for a law that was supported by a strong majority of Quebec legislators and perhaps two thirds of the population.

Well are you surprised? lol There is of course an editorial line to follow.

Other than that I have read quite a few recent articles recently on topics like Bill 21 and 96 from anglophone newspapers and websites and the amount of disinformation and vague information displayed is... impressive.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I wonder if the mulleted police officer part could be done in English in 2022 in such an irreverent way (does he still exist?) or maybe the girlfriend. .

I am not actually sure that Anglo-Canada is sufficiently "in-tune" with itself to produce something like this.

I mean, sure there has been stuff like Fubar and Trailer Park Boys, but these are sarcastic critiques of sub-groups in society, not of the society as a whole which is what this song about Quebec is all about.

The brand "Canada" as an identity wasn't really dragged through the mud in Fubar and TPB. (Neither were "Albertan" or "Nova Scotian" for that matter.)

Most stuff that references the (Anglo-)Canadian identity can be self-deprecatingly goofy, but it's almost never self-scathing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0tjfhfgPY4

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not actually sure that Anglo-Canada is sufficiently "in-tune" with itself to produce something like this.

I mean, sure there has been stuff like Fubar and Trailer Park Boys, but these are sarcastic critiques of sub-groups in society, not of the society as a whole which is what this song about Quebec is all about.

The brand "Canada" as an identity wasn't really dragged through the mud in Fubar and TPB. (Neither were "Albertan" or "Nova Scotian" for that matter.)

Most stuff that references the (Anglo-)Canadian identity can be self-deprecatingly goofy, but it's almost never self-scathing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0tjfhfgPY4

When TPB came out I thought of it as a mockery of Maritime life. But, comedy is often made in that guise, being borderline offensive, but with the borders being rather blurry & elusive.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I mean, sure there has been stuff like Fubar and Trailer Park Boys, but these are sarcastic critiques of sub-groups in society, not of the society as a whole which is what this song about Quebec is all about.

The brand "Canada" as an identity wasn't really dragged through the mud in Fubar and TPB. (Neither were "Albertan" or "Nova Scotian" for that matter.)

This wasn't my interpretation of Trailer Park Boys. I think it was pretty widely accepted by everyday people who thought it was broadly applicable (though part caricature of course) and funny and if anything people in NS tend to exaggerate the hickish tendencies there (e.g. it's the most racist place ever; if only Viola Desmond had lived in Red Deer in the 1940's she would never had suffered from discrimination). The idea that low status stuff can be cool goes back long before TPB.

But I'm not sure if they touched race or consent issues with the same tone and it was from another era at this point.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by someone123

This wasn't my interpretation of Trailer Park Boys. I think it was pretty widely accepted by everyday people who thought it was broadly applicable (though part caricature of course) and funny and if anything people in NS tend to exaggerate the hickish tendencies there (e.g. it's the most racist place ever; if only Viola Desmond had lived in Red Deer in the 1940's she would never had suffered from discrimination).

But I'm not sure if they touched race or consent issues and it was from another era at this point.

Yes, most people were delighted, but then there was me with my delicate sensibilities. I've sometimes found Nfld. comedy the same.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Architype

Yes, most people were delighted, but then there was me with my delicate sensibilities. I've sometimes found Nfld. comedy the same.

TPB is also basically low class urban, while if you made fun of rural people they would live in a small village and have a resource based lifestyle. It is supposed to be set in the equivalent of Sackville or Cole Harbour, where people have heavier accents, live in trailers, and mostly work in urban service jobs (or don't work and possibly engage in crime).

It was probably also a lot funnier than the modern Canadian ones from elsewhere even though it's older, although I don't really like the new ones so maybe I'm missing something. For example they made Rita MacNeil harvest weed at gunpoint. They probably don't have that in Corner Gas or that Ontario one.