Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[GrandTeton]

It's a long shot, but does anyone know how many units are under construction or close to breaking ground in Salt Lake?

[delts145]

Actually Grand Teton there are a couple of forum members that keep track of those numbers and have posted them. I'm sure they'll update us on that as soon as they see your question. I wish I could recall the last post on it off the top of my head. I just remember the numbers were setting historical records.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by GrandTeton

It's a long shot, but does anyone know how many units are under construction or close to breaking ground in Salt Lake?

Including only large projects (50+ Units), by my count there are 3825 units under construction in Salt Lake City, 1900 of which are in the greater downtown area (I-15 to 900 East, 900 South to 600 North) and the bulk of the rest are in Sugar House or along the S-Line. It's difficult to say how many are close to breaking ground but there are about 3500 units in active planning (meaning the developers are trying to get them built now as opposed to some later phase). 2400 of those are in the greater downtown area.

Also, 2017 saw the completion of about 1800 units, which were all in the downtown area with the exception of Legacy Village in Sugar House.

So between those completed in 2017, under construction now, and planned for construction this year, that's over 9000 units. Again this is including only large developments (50+ units). I don't keep track of all the little ones.

Isaac might have more comprehensive numbers.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by twig

I feel like the salt lake forum has been stuck in a rut for the last couple of years, we always go through a cycle of arguing about the same 3 things. 1) no real development 2) we all hate Denver for the most petty of reasons, and 3) homeless people

To be perfectly fair, I spend a decent amount of time complaining about stucco and low quality & lack luster construction... so I guess it’s 4 things.

[Orlando]

Delts, a big thumbs up to you! Thank you!

Airhero, I think it has to do with the ratio of active forum members to # of actual projects and project news. News about new projects, in general, is slow compared to the high number of active forumers that look in the SL threads. We probably have the highest # of active forumers compared to any other city on this website.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Delts, a big thumbs up to you! Thank you!

Airhero, I think it has to do with the ratio of active forum members to # of actual projects and project news. News about new projects, in general, is slow compared to the high number of active forumers that look in the SL threads. We probably have the highest # of active forumers compared to any other city on this website.

I agree. And those that do participate do generate a diverse conglomerate of conversation. Some threads - not saying one style of utilization is better - but are mostly updates instead of conversations.

[Comrade]

I bitch because it's the only time this forum is active.

[GrandTeton]

Thank you Delts and Airhero. Salt Lake is growing faster than I thought!

[asies1981]

Post on five proposed missing middle projects.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by airhero

Including only large projects (50+ Units), by my count there are 3825 units under construction in Salt Lake City, 1900 of which are in the greater downtown area (I-15 to 900 East, 900 South to 600 North) and the bulk of the rest are in Sugar House or along the S-Line. It's difficult to say how many are close to breaking ground but there are about 3500 units in active planning (meaning the developers are trying to get them built now as opposed to some later phase). 2400 of those are in the greater downtown area.

Also, 2017 saw the completion of about 1800 units, which were all in the downtown area with the exception of Legacy Village in Sugar House.

So between those completed in 2017, under construction now, and planned for construction this year, that's over 9000 units. Again this is including only large developments (50+ units). I don't keep track of all the little ones.

Isaac might have more comprehensive numbers.

My numbers are about the same. Crazy to think that there could be 7000 units added to the city in the next two years.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by airhero

Including only large projects (50+ Units), by my count there are 3825 units under construction in Salt Lake City, 1900 of which are in the greater downtown area (I-15 to 900 East, 900 South to 600 North) and the bulk of the rest are in Sugar House or along the S-Line. It's difficult to say how many are close to breaking ground but there are about 3500 units in active planning (meaning the developers are trying to get them built now as opposed to some later phase). 2400 of those are in the greater downtown area.

Also, 2017 saw the completion of about 1800 units, which were all in the downtown area with the exception of Legacy Village in Sugar House.

So between those completed in 2017, under construction now, and planned for construction this year, that's over 9000 units. Again this is including only large developments (50+ units). I don't keep track of all the little ones.

Isaac might have more comprehensive numbers.

Let’s say the other various smaller projects add up to a thousand, so 10,000 overall. How many of these units are single bedroom vs multiple bedroom? Would it be safe to say the average would be 2 people per unit? If that’s the case, that would be an additional 20,000 residents in the next 2 years. (Also Including 2017)

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

Let’s say the other various smaller projects add up to a thousand, so 10,000 overall. How many of these units are single bedroom vs multiple bedroom? Would it be safe to say the average would be 2 people per unit? If that’s the case, that would be an additional 20,000 residents in the next 2 years. (Also Including 2017)

Most of these reports vastly understate the actual construction volume. The estimates work off of different data sets. For example, YardiMatrix fall multifamily report showed an 18,000 unit pipeline for the greater SLC market (7500 under construction and 10,500 in entitlement phase). If you want the real data, you need to go to Jeff Neese of Western States Multifamily, who appraises apartments for HUD and the big banks. Here were his numbers from Mid 2017:



That's a 24,000 unit pipeline, almost 17,000 in the county, for our greater metro and that number is mind-boggling. Along with airport expansion and tech growth, this is why Utah is the top construction market per capita in the country. It's really hard to understand this until you have to get a bid to build things. Lots of belly-aching by the usual peanut gallery on this forum. Maybe it's quiet in here because the forum members are too busy building stuff?

[bob rulz]

Thank you Marvland and delts! There is PLENTY of development happening, it's just that most people seem to care more about the things that aren't happening than the things that are.

Originally Posted by GrandTeton

Development must be slow in Salt Lake, eh?

It's not, it's just that most of the forum members who actually want to talk about it have stopped coming around here or come around here a lot less often because the ones who are the most active are the ones that are either bitching about the homeless, or bitching about how we're not Seattle or Austin. Just look at how long it took just to get somebody to update the projects list, even though there's tons of things happening. Based on how people talk about Salt Lake on this thread you would think it's just a windswept ghost town of homeless people and blank stucco walls for miles upon miles. I like to go over and follow the Denver thread not just because it's interesting, but to see how an actual mature group of people talk about their city. That's something that's in very short supply here.

As you can see from from those construction numbers that were posted, there's plenty of stuff happening.

I would contribute more, but I don't really know anything that others don't. Most of my contributions build off of things that others say. I would also love to get out and take pictures but transportation and time are issues for me.

I also think it's long past time to merge the Sugarhouse and airport threads into the main thread.

[bob rulz]

Also big shoutout to asies. His tireless work on the buildingsaltlake forum keeps this place alive.

[jubguy3]

Why merge the threads? I keep the airport one active with the construction updates and news. No need to get rid of it

[Jiffy]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Why merge the threads? I keep the airport one active with the construction updates and news. No need to get rid of it

Honestly I would only make 3 threads, Keep Salt Lake the same. Keep St. George the same (even though I don't think its big enough or enough going on to even need to be mentioned). And every other thread you guys went thread crazy on (provo thread, utah valley thread, airport thread, ogden thread, sugarhouse thread, university of utah thread, salt lake msa development thread, Utah population estimates) into one. Like holy crap you guys have like 11 threads and maybe only 3 every regularly get mentioned. the rest get maybe 1 comment every month or so, why can't they be the wasatch front thread? and maybe keep the transportation thread (but maybe put the airport thread with the transportation thread instead?) And why is there even a Cache valley thread?

[asies1981]

Update on the Northwest Quadrant.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Why merge the threads? I keep the airport one active with the construction updates and news. No need to get rid of it

That's why I want it to be merged. It would add discussion to the main SLC forum.

Or maybe merge it with the transit thread instead like jiffy said. It's transportation-related, no?

I forgot about the U of U thread...it's crazy that's its own thread.

One of the problems with the SLC forum is how so many vital topics are fragmented and siloed into other threads. These are topics that are far too interrelated to keep them separate.

Colorado has four threads - Denver, Cherry Creek, Front Range, and transit.

Idaho has Boise, Boise transit, and statewide.

Utah has SLC, Sugarhouse (a part of SLC), Salt Lake MSA, airport, U of U, Ogden, Provo, Utah Valley, Cache Valley, St. George, and transit, and maybe even something I'm forgetting. It's too much.

I'm in favor of merging Sugarhouse and U of U with SLC, airport with transit, and honestly Utah Valley, Provo, Ogden, Cache Valley, and Dixie should all just be one single Utah Statewide thread. All of those together is not enough to even match up with the activity of the main SLC thread.

[delts145]

I started the Sugar House Thread years ago and also the Utah Valley Thread. I would be more than happy to request their merger. The Provo Thread was started by Wasatch One some time after the Utah Valley wide Thread. Wasatch One has not checked in to the forum for over one year now. I propose that the two be merged into the...Provo MSA Thread. Provo and Utah Valley would be well on their way to starting volume #3 by now if combined. I think combining the two makes perfect sense. There's a ton going on in the Salt Lake MSA, it's just that the forum members who live there are'nt posting as actively as they use to. I would not be against just having a Wasatch Front CSA Thread.

Also the Univ. of Utah Threads starter has not checked into the forum for about 5 years. I agree and join with others in proposing that both the U. of U. Thread and the Sugar House Thread, which I started be merged with Salt Lake City. A group of us have wanted to merge a few of the threads, but there was some resistance and perhaps a little apathy in the past. To be fair, Denver has had just as many Denver/Front Range/Colorado related Threads as Utah in the past. Also, Boise has had a number of threads such as the Boise State Univ. Thread, Coeur D'alene, etc. In the past there was actually quite a bit of activity on most of the differing Utah Threads. However as pointed out, their starters and many of those members that kept them active with photos and posts have kind of moved on, and haven't posted for years in some cases.

I also agree that the Airport Thread should be combined with the Transportation Thread.

[jubguy3]

Its hard to keep meaningful information separate over a long period of time. If people are looking for information about a specific project, why make them comb through one giant megathread? That's why I want to dismantle the mountain west subsection, if you go to say Seattle's section they have room to post about specific projects and discussions without having to get mixed up with other cities. It would make sense for SLC and Denver to split because there is so much activity associated with the two on this forum (I love you denver... its not you, its me).

In the last month, the following Utah threads have seen discussion: main thread, transit, airport, sugarhouse, utah valley, university of utah, provo, msa, saint george, ogden.

If you're itching to merge threads, why not request that SLC and Denver have their own city sections created so that we can actually organize projects within threads instead of having to keep any relevant information sorted by time?

I'm going to ask specifically that you don't merge the transit and the airport threads. Development at the SLC airport is incredibly active and I want to keep the two separate because they entail two very different spheres of discussion. I post biweekly construction updates, occasional additional photo updates, news (media), email archives, SLC airport blog posts, and the airport advisory board PDFs. The airport thread is one of the more active threads in Mountain West right now, and its going to become more active as the north concourse breaks ground and we start to see more and more user-facing products.

My issue with merging is that merging mushes meaningful information. While information might be more readily displayed at that immediate moment, accessing stuff later will be more and more difficult. If I'm looking for information about 111, do I go and find the 111 thread in the forum archives, or do I have to dig through the ~45,000 posts that have been posted in SLC development threads? Over a long term, merging threads is going to make it harder and harder to keep information separate. Really, we need our own subsection along with denver (and we have enough activity to justify it).

Look at, say, San Antonio's forum subsection: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/foru...hp?forumid=447

Activity within individual threads is lower but information about specific projects is displayed more meaningfully and easily than if it had been combined into one thread. The projects post at the beginning of threads is a meager attempt to try to cobble that information into one spot... I am doing my best to maintain it but if separate topics are parsed into their own sections, we won't have to dig to find information a week after its posted.


But for the time being if you guys are resistant to drastic changes, I would love to see Ogden / Provo and Utah Valley (why does the Utah Valley thread exist???) merged into a Wasatch Front thread and sugarhouse combined with the Salt Lake MSA thread.