Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[jchamoun79]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Looks like plans are already in the works by one bidder:

"Bidder"? When will you people accept the fact that your futile fight is over - and you lost.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Looks like plans are already in the works by one bidder:

Pointing it out will achieve nothing, I know, but you are embarrassing yourself in pretending that the Conservancy is some plan you just happened across, and even more so in referring to yourself as a "bidder".

[Aylmer]

Grass and trees and fountains are all very nice, but WHY would people go there for longer than it takes to buy a carrot? Grass without the proper density or redeeming features becomes a crime magnet and a liability for the neighbourhood almost all the time. Why would I go there? The Byward is closer and more lively than Bank and I've got grass a'plenty in my back yard. And the surrounding density isn't enough to provide full-day use or night usage for the park. Read "The Death And Life of Great American Cities". Please.

Moreover, IT'S OVER.

[concernedottawa]

NYC specialists in market districts to advise on ByWard’s future
DAVID REEVELY, OTTAWA CITIZEN AUGUST 16, 2012
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/sp...042/story.html

OTTAWA — The city is hiring the New York-based Project for Public Spaces to help figure out what the future of the ByWard Market should be...

The Project for Public Spaces does a lot of neighbourhood-design work but its particular specialty is public markets and how food can be the centrepiece of a prosperous district — it’s running a national conference on the subject in Cleveland in September.(end)


Directing them to Lansdowne to provide their input and expertise prior to any final decisions appears logical.

Notes from the PPS previous conference held in Granville Island Vancouver B.C.:

The Magic is in the Mix: Creating Great Multi-Use Destinations
Project for Public Spaces on Jun 11, 2010
http://www.pps.org/creating-great-pu...nville-island/

As everyone who visits quickly learns, Granville Island is much more than just an island. One of the top two destinations in Canada, it is also a unique example of one of the best “multi-use destinations” in the world. This kind of destination defines a city’s identity through the variety of uses and public spaces that highlight local assets and unique talents and skills of the community -educational, cultural, and commercial- that are all open and available to all visitors to enjoy for free. They allow you to visit, become involved and stay awhile. These destinations are not defined by architecture or design elements, but rather the uses these features support.

Growing incrementally over the years, Granville is publicly owned and managed and has proved that successful development need not be expensive.

There were a variety of interesting lessons that emerged from the forum:

-Public multi-use destinations like Granville Island have proven to be most successful, and we should replicate them more often. Why do we spend so much money on new developments that don’t work and that don’t attract people?

-Don’t lead with design. The design of multi-use destinations should be to create a “setting” for the uses that are occurring and that emphasize the products and the authentic aspects of the place.

-The importance of government learning to say “yes” to new ideas and developing stronger more trusting relationships with the private sector.

-“If you think you’re done, you’re finished” – Develop spaces that are flexible and that “manage themselves.” Ongoing and innovative management are key to creating vibrant multi-use destinations.

-“The magic is in the mix.” We are moving beyond the simple concept of “mixed use” toward a technique of development that builds authentic places through establishing settings and uses that are intimately related, interconnected and interdependent. True sustainability comes from the relationships between uses, tenants, and the organizations within a place.

-Find creative funding strategies to keep rents low, attract a range of tenants and incentivize the presence of tenants who may not produce a lot of money for the site, but who bring a lot of foot traffic and are invested in the area.



........Input from the experts at PPS on Lansdowne Park would be invaluable.

[gjhall]

PPS alsoworks with lots of highly commercialized areas, like Times Square, Union Square, etc. They would almost certainly like the "mix" the Lansdowne plan provides.

[Cre47]

The first phrase of the Quick Comparaison between the OSEG and LPC is basically one main reason why the OSEG is why more better than the LPC's proposal of a continuation of mainly a dead zone except of football games.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Cre47

The first phrase of the Quick Comparaison between the OSEG and LPC is basically one main reason why the OSEG is why more better than the LPC's proposal of a continuation of mainly a dead zone except of football games.

Then when you consider that LPC doesn't have a football (or soccer) team for the stadium, it seems like even more of a dead zone.

[concernedottawa]

Any bidder who develops Lansdowne Park will and must include a stadium.

The stadium is for the FIFA 2015 Women's World Cup, a municipal requirement.

Football and soccer teams require a stadium.

If one is there they will show up and pay rent, sell tickets, merchandise, food and beverage and advertising, as the way it is done across our nation.

[McC]

I love Granville Island, but it's not a Park, it's nothing like your Conservancy Plan. Of the alternatives, the one that more closely resembles Granville Island is the current approved plan looking out a good 25+ years from completion, when the buildings get a little older and more tired-looking, and the JackAstorses and SunglassesHuts of the world have all failed, closed and been replaced with smaller and more interesting businesses.

Sure, if we hadn't torn down all of the old buildings on the site, it could already look like Granville Island (with the bonus of not being stuck under the noisy permanent midnight of a highway-grade high-level bridge) with the old digs easily re-purposed into inexpensive space for artists, artisans and crafts-people, an enlarged school of art and design, plenty of places to eat and drink etc. Sadly, it's 2012, the buildings were almost all torn down, and the remaining ones left to rot, so we're starting nearly from scratch. But guess what, anything that gets built will live and breath and change over time, and I would argue that such evolution is MORE likely to occur with the less-than-iconic architecture, honestly, who can afford the rent in a Gehry? so guess who would foot the bill if we wanted to fill one with indy and small uses!

[concernedottawa]

As some of you may have heard a new tower development is in the works one block away from Lansdowne Park.

This is the smart way to go.

These developers understand the principle of Granville Island in Vancouver.

Small unique commerce combined with farmers market, restaurants, outdoor entertainment, recreation at a public space.
The public aspect is crucial so that rents are kept modest to attract interesting small business. This is the long term approach
of the Granville Island model. You make your money for the City by increased tourism.

Condos and towers outside.

Now would be the time to get that report from the PPS.

[concernedottawa]

(BTW there are plenty of buildings and space under one bidders proposal):

New Market building 110,000 sqft ( old Coliseum buildings combined were about 45,000 sq ft)
Lower level North Stands 30,000 sqft ( ideal for art gallery/school)
New retail space North Stands main level 5,000 sqft
Horticulture Building 25,000 sqft
Pool Pavillion 10,000 sqft

The interior of the Aberdeen is 36,000 sqft for use by the Farmers Market in winter as well as special events
and not included but would give more than 210,000 sq ft total.

You let the space evolve into itself with a healthy starting point of 210,000 sq ft and good and free parking,
not 850,000 sq ft and limited expensive parking.

Additional buildings can be added, don't over design, and retain space for the human experience.

Intelligent development will compliment the area outside the public space at Lansdowne.

The value of Lansdowne is public space. Lose that and you will have killed the golden goose.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

(BTW there are plenty of buildings and space under one bidders proposal):

New Market building 110,000 sqft ( old Coliseum buildings combined were about 45,000 sq ft)
Lower level North Stands 30,000 sqft ( ideal for art gallery/school)
New retail space North Stands main level 5,000 sqft
Horticulture Building 25,000 sqft
Pool Pavillion 10,000 sqft

The interior of the Aberdeen is 36,000 sqft for use by the Farmers Market in winter as well as special events
and not included but would give more than 210,000 sq ft total.

You let the space evolve into itself with a healthy starting point of 210,000 sq ft and good and free parking,
not 850,000 sq ft and limited expensive parking.

Additional buildings can be added, don't over design, and retain space for the human experience.

Intelligent development will compliment the area outside the public space at Lansdowne.

The value of Lansdowne is public space. Lose that and you will have killed the golden goose.

First off, you have to stop calling this guy and his project "a bidder and his bid". There is no competition and this dead beat who won't pay his wife’s child support is the only one coming up with a half assed "alternative" to OSEG’s plan, not because he thinks it's a better plan, but because he wants to make money. At least FOL had legitimate concerns.

Secondly, the buildings are too dispersed around the site, doing little to make this a lively, urban experience. And the commercial aspects in these buildings will end up looking more like Masson's flea market than a shopping and entertainment district.

Furthermore, here again is the reference to the proper thread to discuss this two-bit Lansdowne Conservancy junk;


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=182064

[concernedottawa]

Gossip is irrelevant.

Whatever group develops the site is irrelevant.

The issue is getting a report from the Project for Public Spaces while they are
in town so that the space is developed sensibly.

Tower development outside the public space follows successful planning principles.

That a major developer is planning a project in the tens of millions of dollars one block away
seems to indicate there may be something in the works to scale back the development
at Lansdowne.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Gossip is irrelevant.

Whatever group develops the site is irrelevant.

The issue is getting a report from the Project for Public Spaces while they are
in town so that the space is developed sensibly.

Tower development outside the public space follows successful planning principles.

That a major developer is planning a project in the tens of millions of dollars one block away
seems to indicate there may be something in the works to scale back the development
at Lansdowne.

Any chance you could give us a link or reference to this big development a block away?

[concernedottawa]

You won't find one. However gas line/electrical/etc locating has commenced. The property will include the Beer store, Mr. Muffler and front Bank street. They have also approached adjacent land owners as well.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Notes from the PPS previous conference held in Granville Island Vancouver B.C.:

Granville Island has very little parkland, and it still manages to draw a large number of visitors. While it has no residential uses, it does provide a large mix of shops, and of course the Market, but also an intriguing variety of other uses, including a hotel, Emily Carr University, Granville Island Brewery and even the Ocean Cement industrial plant (I wonder how the residents of the Glebe would like cement mixers frequent driving through the neighbourhood or the smell of brewing beer?). The biggest draw perhaps, is the boardwalk around the island, which lets people interact with the water and the many marinas, or sit and have a meal at one of many restaurants while watching the sun set over the water. Sadly, the NCC has so far prevented this kind of natural interaction in Ottawa*.

Granville Island is a fine model for Lansdowne, in that it provides a great mix of uses and draws people from far and wide. Oh, and that it's not a park.


* The Domtar lands on Chaudière Island would provide the perfect opportunity to provide the Granville Island-style water interaction that this city is sadly lacking.

[JeffB]

Consider the statement...

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Gossip is irrelevant.

Followed by...

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Any chance you could give us a link or reference to this big development a block away?

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

You won't find one. However gas line/electrical/etc locating has commenced. The property will include the Beer store, Mr. Muffler and front Bank street. They have also approached adjacent land owners as well.

[concernedottawa]

Call your local broker for confirmation.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Gossip is irrelevant.

......

That a major developer is planning a project in the tens of millions of dollars one block away
seems to indicate there may be something in the works to scale back the development
at Lansdowne.

Why would a big development a block away mean that Lansdowne will be scaled back? It could be that development is building up more critical mass in the area. Or is this all irrelevant gossip?

[concernedottawa]

Think of it as a developer.

The current lot size one block away (Thornton/Bank) is roughly 320' x 160'. Add 25% if they acquire the end lots.

Why would you put up 100,000 to 200,000 sq ft ( some are speculating even greater since they are still in negotiations with local property owners ) of development one block away from a planned 850,000 sq ft including towers?

It is not to send your clients to the competitor.

Privatize and fill that public space with high density and you have killed the golden goose.

As the Granville Island model shows, large developments are within a block of, but not in the public space.

The big money is having a properly scaled public site at Lansdowne.

Increase tourism and have an attractive destination and then you will have critical mass in the surrounding area.

Plus much greater property values and much greater taxation.