Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by shreddog

From the article I linked to ...So a 50% increase of 1.33% GDP is roughly 2% GDP.

Were now at 1.76%.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Were now at 1.76%.

That's the current target. Not the actual spending level. Shreddog is correct.

It should be said that the NATO definition of b defence spending includes much more than spending on the military. It includes veterans benefits, portions of national policing, portions of the research budgets, civil defence costs, etc. There's a lot of areas that we could grow spending in that are largely domestic. Though, that has to be balanced with the expectation that we help our allies. The Americans would actually be okay, if we did more in North America and North Atlantic. We could free up forces from Alaska for the Pacific. We could free up forces from Iceland for Europe.

[acottawa]

Navy hanging out with Russian in Cuba.

Also, why is she so rusty?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Navy hanging out with Russian in Cuba.

Also, why is she so rusty?

That's normal. That's why they get scrubbed and painted regularly.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Navy hanging out with Russian in Cuba.

Also, why is she so rusty?

I'm sure the Ruskie sailors are rolling on the poop deck in uncontrollable spasms of laughter, mirth and hilarity looking at the pea shooter mounted to the foredeck of our fearsome AOPS ship.

[casper]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm sure the Ruskie sailors are rolling on the poop deck in uncontrollable spasms of laughter, mirth and hilarity looking at the pea shooter mounted to the foredeck of our fearsome AOPS ship.

Certain the Russians would have now learned to exercise cautions around lees intimidating ship especially if they have a deck in the back to launch drones.

[acottawa]

Canada finally listing the Islamic Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization.

[MonctonRad]

Canada, Germany and Norway discussing a security pact to cover the North Atlantic and Arctic
Canada is being courted for joint German-Norwegian submarine building program
Murray Brewster · CBC News · Posted: Jun 20, 2024 5:00 AM ADT | Last Updated: 7 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...ines-1.7240569


Submarine 'U 34' of the 212A-class of the German Navy, right, leads the four-submarine flotilla passing by the submarine memorial at Heikendorf-Moeltenort at the Baltic Sea, northern Germany, on Friday, May 4, 2007. Germany and Norway are building new subs based on the 212A design. (Heribert Proepper/Associated Press)

Germany and Norway are building new submarines that both countries could use.

Designated as the 212CD, the boats are based on the well-established German Type 212A design, which is operated by both the German and Italian navies.

Six 212CDs are currently under construction — two for Germany and four for Norway — as part of an $8.1 billion (5.5 billion euro) program.

Both European countries are expected to open talks with the manufacturer in 2026 for a second batch of submarines and have been quietly offering Canada the opportunity to get in.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Canada, Germany and Norway discussing a security pact to cover the North Atlantic and Arctic
Canada is being courted for joint German-Norwegian submarine building program
Murray Brewster · CBC News · Posted: Jun 20, 2024 5:00 AM ADT | Last Updated: 7 hours ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...ines-1.7240569


Submarine 'U 34' of the 212A-class of the German Navy, right, leads the four-submarine flotilla passing by the submarine memorial at Heikendorf-Moeltenort at the Baltic Sea, northern Germany, on Friday, May 4, 2007. Germany and Norway are building new subs based on the 212A design. (Heribert Proepper/Associated Press)

Super interesting. I wonder if Finland and Sweden are considered as well.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Navy hanging out with Russian in Cuba.

Also, why is she so rusty?

Irving: the contract did not specify how much rust resistance was required.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Super interesting. I wonder if Finland and Sweden are considered as well.

Unless they are buying submarines, probably not. This is basically an invite to participate in a submarine program, that all three governments are trying to spin as some kind of Junior Varsity AUKUS. Not even close to the same thing. But these are the kinds of deals we'll have to settle for.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Navy hanging out with Russian in Cuba.

Also, why is she so rusty?

Normal for any ship, I watched a crew of a offshore supply ship do some paint touch ups just this morning. Most of the rust develops around the scuppers that drain water from the deck.

If I was a betting man, I'd say the Russian ships were repainted before leaving for Cuba.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Unless they are buying submarines, probably not. This is basically an invite to participate in a submarine program, that all three governments are trying to spin as some kind of Junior Varsity AUKUS. Not even close to the same thing. But these are the kinds of deals we'll have to settle for.

As long as we settle for the required number of new, capable subs - who really cares where they come from?

We aren't going after nuclear subs anyway from what I gather.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by drew

As long as we settle for the required number of new, capable subs - who really cares where they come from?

We aren't going after nuclear subs anyway from what I gather.

IMO Nuclear subs would be the best option for patrolling the Arctic, but I can also understand sticking with Diesel/Electric. Even with US help the RCN would need to be build a Nuclear Engineering practice from the ground up, and would they even have the manpower to train and operate them.

I think Canada will eventually join AUKUS anyway. New Zealand is exploring joining under Pillar II with doesn't include the submarines, so that could be an option.

[kwoldtimer]

If $1.8B bears any relation to reality, Canada should pick up 8 or 10 of them. Seems like a serious bargain. I take it that they could operate under Arctic ice for some weeks at a time?

I wonder if CAF haven't already decided which sub they want? Shades of the F-35!

[drew]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I think Canada will eventually join AUKUS anyway. New Zealand is exploring joining under Pillar II with doesn't include the submarines, so that could be an option.

We are only joining if they get us in the name.

CAUKUS.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by drew

We are only joining if they get us in the name.

CAUKUS.

What would the name be if New Zealand joins too? CANZUKUSA?

[drew]

^CAZUKUS

of course if Trump gets elected in November, he will need to have the US first so:

USCAZUK

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by drew

As long as we settle for the required number of new, capable subs - who really cares where they come from?

We aren't going after nuclear subs anyway from what I gather.

Because despite what the government is messaging in public, AUKUS is about more than submarines and they are desperately trying to get some kind of AUKUS side deal so our industries don't get screwed in the long term.

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

IMO Nuclear subs would be the best option for patrolling the Arctic, but I can also understand sticking with Diesel/Electric. Even with US help the RCN would need to be build a Nuclear Engineering practice from the ground up, and would they even have the manpower to train and operate them.

I think Canada will eventually join AUKUS anyway. New Zealand is exploring joining under Pillar II with doesn't include the submarines, so that could be an option.

New Zealand has even less of a chance than us of getting a side deal. And no, we're not getting into AUKUS without seriously paying up. The very fact that they didn't even bother telling Canada that they were creating AUKUS should tell you what their level of trust and confidence is right now.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

What would the name be if New Zealand joins too? CANZUKUSA?

Five Spears.