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  #1901  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:00 AM
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there was an article i saw not too long ago that was about how car makers are surprised how fast consumers are buying electric vehicles and the high percentage that are planning to make their next vehicle purchase an electric one.

I know here in Vancouver Teslas are as common as Honda Civics are. So many of them

I'm looking forward to seeing some of these. Lucid motors is opening its first showroom in Canada soon in Vancouver.


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  #1902  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:09 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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You sure have said a lot about the resource sector in this post.
Just look at the whole coal rolling culturing. Or how often EVs get vandalized or charging spots blocked in rural areas. It's unfortunate that people seem to see somebody else's vehicle choice as a threat to them.
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  #1903  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:16 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
there was an article i saw not too long ago that was about how car makers are surprised how fast consumers are buying electric vehicles and the high percentage that are planning to make their next vehicle purchase an electric one.
All they made were ugly shitboxes like the Prius for years. It's why they struggle to understand actual consumer demand for EVs.

They are sort of right that people don't/didn't want their EVs.

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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
I know here in Vancouver Teslas are as common as Honda Civics are. So many of them
And EVs are just mainstreaming now. The next 3 years will see more development and models than the last decade.

But more than consumer cars, I'm actually excited for delivery and service vehicles to get electrified over the coming years. Ultimately, it's not 10 km commutes in EVs that will really cut emissions. It's the 50 km per day that the delivery van does or garbage truck or school bus does.
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  #1904  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 6:50 AM
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I saw a yellow cab, thats the name of the taxi company locally, the other day that was using a tesla as a taxi, all painted yellow etc. Apparently its the only one in Vancouver so far, but Kelowna and Victoria have some tesla taxis.



https://driveteslacanada.ca/model-3/...-in-vancouver/
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  #1905  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 9:37 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
The cultural decoupling between Alberta (and SK, NFLD and NS to lesser extent) and oil and gas is going to be really interesting for me over the decades to come. I can imagine that there's at least a few people who never imagined they'd see an electric F150 (with all the cultural connotations of that truck) come so soon.
Curious as to why you included NS in this.
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  #1906  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 10:09 AM
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Curious as to why you included NS in this.
Likely due to the amount of Maritimers (I include NS, NB, PEI) who do/did work in the oil patch in either western Canada or off Newfoundland.

I had a school mate who got into the oil extraction business in 1980 (worked his way up from roughneck to tool push and then in Oil Rig management). He has drilled for oil and NG all over the world. Spent quite a few years in West Africa if I recall correctly.
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  #1907  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 12:27 PM
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Towing is going to be the issue but a 300 mile range for light loads isn’t exactly small. Very few people make trips longer than that regularly.

And as others have mentioned, it will get longer.

Like many vehicles that go electric people try to think up specific situations they don’t work instead of the situations where they do work, and the reality is that most F-150s are sold to contractors or similar in cities where they make trips well within that range and generally with pretty light loads, and use it on the weekend to tow their light fishing boat to the lake or something. Which this should do with ease.
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  #1908  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 12:52 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Curious as to why you included NS in this.
NS actually has a decent sized oil sector and folks who travel between NS and AB. And if you go on EV forums there are some disproportionately high reports of vandalism out there for some reason. Not in the cities. But rural NS.
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  #1909  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 12:57 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Like many vehicles that go electric people try to think up specific situations they don’t work instead of the situations where they do work, and the reality is that most F-150s are sold to contractors or similar in cities where they make trips well within that range and generally with pretty light loads, and use it on the weekend to tow their light fishing boat to the lake or something. Which this should do with ease.
Yep. And given how much gas costs, it's easy to make the case for any fleet to be mostly electric and to keep a handful of gas/diesel F150s to tow.

The F150 is so popular in North America, that if Ford convinced 30% of EV customers to go electric, that would double the number of EV sales annually. And they'll get that proportion sooner than later (my guess is around 2025).
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  #1910  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:06 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
I saw a yellow cab, thats the name of the taxi company locally, the other day that was using a tesla as a taxi, all painted yellow etc. Apparently its the only one in Vancouver so far, but Kelowna and Victoria have some tesla taxis.
Taxis are such low hanging fruit. And it sucks governments haven't done more to help their electrification. Wouldn't take much. They need some charging infrastructure. And cities need to put in mandates for electrified vehicles for taxis. There should be no reason to have tailpipes on a taxi beyond 2025.
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  #1911  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Taxis are such low hanging fruit. And it sucks governments haven't done more to help their electrification. Wouldn't take much. They need some charging infrastructure. And cities need to put in mandates for electrified vehicles for taxis. There should be no reason to have tailpipes on a taxi beyond 2025.
In Vancouver the airport authority required that most of the taxi doing pickups at the airport had to be hybrid several years ago. The end result has shifted many to the Prius.

The other interesting technology to look at is hydrogen. Limited number of stations is what is currently holding it back but that is changing. Here is an example of how they work in the real world.

Video Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFswCrQL5xo
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  #1912  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:17 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
NS actually has a decent sized oil sector and folks who travel between NS and AB. And if you go on EV forums there are some disproportionately high reports of vandalism out there for some reason. Not in the cities. But rural NS.
Ahh, OK, I hadn't thought of that. I'm in the city so haven't really seen any negativity towards EVs here. People seem to like them.

But then, I guess my social circle must be small because I don't know anybody who works in the oil patch, either.

I thought you might have been referring to our oil refinery, but it closed around seven or eight years ago and has since been dismantled.
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  #1913  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:29 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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The problem with HFCEVs is the cost. Both of the vehicle and the fuel. At least with BEVs, the low fuel cost offsets the higher vehicle purchase price. With hydrogen, you're saving maybe $10-20 per fill compared to gas. For a car that costs $70k. There's a reason Toyota is running subsidized leases for cabbies in Vancouver that includes fuel costs.

That said, there's no need to pick and choose. Put in a ZEV mandate. And let taxi drivers decide. The government can subsidize a few hydrogen fill stations. Right now Vancouver has more hydrogen filling stations than most provinces in the country.
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  #1914  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 1:36 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Ahh, OK, I hadn't thought of that. I'm in the city so haven't really seen any negativity towards EVs here. People seem to like them.

But then, I guess my social circle must be small because I don't know anybody who works in the oil patch, either.

I thought you might have been referring to our oil refinery, but it closed around seven or eight years ago and has since been dismantled.
I'm actually really optimistic on what NS can/will do. Distances to travel are mostly shorter (akin to what the average Southern Ontarian might drive). The climate is moderate. And the offshore wind potential is high. I expect NS (and NB to a lesser extent) to sort of come from behind on this stuff with big leaps as various tech gets cheaper.
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  #1915  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 2:31 PM
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The Age of Oil is coming to an end. What does that mean for Canada?

At the headquarters of the International Energy Agency in Paris, there is a striking view of the Eiffel Tower. It presents a useful perspective on history, progress and change.

When the tower opened in 1889, the wrought-iron wonder was the world’s tallest structure. It held the title for four decades, until the completion of the Chrysler Building. There is an elegant permanence to the seemingly timeless landmark – yet, like all things, it is temporal.

The International Energy Agency was created by developed countries in 1974, after the oil crisis spiked the price of gasoline and rocked economies. The E in IEA would have more accurately been an O – for oil. The source of energy the IEA was most concerned with was oil, the 20th century’s economic lifeblood. Thinking about a more secure supply, Henry Kissinger, then United States Secretary of State, likened the oil crisis to the “economic equivalent of the Sputnik challenge of 1957.”

The IEA’s job was to foster co-operation among Western countries to better plan for oil’s future – the need for ever more oil was an enduring given, wasn’t it? Until a few years ago, the IEA was warning that massive amounts of money were constantly needed to be poured into developing new sources of oil, to ensure adequate supply.

But the energy market has been evolving, and so has the IEA. A turning point came in 2018, when the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said, to live up to the Paris Agreement, and to prevent radical changes in the weather, there would be a need for “rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society.”

Since then, two little words have become the easiest, and most popular, thing to say: net zero. The soft phrase obscures a much tougher reality – particularly for Canada.

This past week, a half-century after the IEA’s founding, the energy body whose answer to most energy questions used to be “oil,” unveiled a new self. The IEA has drawn up a detailed road map for getting the planet to net-zero emissions by 2050. If humanity takes its climate promises seriously, then this is the mountain that will have to be climbed.

It will mean that some things that have long been permanent – such as demand for oil – will no longer be so. The IEA says that, to meet carbon goals, the era of oil must begin to come to an end, and most electricity must be generated by the sun and wind.

In such a future, the challenge for Canada will be immense. One-quarter of our national emissions are from the oil and gas industry – the industry that has greatly enriched this country. The IEA’s road to net zero says the end of new oil and gas exploration should start now, as in this year. That doesn’t mean the oil sands gets shuttered – they can keep producing as global oil output is slashed by three-quarters over the next 30 years – but under the IEA’s prescription, no more new oil or gas should be sought.

A near-term future of less oil gas exploration and development, and thereafter long-term production decline, would be jarring to Canada’s economy, particularly to British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Newfoundland and Labrador and, of course, Alberta.

One may question the likelihood of the IEA’s timelines, or its focus on wind and solar. But it’s hard to disagree with the broad direction of what it’s both predicting and advocating: For carbon emissions to fall in the decades to come, the use of carbon fuels must also fall.

Canada has its own particular challenges and, globally, the hurdles are immense. In the 2020s, the required technology to stop using fossil fuels exists, yet, consider this: In solar power, according to the IEA, the largest solar array currently in existence would need to be replicated, every day, for the next 10 years.

There is a reward at the end of all this, and it’s not just a livable climate. The IEA predicts that, in the long run, the world economy would be better off. But for an oil-rich country such as Canada, an energy revolution means managing the eventual contraction of a huge industry that has long spun off jobs and wealth.

The IEA’s map to net zero is not the only one out there. But its publication, by a formerly oil-centric body, is a milestone in the world’s long, slow acceptance of the enormity and severity of climate heating. For the Canadian economy, change is coming, and it’s going to be a challenge.
Globe and Mail Editorial:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...an-for-canada/

Odd how little we've heard about the IEA's report which is being treated as a major break elsewhere. Their projections for the reduction of fossil fuel consumption and development has massive economic implications for Canada.

The Calgary Herald piece has some rather defensive takes from Kenney. But must important is this projection:

Quote:
Last fall, the IEA’s annual World Energy Report indicated oil demand under its baseline assessment would rebound after the pandemic to 100 million bpd within five years. Demand would then stabilize around 104 million bpd in 2040 under that scenario.

However, it would leave the world short of hitting a net-zero carbon emissions target.

Under the IEA’s new blueprint, global oil demand will not return to its pre-pandemic peak. Instead, consumption would drop to 72 million bpd by the end of this decade and then tumble to 24 million by 2050.

Oil prices would decrease by almost half by the end of this decade and sag to $24 a barrel in 2050, making many projects uneconomic.
Calgary Herald:
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...ent-for-canada
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  #1916  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 2:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
NS actually has a decent sized oil sector and folks who travel between NS and AB. And if you go on EV forums there are some disproportionately high reports of vandalism out there for some reason. Not in the cities. But rural NS.
I'm not surprised that there would be a strong urban/rural divide when it comes to attitudes regarding EVs, but I wonder whether rural areas vary much in terms of their attitudes on this front?

Obviously driving an electric F150 up in Grande Prairie or anyplace in Alberta where people wear I ♥ Canadian Oil & Gas or Bleed Black hoodies won't make you any friends. But what about places that aren't on the oil map? What if someone drives an EV in Altona, MB, or Capreol, ON? Would anyone care or even notice?
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  #1917  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Just look at the whole coal rolling culturing. Or how often EVs get vandalized or charging spots blocked in rural areas. It's unfortunate that people seem to see somebody else's vehicle choice as a threat to them.
The internet absolutely destroyed my city's economy 20 years ago and yet, look at how much time I spend on it!
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  #1918  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I'm not surprised that there would be a strong urban/rural divide when it comes to attitudes regarding EVs, but I wonder whether rural areas vary much in terms of their attitudes on this front?

Obviously driving an electric F150 up in Grande Prairie or anyplace in Alberta where people wear I ♥ Canadian Oil & Gas or Bleed Black hoodies won't make you any friends. But what about places that aren't on the oil map? What if someone drives an EV in Altona, MB, or Capreol, ON? Would anyone care or even notice?
I’d be more worried about driving any vehicle with Alberta plates in rural BC, than driving an EV in rural Alberta! This kind of Covid-icy has been ongoing for the past year and even spread to Alberta in retaliation but unlike BC’s premier we do something about it. I guess Albertans are different!

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/wa...license-plates

https://edmonton.citynews.ca/video/2...d-with-in-b-c/

https://www.kelownanow.com/watercool..._the_Albertans

On July 27, according to CTV News, John Horgan said that people with out-of-province license plates should either take public transit or change their license plates to avoid getting harassed by local residents in B.C.


https://www.narcity.com/john-horgan-...ndalized-in-bc

He believes he was targeted because of his B.C. plates. He is currently staying in Calgary for school. He is taking a pilot training course at the Springbank Airport.

“I mean, everyone is panicking, and everyone is afraid,” he said, referring to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

From the tow bill to new tires to the paint job, the total bill was estimated at around $5,000. But for Dansereau, it’s about more than the money.

“It wasn’t about the cost,” he said. “It was just making this right.

“I didn’t feel that Dominic should have been treated this way, and it doesn’t matter whose plates you have on your vehicles or where you’re from, we’re all neighbours. Let’s treat each other right.”


https://globalnews.ca/news/7822877/b...alism-calgary/
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  #1919  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 5:33 PM
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"Oil prices would decrease by almost half by the end of this decade and sag to $24 a barrel by 2050, making many projects uneconomic" is the key statement in that Calgary Herald opinion piece.

We will always need oil but due to the demand plunging, it will no longer be economically viable in Alberta or NFLD. It's not the commodity per se but rather the fact that it will become highly unprofitable and oil companies aren't going to keep these huge projects going costing them billions per year just to be swell guys.

This is what perplexes me about many Albertans and nearly all their politicians. They can't seem to get their head around the fact that it doesn't matter whether they believe in climate change or not, we are getting off oil for all our transportation, agricultural, manufacturing, and heating needs and they need to adapt to this reality fast.

Much of their resistance to change is part of the Alberta psyche. Albertans are use to, and have come to expect, that all busts, like the one they're in, will quickly be followed by another boom. Now they are starting to realize that this boom/bust cycle has come to an end and unless they quickly transform their economy, the boom will never return.
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  #1920  
Old Posted May 23, 2021, 6:13 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Yep. And given how much gas costs, it's easy to make the case for any fleet to be mostly electric and to keep a handful of gas/diesel F150s to tow.

The F150 is so popular in North America, that if Ford convinced 30% of EV customers to go electric, that would double the number of EV sales annually. And they'll get that proportion sooner than later (my guess is around 2025).
If I look at my own habits, it would make sense to have an electric pickup for my year-round city stuff and pay a trucking company for those times I'd have done a road trip with a diesel truck. (With Covid, it's been a couple years since the last time I did this anyway.)
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