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  #1901  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 1:03 PM
ScreamShatter ScreamShatter is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly Fan View Post
But remember: the CITC is designed to house only programmers, software engineers, and other young, creative, and high-tech types (hence the "Innovation and Technology" in the name of the building, and the innovative design of the interior spaces). Not your average Comcast corporate HQ types (not that there's anything wrong with them ).
I work for one of the largest technology firms in the area and in a heavily innovative technology area of the company. Most all the “hacker” types that I know live in the western burbs of Philly from KOP to Valley Forge. The only areas in Philly where these working professionals tend to live is Manayunk or the areas surrounding it.
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  #1902  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 2:33 PM
AbortedWalrus AbortedWalrus is offline
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I work for one of the largest technology firms in the area and in a heavily innovative technology area of the company. Most all the “hacker” types that I know live in the western burbs of Philly from KOP to Valley Forge. The only areas in Philly where these working professionals tend to live is Manayunk or the areas surrounding it.
As one of those hacker types I can say that most people I know in the industry who work in the city actually live in the city. The reason a lot live in the burbs though is because that's where all of the tech jobs used to be. KoP was the hotbed for it. Not so much anymore, more and more tech companies are coming to the city, because it's what younger college grads want right now.
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  #1903  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 3:19 PM
ichigo ichigo is offline
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We should probably move on from this topic. Do you guys really care about how many people live outside the city and commute in? Commuters spend plenty of money in the city and make the city better and more interesting. Plus with Comcast, FMC, Chop and many many other project going up, more and more people will move into the city. Center city is starting to look great as far as job market goes and places to live. Next 3 years is going to change the city for the better!
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  #1904  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 3:28 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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This is such a silly debate.

Making across the board declarations about where certain "types" of people live based on their individual experiences is just silly. Regardless of what your "experience" is, it doesn't acknowledge that cultures of companies are completely different.

There are those companies (regardless of field/skillset) that attract (unknowingly or knowingly) the pleated khaki straight and narrow suburban/corporate type and there are others that attract the I wouldn't live in the suburbs to save my life types. The irony is that the latter types of companies also exist in the suburbs (where many reverse commute from the city). I used to work for one of them...a company near Princeton at which, literally, every single person below the age of 30, maybe even 40, commuted from Philadelphia.

So, let's just stop it. Admittedly, the commute on 76 makes that a bit unbearable, but that is part of the reason why many of those companies are opening satellite offices in Center City now. Eventually, alot of those companies will probably make the jump completely (the same thing is happening in NYC...I believe it was UBS that moved ten years ago to Stamford because the old white guys wanted to be near home...and now are moving back to lower Manhattan because they realize they can't attract talent to save their lives, because what young Finance type wants to work in Stamford unless it's literally their only option?).

The same thing is happening in Philadelphia, albeit on a smaller scale. But, a trickle will become an avalanche at some point, as the city becomes even cleaner, safer, and the number of people who abhor Philadelphia and have perceptions that are skewed from one visit 15 years ago but live 30 minutes outside of the city (there used to be many, now there are fewer...). Even the old white guys now like being in town, even if just for work and a night out on the town, and the detractors are becoming increasingly rare and if not rare, irrelevant.

Because again, if you have options, who wants to work for an angry old white guy who plops his company in Exton or Downingtown simply because/out of spite? Eventually, that will be the exception and not the rule.

Now, as for Comcast. Of course a single employer isn't the explicit reason for constructing a new residential tower, but it will plop a lot of demand into an already constrained market.

And as for Riverwalk or view or whatever it's called...I think it's a really handsome and sophisticated proposal. In fact, when I saw it, I thought wow, that might be the condo project that would make me leave my rowhouse (granted, I don't live in Philly anymore (work), but I still own my house there). I also think it's an incredibly savvy location and a smart site design. I mean, right across from 30th Street (literally) with 40 minute single seat rides to NYC not that far in the future? Yes please. I might even be able to commute to work in NYC. From there. Awesome.
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  #1905  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 4:15 PM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
This is such a silly debate.

Making across the board declarations about where certain "types" of people live based on their individual experiences is just silly. Regardless of what your "experience" is, it doesn't acknowledge that cultures of companies are completely different.

There are those companies (regardless of field/skillset) that attract (unknowingly or knowingly) the pleated khaki straight and narrow suburban/corporate type and there are others that attract the I wouldn't live in the suburbs to save my life types. The irony is that the latter types of companies also exist in the suburbs (where many reverse commute from the city). I used to work for one of them...a company near Princeton at which, literally, every single person below the age of 30, maybe even 40, commuted from Philadelphia.

So, let's just stop it. Admittedly, the commute on 76 makes that a bit unbearable, but that is part of the reason why many of those companies are opening satellite offices in Center City now. Eventually, alot of those companies will probably make the jump completely (the same thing is happening in NYC...I believe it was UBS that moved ten years ago to Stamford because the old white guys wanted to be near home...and now are moving back to lower Manhattan because they realize they can't attract talent to save their lives, because what young Finance type wants to work in Stamford unless it's literally their only option?).

The same thing is happening in Philadelphia, albeit on a smaller scale. But, a trickle will become an avalanche at some point, as the city becomes even cleaner, safer, and the number of people who abhor Philadelphia and have perceptions that are skewed from one visit 15 years ago but live 30 minutes outside of the city (there used to be many, now there are fewer...). Even the old white guys now like being in town, even if just for work and a night out on the town, and the detractors are becoming increasingly rare and if not rare, irrelevant.

Because again, if you have options, who wants to work for an angry old white guy who plops his company in Exton or Downingtown simply because/out of spite? Eventually, that will be the exception and not the rule.

Now, as for Comcast. Of course a single employer isn't the explicit reason for constructing a new residential tower, but it will plop a lot of demand into an already constrained market.

And as for Riverwalk or view or whatever it's called...I think it's a really handsome and sophisticated proposal. In fact, when I saw it, I thought wow, that might be the condo project that would make me leave my rowhouse (granted, I don't live in Philly anymore (work), but I still own my house there). I also think it's an incredibly savvy location and a smart site design. I mean, right across from 30th Street (literally) with 40 minute single seat rides to NYC not that far in the future? Yes please. I might even be able to commute to work in NYC. From there. Awesome.
agreed on many accounts

Do you need to change your name to N3rd&Brown now?
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  #1906  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 4:20 PM
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[QUOTE=3rd&Brown;6494195]This is such a silly debate.

Because again, if you have options, who wants to work for an angry old white guy who plops his company in Exton or Downingtown simply because/out of spite? Eventually, that will be the exception and not the rule



Wow , [ Ouote ] " simply because / spite ?
Out of the eight counties that make up the PMA , Philadelphia is the smallest in land area .... Not my
fault . Surrounding counties ( with all that undeveloped land ) saw cash cows that could improve
there tax base , employment opportunities , life style , etc .
At the same time .... I believe the late 50's or early 60's , The powers that be did not provide the
incentives for those " old white guys " to wade through the tax , construction , transportation , safety
and other concerns that hindered their desire to remain in the city . FWIW , I hope the city can
regain the status .... you and many others ( including myself ) hope it can
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  #1907  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 4:52 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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[QUOTE=Outta here;6494331]
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
This is such a silly debate.

Because again, if you have options, who wants to work for an angry old white guy who plops his company in Exton or Downingtown simply because/out of spite? Eventually, that will be the exception and not the rule



Wow , [ Ouote ] " simply because / spite ?
Out of the eight counties that make up the PMA , Philadelphia is the smallest in land area .... Not my
fault . Surrounding counties ( with all that undeveloped land ) saw cash cows that could improve
there tax base , employment opportunities , life style , etc .
At the same time .... I believe the late 50's or early 60's , The powers that be did not provide the
incentives for those " old white guys " to wade through the tax , construction , transportation , safety
and other concerns that hindered their desire to remain in the city . FWIW , I hope the city can
regain the status .... you and many others ( including myself ) hope it can
I know the reason why the situation is the way it is. I'm completely aware of all of the various historic factors that lead to Philadelphia's decline...many of them self imposed, some of them not. And many of the people who left did so rightly.

My point is...there are a lot of people who hold onto those views, which are outdated...and if they don't change their tune, especially as company owners and executives who are responsible for hiring talent, they do so at the peril of their business and financial success. Because the reality is that TODAY, young, smart, educated people want to be IN THE CITY. Maybe not forever, but at least for their single life...and if you can't attract that person and instead are catering your choice (for location) to the almost irrelevant (sad but true) 45 year old with 2 kids...then you (and your business) risk becoming irrelevant.

I know city life isn't for everyone (I don't want to have that debate). But if your net is cast in a dynamic city (especially when the economy improves and people have more choices) you're going to catch more fish than if you cast it in some bucolic suburb 50 minutes from town...without traffic. It's just a fact and the savvy people in leadership from companies know that. For that reason, it is imperative that Philadelphia change its tax structure because the trickle would be an avalanche, like today, if it were already the case (reformed BPT etc). I believe Philadelphia is heading there (Bill Green's bill in Council is the first major step in that direction) and when it happens holy cow, get out of the way. And in conjunction with the expansion of CHOP, PENN, etc, NE Corridor improvements. Done.

We're also in a very unique time historically, due to a confluence of factors, (and will hopefully stay there forever) which is obviously resulting in the resurgence of cities everywhere in North America (though Philly I believe is doing better than most...esp relative to its past...thank you Rendell and Nutter (whether you like them or not)), which makes it even more imperative that Philly pounce NOW. Because that moment might pass.

One last point. Demographics in the city are also changing...and it is close to a tipping point where even our leadership is getting on board. Whereas in the past all of Council were essentially poverty pimps who purposefully instituted and supported proposals that would further the decline of Philadelphia by putting undue financial burden on it...the growing, loud, affluent, squeeky constituent base has changed in the most unlikely places (think Clark's district, Blackwell's district, Kenyatta's district). Even they're getting on the growth boat. They know if they don't, they risk doing so at their own peril. In fact, it is almost certain Kenyatta will be out of a job next time. The demographics in his district are changing so lightning quick that even the most creative gerrymander won't save him because his district is literally being swallowed/suffocated by gentrification/repopulation from EVERY direction. Unless it literally skips from West of Broad to Hunting Park, he's OUT OF HERE.

With all of that...my point is...All of the stars are aligned right now. It's a really really incredible time we live in to see and experience Philadelphia (as evidence by all of the proposals in this thread...in an economy that is barely growing no less). The energy is palpable. I just hope all of the negative nancies on here realize that and quit complaining. I hate that I'm no longer a part of it. And for all of the envy of NYC. I live here. It's not the same. Yes, it's amazing. But the people here aren't a part of the change. They're not integral to it. They don't feel it the way you feel it in Philadelphia in part because it's such a transient and huge place that even big developments don't register an echo. It's almost anonymous. And believe me, there is a stunning amount of terrible architecture amongst new projects in NY. You just don't see it because its not downtown. It's in the boros, and it's everywhere and it's stunningly mundane. If you saw the quality of infill in Crown Heights where I live in Brooklyn, where you can charge $3,000 for a two bedroom apartment now and $2,000+ for a one bedroom (point being high rents don't equate to better quality), you'd organize a protest on the National Mall. It's that bad. And the rents are what you can charge a few blocks from 18th & Walnut. So please, keep some perspective. Those dazzling buildings in NYC that people gawk over charge $4,000+ for a 1 bedroom. $7,000+ for a two bedroom. $3600 for a studio. No shit. I don't want that to be the case in Philadelphia. Ever. It would stop being Philadelphia if that were the case.

Last edited by 3rd&Brown; Mar 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM.
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  #1908  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 7:59 PM
pablo16 pablo16 is offline
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City needs you

3rd&Brown - Please move back to Philly and run for Mayor.
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  #1909  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 8:35 PM
Philly Fan Philly Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
If you saw the quality of infill in Crown Heights where I live in Brooklyn, where you can charge $3,000 for a two bedroom apartment now and $2,000+ for a one bedroom (point being high rents don't equate to better quality), you'd organize a protest on the National Mall. It's that bad. And the rents are what you can charge a few blocks from 18th & Walnut.
Amazing. When I lived in Brooklyn in the early 1980s, the only gentrified (or gentrifying) neighborhoods were what I would call the Brooklyn Heights cluster (Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, and Carroll Gardens) and Park Slope. Neighborhoods like Crown Heights, Greenpoint, etc. were anything but. Brooklyn is a real object lesson on how cities can turn around quite dramatically in a relatively short amount of time, and on a massive scale. Of course, we're seeing a similar phenomenon here in NoLibs, Fishtown, Kensington, University City, etc. It boggles the mind to think what could happen in Philly if NYC and DC were only an affordable 30-minute high-speed train ride away.
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  #1910  
Old Posted Mar 14, 2014, 9:49 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly Fan View Post
Amazing. When I lived in Brooklyn in the early 1980s, the only gentrified (or gentrifying) neighborhoods were what I would call the Brooklyn Heights cluster (Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, and Carroll Gardens) and Park Slope. Neighborhoods like Crown Heights, Greenpoint, etc. were anything but. Brooklyn is a real object lesson on how cities can turn around quite dramatically in a relatively short amount of time, and on a massive scale. Of course, we're seeing a similar phenomenon here in NoLibs, Fishtown, Kensington, University City, etc. It boggles the mind to think what could happen in Philly if NYC and DC were only an affordable 30-minute high-speed train ride away.
Agreed. The hottest street in all of NYC right now is in Crown Heights. Specifically, Franklin Avenue between Eastern Parkway and not quite Atlantic. A new restaurant is opening almost every month.

I moved to my place in Dec 2013, pay $1700/month for 2 bedrooms and 2 baths (and I live alone, no less...I'll stop bragging). The point is, when I rented it, my realtor told me had I been there TWO MONTHS earlier, the rent would have been $1400. Now, you can't find a renovated pre-war like mine in Crown Heights for less than $2800, even in the farther reaches (3-4 Avenues from Franklin). Closer to Franklin, it's more like $3400.

That was a year ago. Thank god for rent stabilization.
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  #1911  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 12:33 AM
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relnahe relnahe is offline
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Surprised no one has brought up the Boyd. I use to be on board with the Friends of Boyd crowd but now they just sound silly. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/03/14/developer-gets-approval-to-convert-boyd-theater/
Quote:
The Philadelphia Historical Commission has approved a developer’s ‘hardship’ request to tear down most of the interior of the historic Boyd Theater, near 19th and Chestnut Streets, to redevelop it.
After lengthy testimony from lawyers, developers, architects, engineers, consultants – and preservationists – the Historical Commission voted 9-1 – with one abstention – to approve the financial hardship application.
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  #1912  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 2:16 AM
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It's a really really incredible time we live in to see and experience Philadelphia
IT'S A REALLY REALLY INCREDIBLE TIME WE LIVE IN TO SEE AND EXPERIENCE PHILADELPHIA!!!!!!!! :babyeat:
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  #1913  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 2:36 PM
Plokoon11 Plokoon11 is offline
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The one thing I am worried about right now is the economy, what if it goes down the next 4 months, from the russia, and other things. How is that going to effect all these proposals. I know that the FMC, and CTIC has a low chance of being effected. Could Philadelphia's economy support its own system of jobs and wealth if the rest of the economy becomes poor again?
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  #1914  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 2:44 PM
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R5Ryder R5Ryder is offline
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[QUOTE=Outta here;6494331]
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
This is such a silly debate.

Because again, if you have options, who wants to work for an angry old white guy who plops his company in Exton or Downingtown simply because/out of spite? Eventually, that will be the exception and not the rule



Wow , [ Ouote ] " simply because / spite ?
Out of the eight counties that make up the PMA , Philadelphia is the smallest in land area .... Not my
fault . Surrounding counties ( with all that undeveloped land ) saw cash cows that could improve
there tax base , employment opportunities , life style , etc .
At the same time .... I believe the late 50's or early 60's , The powers that be did not provide the
incentives for those " old white guys " to wade through the tax , construction , transportation , safety
and other concerns that hindered their desire to remain in the city . FWIW , I hope the city can
regain the status .... you and many others ( including myself ) hope it can
I grew up in Downingtown. I work for a white guy who built a huge company in Malvern. In 2003 I moved to Manayunk because I was afraid of the "Scary" city. In 2010 after long outgrowing Manayunk and seeing more of the city and how it was more alive than I ever thought (mostly thanks to various GFs), I moved in to Center City. Then, summer 2013, I bought a home in South Philly (13th and Reed-ish) - a location that years ago I would never have even considered.

So with each subsequent move, I've worstened my commute, to the point where I now take two subways to get to 30th to ride an Amtrak to Paoli and then a bus to work. But it's worth it, because of what is hapening in the city and in neighborhoods like mine.

Now there's talk of a Wegmans in the Blatstein development on the NE corner of Broad and Washington. Various sources are completely refuting it, while others are standing behind it. If that happens, while it goes against various things that I think make the city great (don't get me wrong - I think Wegmans is the greatest thing ever, I just don't want huge stores like that suburbanizing the city) it is a total game changer for neighborhood desireability, even though where I am is pretty desireable already.
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  #1915  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 3:16 PM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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[QUOTE=R5Ryder;6495647]
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Originally Posted by Outta here View Post

I grew up in Downingtown. I work for a white guy who built a huge company in Malvern. In 2003 I moved to Manayunk because I was afraid of the "Scary" city. In 2010 after long outgrowing Manayunk and seeing more of the city and how it was more alive than I ever thought (mostly thanks to various GFs), I moved in to Center City. Then, summer 2013, I bought a home in South Philly (13th and Reed-ish) - a location that years ago I would never have even considered.

So with each subsequent move, I've worstened my commute, to the point where I now take two subways to get to 30th to ride an Amtrak to Paoli and then a bus to work. But it's worth it, because of what is hapening in the city and in neighborhoods like mine.

Now there's talk of a Wegmans in the Blatstein development on the NE corner of Broad and Washington. Various sources are completely refuting it, while others are standing behind it. If that happens, while it goes against various things that I think make the city great (don't get me wrong - I think Wegmans is the greatest thing ever, I just don't want huge stores like that suburbanizing the city) it is a total game changer for neighborhood desireability, even though where I am is pretty desireable already.
Ha this post hit home to me (though never thought scary city but will say where I live now I decided against 7 years ago, now wish I bought then) Am at 10/11th and Carpenter - love it

On the Wegmans - with the 9th/Italian Market so close it is like polar opposites in a sense - Can they harmoniously co-exist?

More I think about it yes. Lots of nay-sayers but have also heard that this is actually going to happen - announced around Easter (we will see but have heard from some folks that have a vested interest that it actually will happen - maybe movie tavern too - will see on all)

I despised the site plan at B&W when I first saw but now see the point - odd thing is a Wegmans coming to S Philly sort of in a weird way shows the city arrived - for good and bad - also makes more sense out of 1,000+ parking spots

I say bring it on - think will actually spawn more urban development in the area directly around mid term.
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  #1916  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 3:36 PM
mPhilly mPhilly is offline
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Originally Posted by R5Ryder View Post

So with each subsequent move, I've worstened my commute, to the point where I now take two subways to get to 30th to ride an Amtrak to Paoli and then a bus to work. But it's worth it, because of what is hapening in the city and in neighborhoods like mine.
That's an insane commute. I love Philly but I have a feeling you love it more than I do! I walk 5 minutes to work, that's what I love most about CC. The thing I hate the most, residential street PARKING, hands down. (And yes I do need a car).
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  #1917  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 3:44 PM
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That's an insane commute. I love Philly but I have a feeling you love it more than I do! I walk 5 minutes to work, that's what I love most about CC. The thing I hate the most, residential street PARKING, hands down. (And yes I do need a car).
I do love Philly, but it's also about hating the suburbs. I appreciate the diversity of my neighborhood, and the opportunities that I have to get involved in things and events that I get to go to that if I lived out by my work would require me to make an "event" out of it rather than just walk or take a short cab ride home from something.

The commute blows, but driving on 76 is even worse. I've gotten used to it. Ideally I'd work in Center City and walk to my office, but I have a good deal at my currrent job and work for a great company. It would be hard to walk away. I do volunteer work that gives me the opportunity to spend one day a week at 16th and market (with an amazing view!), so that's pretty cool.
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  #1918  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 4:51 PM
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I work for one of the largest technology firms in the area and in a heavily innovative technology area of the company. Most all the “hacker” types that I know live in the western burbs of Philly from KOP to Valley Forge. The only areas in Philly where these working professionals tend to live is Manayunk or the areas surrounding it.
I find this post to be inaccurate. First, there's a big difference between "innovation" and "hacking", though the two are not mutually exclusive. I work in information security, and regularly use outside "hackers" to put applications through vulnerability tests.

A lot of great local talent is coming out of the U City area, usually Drexel grads who stay there. It's true that a lot of transplants or suburban grads tend to stay in Wayne, Ardmore, or as you stated Manayunk (until they turn 25 and then Conshohocken), but I've found that more city grads are staying in the city now than ever before. I work in Malvern, yet work with Temple grads who have established their permanent residences in Center City. I purchased a home in E Paassyunk. As I stated, there's a lot of talent in UCity.

This is counter to the trend of 5-10 years ago, where as soon as a grad landed a job like mine, they relocated. Advances in security allowing remote access and "virtual offices" have given more people to live where they choose, as opposed to what is convenient for their jobs.

That being said, we've all said to ourselves that we'd love to be able to walk to work, and the facts are simply that a lot of good IT work is simply not in the city. I don't know how many opportunities this will create, but if it does accelerate the accumulation or retention of IT talent in the city, then it could influence other companies to have a city presence, which can only be good for everyone involved.
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  #1919  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2014, 5:03 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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The one thing I am worried about right now is the economy, what if it goes down the next 4 months, from the russia, and other things. How is that going to effect all these proposals. I know that the FMC, and CTIC has a low chance of being effected. Could Philadelphia's economy support its own system of jobs and wealth if the rest of the economy becomes poor again?
Philadelphia never seems to be affected much by the economy. As long as there is still demand, there will still be a need to build. Financing may be harder to come by for developers, but projects will still get off the ground.

CITC, FMC, SLS and One Riverside, 1601 Vine and CHOP's new building at 700 Schuylkill Ave are pretty much a definite go. Already have full financing and approvals. The office buildings have tenants, etc.

W Hotel has financing and full approvals, but I'll believe that's built when site prep starts.

The other projects are just proposals at this point. Anything could happen.
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  #1920  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2014, 1:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreamShatter View Post
I work for one of the largest technology firms in the area and in a heavily innovative technology area of the company. Most all the “hacker” types that I know live in the western burbs of Philly from KOP to Valley Forge. The only areas in Philly where these working professionals tend to live is Manayunk or the areas surrounding it.
That's because they live with their parents.
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