CHICAGO | General Discussions

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Toasty Joe

I know we can't really compare to NYC anymore, but Grand Hyatt redevelopment came out with their design today. It looks amazing, something like the Thompson Center location could use, and with a 500-key hotel on top. Wish we had some grander aspirations and more of this instead of 5.5 simultaneous mega-developments trying to get traction and coming up short of inspiring.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...&postcount=760

Comparing to NYC is unfair due to obvious reasons, Chicago is still killing it.

I wonder how likely a supertall is for the Thompson Center, if not, what would they put there? A boring 500 footer? Seems like a waste of a good site.

There's an 1,100 footer under construction right now and a 1,400 very likely to be built. Chicago is doing just fine in the skyscraper department

Yea (more like 1200 and it's not UC anymore). This is one of the best cycles in the city's history though, and "very likely" seems optimistic but we shall see. If we get lucky there's also a (potentially taller) Parcel I and maybe the second NEMA tower. Throw One Central in there and Chicago could have 10 supertalls by roof alone in 10-15 years, not to mention all of the other tall but not 300+ projects.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

I dont know the exact stats, but the residential population of the loop has grown from something like zero to 20,000 people in the past 10 years or so.

Although it seems like it, there were definitely more than 0 in The Loop a decade ago LOL. But this also depends on what you mean by "The Loop" as it's an official community area, which goes down to basically Roosevelt as a boundary. The latest estimated population figure for 2019, as of a few months ago, is 38,655 people living in the entire community area. The official 2010 population for The Loop was 29,283. The way it gets complicated though is that the estimates are tied to not the official population of 2010 but the estimates which were 19,993. Therefore the estimate is actually that the population nearly doubled from 2010 to 2019 there. It's entirely possible that there's actually over 45,000 people in the Loop today, or would be if not for what I'm sure resulted in population loss due to COVID-19 and other events.

If you're talking about north of Harrison though only.. Lakeshore East specifically has 8919 people (up from 5069 in 2013 - a gain of 3850 people, or +76%). The area between State, Michigan, Randolph, and Madison actually lost a few thousand people, estimated, between 2013 and 2019. The area south of that down to Harrison gained some of what the previous area lost. The other side of the Loop from basically State St to the river increased something like 4600 people from 2010 to 2019. In other words, what most people would think of as "The Loop" including Lakeshore East gained probably more like 10K people from 2010 to 2019.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by marothisu

The other side of the Loop from basically State St to the river increased something like 4600 people from 2010 to 2019. In other words, what most people would think of as "The Loop" including Lakeshore East gained probably more like 10K people from 2010 to 2019.

Not trying to get into a "no true Scotsman" argument but I think when we talk about Loop residential that Lakeshore East and anything south of Congress (Printer's Row, Dearborn Park) would be excluded. So Congress, Michigan, Wacker, and Wacker. These are all wide streets and major psychic barriers defining the Loop.

Historically there's a difference too, Lakeshore East and South Loop were historically industrial and transitioned to residential from a clean slate after the industry left. The Loop is an office, shopping, government, and entertainment district, but residential has "muscled in" especially in historic buildings that are no longer ideal for office but can't be torn down. The defining aspect of living in the Loop is coexisting with the office/government uses.

I think people recognize there are a lot of benefits to living in the Loop but a lot of hassles, too. Most residential buildings don't have parking. The streets tend to be pretty quiet at night which can be eerie to some. Congestion and noise are pretty bad. The streets are concrete canyons, with very little green. Summer festivals and political protests can be very disruptive.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Not trying to get into a "no true Scotsman" argument but I think when we talk about Loop residential that Lakeshore East and anything south of Congress (Printer's Row, Dearborn Park) would be excluded. So Congress, Michigan, Wacker, and Wacker. These are all wide streets and major psychic barriers defining the Loop.

Historically there's a difference too, Lakeshore East and South Loop were historically industrial and transitioned to residential from a clean slate after the industry left. The Loop is an office, shopping, government, and entertainment district, but residential has "muscled in" especially in historic buildings that are no longer ideal for office but can't be torn down. The defining aspect of living in the Loop is coexisting with the office/government uses.

I agree - that's why my message talked about the official "The Loop" definition versus the actual meat of the area. The residential population of the area bounded by the trains in the last decade is probably under +5000 change.

[mark0]

"Summer festivals and political protests can be very disruptive"

I lived in the Loop for a couple years and loved it. Right after the '08 crash and deals were everywhere. We were newly married, no children and having a blast picking a train and going to different neighborhoods all the time. We also walked to work on N. Michigan Ave. and frequented the many finer and not so fine drinking establishments dotting the downtown area. I do hope the vibe is still the same now though, back then even with the recession still lingering there was so much street life and things to do, retail, cultural and dining. It all just seems so dead now, Macy's is a shell of it's former self, a lot of small little places are just gone and the offices are deserted.

As for protests, I was shocked how many there were and how loud they could be. We were there 2 CPS strikes ago and that was a very loud, obnoxious series of marches of angry, overweight, middle aged loud mouthed women and soi bois. Then there was some Palestinian marches that were large but not as obnoxious as the CTU militants. There was also a lot of noise for random parades. My suggestion is High floor = less noise.

[SamInTheLoop]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I think people recognize there are a lot of benefits to living in the Loop but a lot of hassles, too. Most residential buildings don't have parking. The streets tend to be pretty quiet at night which can be eerie to some. Congestion and noise are pretty bad. The streets are concrete canyons, with very little green. Summer festivals and political protests can be very disruptive.

Yes, clearly Loop living is not for everyone. I certainly understand why some folks would never do it. For me, it was the best. The convenience, living amidst a true mix of uses and activities, the buzz of special events - parades, marathons (although not Loop specific), the marches, protests, concerts, the arts, institutions, commerce, government, retail, entertainment, dining, parks, river, lake and yes residential. I liked all of it. The walking to work and literally everywhere else, and the lack of parking (well, cheap parking anyway!....to me this was also a positive). And, a steady increase in evening activity with continually increasing residential and hotel development. I think much of the Central and Eastern Loop is extraordinarily well-positioned for decades of continued residential, hotel, foot traffic and 24/7ish growth....or at least 18-20/7 - I don't see late night clubs joining the mix. And I truly think residential really is among the highest and best uses (with some competition certainly) for a lot of this real estate.

[uaarkson]

LOL imagine living in the Loop and complaining about noise

[pilsenarch]

Don't forget that the loop is considered a very large college campus as well... maybe someone can get more accurate figures, but 'in season' I believe it includes more than 60,000 students, many of which now live downtown in dorms, micro apartments, shared living apartment, etc...

[jtown,man]

From my short time in Chicago I consider the Loop anything north of Ida B Wells. I hate crossing that street, the red light lasts forever.

I don't know if yall keep up with the market, but both condos and rentals are doing horrible in the Loop+South Loop+ Near North. I moved into a new place(half a block from my old place) and saved nearly 20% while getting a much better and bigger place.

Covid, new working arrangements, and crime have made this area less diserable. The whole "tale of two cities" is certainly still here, a simple crime map shows that, but its not like the central area isn't a hotbed of criminal activity too. How many folks are gonna say to themselves "lets move to a place where we can get twice as much home, less taxes, 90% less crime, and maybe be closer to family etc.?" Many. Sure, you lose the city assets, but at what costs should those be attained? The CTA trains are barely rideable, so much crime. The buses seem to be a bright spot right now, which is awesome, but still.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

From my short time in Chicago I consider the Loop anything north of Ida B Wells. I hate crossing that street, the red light lasts forever.

I don't know if yall keep up with the market, but both condos and rentals are doing horrible in the Loop+South Loop+ Near North. I moved into a new place(half a block from my old place) and saved nearly 20% while getting a much better and bigger place.

Covid, new working arrangements, and crime have made this area less diserable. The whole "tale of two cities" is certainly still here, a simple crime map shows that, but its not like the central area isn't a hotbed of criminal activity too. How many folks are gonna say to themselves "lets move to a place where we can get twice as much home, less taxes, 90% less crime, and maybe be closer to family etc.?" Many. Sure, you lose the city assets, but at what costs should those be attained? The CTA trains are barely rideable, so much crime. The buses seem to be a bright spot right now, which is awesome, but still.

Global pandemic lead to economic downturn, which lead to unbelievably high job losses, which historically has also ended up as a causative factor for increases in crime, and especially homicides. And this is happening in every major city in the country: https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime...des-rose-2020/

There's no complicated calculus to any of this, not sure why people cannot understand this. As the pandemic subsides/vaccinations lead to measurable herd immunity, jobs will rebound, the economy will rebound (in addition to $2 TRILLION of capital that was frozen up during the pandemic being pumped back into the economy), and things will stabilize. The grass is green, the sky is blue, spring is just around the corner, and Chicago will thrive again. It actually really is that simple.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by sentinel

Global pandemic lead to economic downturn, which lead to unbelievably high job losses, which historically has also ended up as a causative factor for increases in crime, and especially homicides. And this is happening in every major city in the country: https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime...des-rose-2020/

There's no complicated calculus to any of this, not sure why people cannot understand this. As the pandemic subsides/vaccinations lead to measurable herd immunity, jobs will rebound, the economy will rebound (in addition to $2 TRILLION of capital that was frozen up during the pandemic being pumped back into the economy), and things will stabilize. The grass is green, the sky is blue, spring is just around the corner, and Chicago will thrive again. It actually really is that simple.

Exactly. And for the "many" people ready to flee to the suburbs, there are plenty who would take their place. Some people value city amenities more highly than others, nothing wrong with either viewpoint.

[Kngkyle]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I don't know if yall keep up with the market, but both condos and rentals are doing horrible in the Loop+South Loop+ Near North. I moved into a new place(half a block from my old place) and saved nearly 20% while getting a much better and bigger place.

This is exactly why I'm looking at picking up a 2nd home in the Loop or Near North later this month. Buy the dip! I believe after the pandemic subsides we're in for another roaring-20s and the city is going to be the hot place to be once again.

[Chicago_Forever]

The Loop is and will always be a desirable place to live for me and I think to anyone who enjoys the convenience it offers. I understand some people need to live right on top of all the action but I think being in a location with easy access to everything is even better, and for me, the Loop provides that. I used to live in River North, next to 401 N. Wabash and really miss how convenient it was in terms of getting to work, shopping, bars, restaurants, transit and the lakefront. I know that's not technically the Loop but it's close enough. It's been 4 years since I've bought in University Village and although I like my current neighborhood, I'd move to the Loop in a heartbeat if the right opportunity presented itself.

[gebs]

As someone who lives in the area, I've definitely seen a fair share of properties hit the market. I've spoken with a few real estate agents and they confirm that selling places in the city isn't what it was in 2019. Listing prices have gone down and may continue to do so, with some apartment buildings dropping rents to lure in tenants.

That said, I agree with both sentinel and Handro. My addition to the conversation is that making the city more affordable (even if it's due to a generational pandemic) is good news for anyone who had wanted to move but couldn't. This dip will likely create opporunities for young professionals and families who want to make the leap and take root in city living.

For all its current woes, the city isn't going anywhere.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by gebs

As someone who lives in the area, I've definitely seen a fair share of properties hit the market. I've spoken with a few real estate agents and they confirm that selling places in the city isn't what it was in 2019. Listing prices have gone down and may continue to do so, with some apartment buildings dropping rents to lure in tenants.

That said, I agree with both sentinel and Handro. My addition to the conversation is that making the city more affordable (even if it's due to a generational pandemic) is good news for anyone who had wanted to move but couldn't. This dip will likely create opporunities for young professionals and families who want to make the leap and take root in city living.

For all its current woes, the city isn't going anywhere.

Yep, my wife and I bought a place (2 br in the loop proper with a low HOA for under 300) that we almost surely would not have been able to afford a year ago. low interest rates and temporary reduced demand = great time to buy.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Yep, my wife and I bought a place (2 br in the loop proper with a low HOA for under 300) that we almost surely would not have been able to afford a year ago. low interest rates and temporary reduced demand = great time to buy.

What a smoking deal!

2 beds with low HOA in the freaking loop for under $300K!?!

Chicago really is the best big city in america to be a regular guy.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

What a smoking deal!

2 beds with low HOA in the freaking loop for under $300K!?!

Chicago really is the best big city in america to be a regular guy.

That's insane, that could easily be 1-2 million in NY or California.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

That's insane, that could easily be 1-2 million in NY or California.

Exactly why my wife and I are considering a move back to Chicago from NYC this year (well she never actually lived in Chicago but yeah..). We are so used to NYC prices - the cost of our 1 bedroom apartment is the equivalent of the mortgage portion of a $750K condo (after downpayment). The 1 bedroom condos in the building next to us start at $1.1M and 20 year old high rises down the street start in the $800s, but the HOA is literally $3600/mo (wtf?).

We'd be looking for a 3 bedroom place in Chicago - who knows where but downtown isn't off the table. It's kind of insane because not far south from where I used to live in Gold Coast, there is a decent 3 bedroom condo (1622 sq ft) for under $700K right now where even with HOA and estimated property taxes, after 20% down... it's only a few hundred dollars per month more than what we pay for our 1 bedroom in NYC..

[Tombstoner]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

That's insane, that could easily be 1-2 million in NY or California.

Kind of hard to say unless you see the property in question. It could be an amazing deal (and I hope for SIGSEGV it was) but there are a number of Loop properties that are poorly located/no view/need extensive rehab/no amenities, etc. Good for future investment, perhaps... Something for 1-2M in a nice part of LA or NYC you could expect a very turnkey 850-1050 sqft. As marothisu says, there are certainly insanely overpriced properties in NYC, but it's not like Chicago is 75% cheaper.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

What a smoking deal!

2 beds with low HOA in the freaking loop for under $300K!?!

Chicago really is the best big city in america to be a regular guy.

Well to be fair, "low" is relative (this is still ~$500), but definitely on the low side for a high-rise. There's no gym or dog spa, but we'll survive. Probably the biggest drawback is if we ever get a car in the future, the building has no parking so we'd have to pay $$ for a loop garage spot.

And the previous owner redid the wood floors / walls/ appliances not too long ago. Doubt we'll have to do any significant work in the next 5 years.

But yeah, the point is that there are deals to be found right now, both for rent and sale.