Salt Lake MSA Development Thread - Page 96

jtrent77 · #**1901** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 1:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I had understood that this is where the U.S. troops set up camp after having marched through salt lake city (when the Mormons buried the footings of their temple, and had groomed the ground on temple square to make it look like a cornfield). At least this is what I was told when my stake had a Youth Conference there.

Nope, that would be Camp Floyd just south of where modern day Cedar Fort is--kind of the general area as Camp Williams, but Camp Williams was set up by Utah, as the camp for the National Guard--so associated with the Fed Gov't, but not really associated with the Utah War. Camp Williams was created in 1928--LONG after the Utah War.

"Utah's first militia was called the Nauvoo Legion after a similar organization in Illinois. Abolished by the Edmunds-Tucker Act in l887, the militia was revived in 1894 as the Utah National Guard. The state established a camp for the guard in 1928, named in honor of Brigadier General W. G. Williams." -- "The Defense Industry of Utah" by Thomas G. Alexander and Rick J. Fish

urbanboy · #**1902** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 1:23 AM**

Thank you for the clarification. As long as it's the general area, I still think this area is a historically appropriate location.

jtrent77 · #**1903** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanboy

Thank you for the clarification. As long as it's the general area, I still think this area is a historically appropriate location.

Maybe they should move it to where Camp Floyd was--that would really put your knickers in a twist since it is south west of Eagle Mountain, your most favorite city in Utah, and thus could spur growth on the west side of Utah Lake.

As far as Trax going there, I think that would be great, but knowing the Feds...I doubt it. There are exits in DC for the CIA (Langley) and the NSA that are available to employees only--and they aren't exactly friendly towards non-employees. Thus to have a trax stop there might just flip someone's lid haha (hopefully they prove me wrong, just don't hold your breath).

shakman · #**1904** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 3:56 PM**

It could happen. Perhaps a station nearby with shuttle service?

There is a major transit hub, above ground, and an underground subway station next to the Pentagon. Though I am sure the station is exponentially reinforced... ...and plenty of "eyes" watching.

cololi · #**1905** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 6:29 PM**

I don't see a light rail line happening there unless Bluffdale decides to get on board with different land use plans. It could be pretty easy to extend the South Jordan line, but there needs to be more ridership base than this spy center. There are many more places that have higher employment numbers and higher residential densities where it makes more sense to put a line, like Fort Union, 4700 S on the W side, International Center, perhaps even the Millrock area, etc. maybe in 50 plus years, but not in immediate or intermediate time frames. It will be interesting to see what happens when the transit portion of the sales tax in SLCO has paid for the existing lines under construction. It could be another major round of transit construction. But, there are a number of other lines on the TIP that would should come before something to Camp Williams.

skyguy414 · #**1906** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 6:35 PM**

There's a D.C. metro station located directly beneath the Pentagon.

The Lehi/Thanksgiving Point Frontrunner station will be located about 2.5 mi from the Camp Williams site. It would be easy just to shuttle peope back and forth.

jtrent77 · #**1907** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 7:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyguy414

There's a D.C. metro station located directly beneath the Pentagon.

The Lehi/Thanksgiving Point Frontrunner station will be located about 2.5 mi from the Camp Williams site. It would be easy just to shuttle peope back and forth.

The Pentagon metro stop was established LONG before 9/11 the world has changed quite a bit since then. And the Pentagon being the center of all commuting in the DC area has been that way for a long time.

After 9/11 the stop was shut down completely--only people allowed off the trains were those that worked there. Since then security has been beefed up quite a bit.

I see a shuttle service at another stop a more likely scenario than an actual stop at Camp Williams

UTPlanner · #**1908** Posted **Dec 22, 2009, 10:36 PM**

The pentagon also has 20,000+ civilian and military employees.

shakman · #**1909** Posted **Dec 23, 2009, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrent77

The Pentagon metro stop was established LONG before 9/11 the world has changed quite a bit since then. And the Pentagon being the center of all commuting in the DC area has been that way for a long time.

After 9/11 the stop was shut down completely--only people allowed off the trains were those that worked there. Since then security has been beefed up quite a bit.

I see a shuttle service at another stop a more likely scenario than an actual stop at Camp Williams

Anyone is allowed since it is a transfer station between two lines and there is also a major bus transit center above the station. There is a secured exit for those who work inside the Pentagon.

Shuttles to and from Camp Williams would work. I have seen other scenarios as such work just fine.

jtrent77 · #**1910** Posted **Dec 23, 2009, 2:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakman

Anyone is allowed since it is a transfer station between two lines and there is also a major bus transit center above the station. There is a secured exit for those who work inside the Pentagon.

Shuttles to and from Camp Williams would work. I have seen other scenarios as such work just fine.

Anyone is allowed now, but after 9/11 only employees at the Pentagon were allowed off for about two months and they moved all buses to Pentagon City--I live practically next to the Pentagon, so I do realize it is the center of all mass transit for the D.C. area.

Orlando · #**1911** Posted **Dec 23, 2009, 4:42 PM**

I always understood that during the Utah war, the federal army stayed at where Fort Douglas is, near the mouth of emigration canyon and overlooking downtown salt lake city. Where is Camp Floyd? never heard of it. I'm pretty sure they stayed at where Fort Douglas is up by the U.

Btw, what if the NSA center was built in Research Park next to Fort Douglas? It would already fit in with all of the office buildings up there, and it's by an existing federal military site, and their is already a lot of existing road and other infrastructure there. just wondering, what if..

shakman · #**1912** Posted **Dec 23, 2009, 7:49 PM**

Fort Douglas is next to (east and north of) the University of Utah.

Never knew there was a Utah War. I guess it was more of a dispute over land?

jtrent77 · #**1913** Posted **Dec 23, 2009, 10:57 PM**

The Utah War was where the US Gov't became suspicious of the Mormon settlers in the Utah Territory. Troops were sent out to see what kind of disturbances they might be causing. As you might expect, they came to find that the Mormons weren't out to get anyone and thus there was no actual fighting, more of just the "army" coming and camping out in Utah for a while and the Mormons being nervous at first, but in the end, nothing really happened.

As far as the ties to Fort Douglas, it may have been there at the time, but the main troops that were sent for the Utah War went on to build Camp Floyd, which, as mentioned before, isn't too far from where present day Eagle Mountain and Cedar Fort are. Type in Camp Floyd, Utah into google maps and it will show you the exact location.

millhouse · #**1914** Posted **Dec 23, 2009, 10:59 PM**

The requirements for the project were two intersecting power grids. Hence the current location at camp williams.

urbanboy · #**1915** Posted **Dec 24, 2009, 12:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrent77

The Utah War was where the US Gov't became suspicious of the Mormon settlers in the Utah Territory. Troops were sent out to see what kind of disturbances they might be causing. As you might expect, they came to find that the Mormons weren't out to get anyone and thus there was no actual fighting, more of just the "army" coming and camping out in Utah for a while and the Mormons being nervous at first, but in the end, nothing really happened.

As far as the ties to Fort Douglas, it may have been there at the time, but the main troops that were sent for the Utah War went on to build Camp Floyd, which, as mentioned before, isn't too far from where present day Eagle Mountain and Cedar Fort are. Type in Camp Floyd, Utah into google maps and it will show you the exact location.

This is not entirely true: The massacre at Mountain Meadow, aka Mountain Meadows Massacre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_meadow_massacre

wrendog · #**1916** Posted **Dec 24, 2009, 5:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanboy

This is not entirely true: The massacre at Mountain Meadow, aka Mountain Meadows Massacre: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_meadow_massacre

Sigh. Here we go again. I thought we were past this.

i-215 · #**1917** Posted **Dec 24, 2009, 6:34 AM**

The Mountain Meadows Massacre was really, really bad. The Mormons were really, really wrong. And those involved are probably really, really sorry.

Resolved +1

shakman · #**1918** Posted **Dec 24, 2009, 2:56 PM**

Whom so ever fault is was, learn from history and move on.

Sight-Seer · #**1919** Posted **Dec 24, 2009, 3:26 PM**

It's an odd thing about history. It just won't go away.

jtrent77 · #**1920** Posted **Dec 24, 2009, 3:40 PM**

The Mountain Meadows Massacre and the Utah War were two separate events. In fact, the MMM occurred in September of 1857 with the soldiers for the Utah War arriving in May of 1857. Thus, the soldiers were not sent in response to the MMM.

Further, the Utah War was "fought" in the SLC area, whereas MMM was down near Cedar City, a distance of over 300 miles.

Additionally, the MMM didn't involve US soldiers at all. A caravan of westward pilgrims/pioneers (that were not Mormon) were supposedly making statements that angered some of the local Mormon population that they (the non-Mormons) were going through. The Mormons admittedly way over reacted which resulted in the massacre. But to say that somehow this was related to the Utah War would not be accurate. While they occurred in the same year, they were completely unrelated events.